WAG upgrading L5 to L8-how hard is it?

[proudmomof3]

When I picked up DD from training two days ago, I had a chat with a coach who is new to our gym. He is very nice and experienced. I talked with him about many "gymnastics" things. There was something he told me I was really curious about so I thought I am going to share it and ask you.

For me, it was always totally clear that making it to Level5 is quite easy. DD is a pretty fast learner and I always thought the first 5 Levels are "a breeze", but then it gets a lot harder and you must be very tough to get to L8 or so.

But the coach told me something different that was pretty new to me.

In his opinion, it is a lot easiser to get from L5 to L8 than from scratch to L5. Of course, the L5 skills should be done with good form and technique. If the gymnast is strong and flexible too, then L8 is not a milestone away. He said that skills like free hips to handstands, casts handstands in general, front tumbling combinations or layout and full twists need practice of course, but in his opinion, a good Level 5 gymnast could make it to Level8 in two years. After that it gets harder he said, although some kids seem to just pick up skills quickly, but many repeat L8 or so.

What is your opinion on this?

 

[wallinbl]

DD skipped L5, and has gone from L4 (old L5) to L8 in two years (she'll be in L8 this January). Most of her L8 team is in the same situation, and many of the girls she sees at meets around the state are in that situation. Some of them will not make it to L8, I supposed, but most were strong L7's last year, so barring injury or some other frustration, most will have made that journey in two years.

I don't know enough to comment on the why or the technical stuff regarding the transition.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

DD went from old L5 to L8 in two years as well.

I'd say it is very possible, but not usual...... Depends in is much more than time in the gym and picking up skills quickly. That kind of movement also involves serious commitment, lack of fear, no downtime due to injury, etc.

 

[gracyomalley]

DD was slated to do same - but repeated L7 due to fear. I would say that of her group of young L7 last year it was about 1/3 went to L8 and 2/3 repeated L7 - so in my tiny state sample I'd say 1/3 of kiddos do it in 2, the others 3+ (I'm talking old L5 - so new L4....I guess she is still on target to do old 6/new 5 to L8 in 2 years - unless she quits over whatever the hangup of the week is...). On a side note, because of her fears and her old coaches approach, she will have to put the pedal to the metal to get to L9 without repeating L8 because they never up trained until summer...even when they repeated...so she's learning all her L8 stuff now (has 2/3 already) and new gym does up train all year - I would suspect most kids who make the move quick are at gyms that do.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Two years is very attainable and common. But easy, no.

 

[MaryA]

I think anybody can get stuck at any level on any skill for any reason. You can be going merrily along and then all of a sudden hit a wall... fear, mental block, growth spurt, injury, or any combination of the above. When you see your daughter's teammate repeat due to a skill that was just so easy for your DD, hold on to your hat. Your DD may just be next. I think this sport teaches both gymnasts and parents (and coaches!) to be humble and not to take anything for granted. Talking about what is "hard" and what is "easy" is completely beside the point. If it is hard for your DD, it's hard. It doesn't matter if 99.9% of the other girls get it quickly... it's still hard! You can't say that getting to level 5 was easy for your DD, therefore getting to level 8 will also be easy. She may fight for every skill as an optional. Conversely, she may struggle her way through compuslories only to find optionals much easier. The only "given" in this sport is that there is no "given."

 

[Gymdancer]

You bring up a good point. In the old system, you had to score out of levels 4,5,6 & 7. Now a gymnast can go 4,5, skip 6 with no competition at all, then go 7. So it seems that some in our area went from 4, score out of 5 with mobility score, then skip 6, and go to 7 in a matter of one fall and one spring season. Those gyms used to do a mobility score for old level 6.

So they would definitely have a way to get the girls to level 8 in two years even from level 4. Now, if I have this right, the child would have to be pretty darn good and very fortunate to do all of that without too much difficulty. As Mary A stated so well, there are many factors that come into play that you might never have considered.

My dd worked her tail off to get from old 5 to old 8 in 2 years and a few months since compulsory is fall and optionals is spring. Then, coaching changes, gym change, a freakish injury, and she was in new 8, or as we said, 8 again. It is a very humbling sport. Repeating was one of the best things to happen in 11 years of gymnastics.

 

[Gymdancer]

Now I'm thinking 4 was not required. Is it now?

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Now 4 is required, before it was not. And once a gymnast reaches level 8 or above, the term "repeating" is no longer used. They are called 2nd year level 8's because it's totally common to do more than one year in upper levels and "2nd year" sounds more positive instead of "repeating".

 

[Gymdancer]

Yes, 2nd year. It was definitely not a repeat.

 

[Granny Smith]

I think getting to bare bones L8 would be attainable, but I think it would be much harder to reach the high L8 stuff that includes C skills and Yurchenko vaults in that short period of time. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I guess it would be a case by case basis as to if it is worth the rush to potentially sacrifice good basics and form in order to learn all of the skills to be competitive at that level.

 

[proudmomof3]

I think getting to bare bones L8 would be attainable, but I think it would be much harder to reach the high L8 stuff that includes C skills and Yurchenko vaults in that short period of time. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I guess it would be a case by case basis as to if it is worth the rush to potentially sacrifice good basics and form in order to learn all of the skills to be competitive at that level.

hmm, that sounds pretty realistic and logical!

So L5 compared to an average L8 routines would be:

FX:
RO BH BT : RO BH BL/ FULL TWIST
FH FH, running FT : FH FL FT

BB:
BH : BH Series
Handstand Dismount : RO BT Dismount
Split Leap : 180 degree Split Leap

UB:
Kip, Cast, Front Hip Circle, Squat On, Kip, Baby Giant, Tap Swing
:
Kip, half pirouette, kip cast handstand, toe on to handstand, free hip to handstand, squat on, giant giant, flyaway

VT:
FH : Yuri or Tsuk

Am I right with this?
Sounds like the hardest thing would be bars?

I don't know, but if your RO BH BT is really good, going to Layout ususally comes quickly, doesn't it? Same with Layout to full...

I mean, if you have a good L5 gymnast, with the strength and flexibility of a L8- could it be done in 2 years?

 

[Granny Smith]

I would tend to think that a tuck to layout on floor isn't much of a transition, but I would never make that same statement once you talk about twisting. My dd hit a huge road block once twisting entered the picture. She made it through but it was not easy at all. In the end, she has never competed a full on floor in a routine, never. To compensate she ended up doing 2 double salto passes at 8, one including a half punch front (this was her 2nd yr of 8). I still think she got dinged on floor at States because she didn't have a twist her 1st yr when she competed FHS-FLO-FP & BHS-BLO-BT. Bars may seem hard and I'm sure it is, but I think the scariest transition from 7 to 8 and I can't even image from 5 to 8 is vault. Vault is a huge transition from FHS to Tsuk or Yurchenko. I can only speak of the transition for the Yurchenko and it literally took a good year to get that vault down to being consistent at meets and no fear of her killing herself.

A solid 8 who would compete at Regionals would now be throwing Yurchenko Pike, doing DB off of bars and hitting HS on every skill. For floor they would definitely have some C dance and a back 1.5 or double twist or front full (basically I'm getting at a C acro). On beam you will see BT probably in combination with a split jump. I would think you would see layout or twisting dismount. Basically what you listed, to me, looks like entry routines at 8. Yes, the gymnast would be able to say they are 8, but it would be a very difficult time making it to Regionals with basic routines like listed above.

And, if you have a young gymnast who is making this jump from 5 to 8, they will probably have very stiff competition from girls who are cruising through the levels to Hopes. If this is an older gymnast, they will have a better chance as success with the jump because there are plenty of girls who get to 8 and basically that is as high as they go. Some linger at 8 for a few yrs because some just don't like to do the release on bars (which is required at 9). The younger ones are just breezing through.

 

[proudmomof3]

A solid 8 who would compete at Regionals would now be throwing Yurchenko Pike, doing DB off of bars and hitting HS on every skill. For floor they would definitely have some C dance and a back 1.5 or double twist or front full (basically I'm getting at a C acro). On beam you will see BT probably in combination with a split jump. I would think you would see layout or twisting dismount. Basically what you listed, to me, looks like entry routines at 8. Yes, the gymnast would be able to say they are 8, but it would be a very difficult time making it to Regionals with basic routines like listed above.
.

Thank you for that. I didn't know that double twists, front twisting or double backs off bars were even allowed at L8 and I totally agree that just two years for achieving this is a very narrow time frame!

So you also think it might be possible in two years to get to the "entry routines of L8 (like what I wrote above9" but being a good or outstanding L8 is much harder?

 

[gymgal]

A solid 8 who would compete at Regionals would now be throwing Yurchenko Pike, doing DB off of bars and hitting HS on every skill. For floor they would definitely have some C dance and a back 1.5 or double twist or front full (basically I'm getting at a C acro). On beam you will see BT probably in combination with a split jump. I would think you would see layout or twisting dismount. Basically what you listed, to me, looks like entry routines at 8. Yes, the gymnast would be able to say they are 8, but it would be a very difficult time making it to Regionals with basic routines like listed above.

This may be true in the up coming years but we certainly didn't see it this year at regionals. About half the girls had a BT (no combo) and/or full dismount. Most were doing bhs-bhs, none did a bhs-lo. For floor, they were all pretty basic. fhs-fp-fp or flo-fp, ro-bhs-full lo. All were doing flipping vts, mostly pikes but some tucks. Bars - only 1/4 did doublebacks. but all had cast HS, clear hip HS. Only a few did high/low transitions (straddle back?) or toe catch. I do think this year was a test year, though - trying to figure out how many gyms were going to push their gymnasts to the max to prepare for 9 vs. doing the bare minimum.

Just to clarify - What exactly does everyone mean by 5-8 in 2 years? Are you talking about a girl who has already competed 5 and will compete 8 in 2 years? because in the new system, that pretty common. Or do you mean that the girl has just competed 4 and will compete 8 in 2 years (meaning combination of compete/score out of 5,6,7)

 

[proudmomof3]

Just to clarify - What exactly does everyone mean by 5-8 in 2 years? Are you talking about a girl who has already competed 5 and will compete 8 in 2 years? because in the new system, that pretty common. Or do you mean that the girl has just competed 4 and will compete 8 in 2 years (meaning combination of compete/score out of 5,6,7)

First of all, thanks for your opinion.

I and the coach were talking about a gymnast who has all L5 skills.

So

FX: RO BH BT, running front tuck, FH FH, split jump and leap+straddle jump and leap

BB: back handspring stepout, full turn, split jump, handstand dismount

UB: Kip, cast to horizontal, baby free hip, jump to high bar, long hang kip, baby giant, tuck dismount

VT: FH

He said that if you have these skills solidly, going to L8 takes about 2 years.

 

[wallinbl]

all had cast HS, clear hip HS

This was true at L7 here.

Just to clarify - What exactly does everyone mean by 5-8 in 2 years? Are you talking about a girl who has already competed 5 and will compete 8 in 2 years? because in the new system, that pretty common. Or do you mean that the girl has just competed 4 and will compete 8 in 2 years (meaning combination of compete/score out of 5,6,7)

L4, score out of L5, then 1 year L7, then L8.
or under the old numbers:
L5, score out of L6, then L7, then L8.

 

[3rd_time_around]

My dd skipped lvl 7 and did 8, then right to 9. When she was lvl 8, she did bt on beam, dbl back dismounts from bars, dbl twisting on floor. But the next year bt on beam and dbl backs on bars were not allowed. I think they've gone back to allowing them with the new alignment, though. Lvl 5 is NOT a breeze. It is often the level that makes or breaks a gymnast. That bwo gets a lot of girls who never had trouble before. Same with the flyaway. Don't be too ready to rush her through, she needs the building blocks that lower levels teach. But it not uncommon to do it in 2 years.

 

[Gymdancer]

Gym gal, we saw the same as you at regionals. Even had some high scoring gymnasts with back walkover, Bhs combination on beam. Since dd competed old 8 then new 8, we saw those c skills kick in, but there were still many girls competing basic 8 routines like in old 8.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

A double back dismount will score exactly the same as a layout, unless one is performed better. Same with all the rest of the new allowable C's. Sometimes simple is better....