Parents Use of time outs as punishment

[lettrich]

What is your gyms policy on dealing with children who have fears? My daughter tends to be fearful especially learning new skills. It takes her longer than most to learn new things because of her fears. The beginning of the summer it was BHS on beam and cast hand stands. Now she has those but is afraid of Cartwheel/back tuck dismounts. She balks and stands near the end of the beam, attempting them but not connecting them. When she balks she is given physical punishment - the other day it was 500 frog jumps - they stopped her after 100 & then had her go to a "time out" for about 10 minutes. Last night same thing, except because I was present watching (we are only allowed to observe last 15 min) it was 50 frog jumps and no time out. Any advice on how she should concur her fears? Is this the right approach in dealing with fears?

 

[skschlag]

I guess, imo, a fear should not be punished. That won't get to the root of the fear, but create more fear in that she is now afraid of the skill and of the punishment. This could make her more anxious about it all. I am not sure what to do about the fears, but one of the wonderful coaches here will have some ideas!

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Not a fan of using any sort of punishment for fear issues -- but then, as a rule I don't like punishment for anything other than behavioral issues.

 

[KnowNuthin]

Your gym's policy doesn't sound too different than my daughter's gym's policy. The head coach seems to subscribe to the philosophy of "I want you more afraid of me than the skill you're attempting."

I, personally, would prefer a more nurturing approach and do believe that one can achieve good results that way.

That being said, our gym does produce some very skilled gymnasts, e.g. two of our L10s qualified to Nationals and placed on the podium, so there's no doubt that these methods yield results, albeit at the expense of driving some kids out.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Would never punish a child for fear, fear is very really very valid and very important. Coaches often forget that fear is good in gym astics, if kids can learn to work with their fear it can really benefit them.

Fear is what stops the, from walking in the gym and just trying that double back salto that they think they can do but aren't ready for and breaking their neck. Fear also helps them to know when they aren't physically or mentally ready for a skill.

It's possible the time out wasn't a time out as such but just a walk away and and have a breather, have a think about it and visualise the skill, then come back and try it.

 

[gymgal]

I am fine with a "time out" if it is for regrouping, calming down, visualizing. Unfortunately, it usually is not presented that way, by parents, coaches, or teachers.

As for excessive conditioning for punishment for fears, I dont think it works any better than other, more neutral, strategies and it really creates the potential for a negative relationship with coach/gymnast. I have seen it first hand in other sports.

My take on it is that the gymnast has to work through it in her own time. Wanting to compete at that next level is all the motivation she really needs, and maybe that means she repeats levels. The parents and the coaches have to be ok with that. And they also have to not view it as a sign of failure on their or the gymnast's part. I think coaches often internalize an athlete's fear as "s/he doesn't trust me enough to believe me when I say she is ready for the next step" and that can be very frustrating. I have this conversation with dd all the time - "the coaches wouldn't let you do it if they didn't think you were ready for it".

Having said all that, negative "teen" attitudes are often in the mix and if the gymnast is being disrespectful, I have nothing against punishing with conditioning, as long as it is made clear the punishment is for the attitude, not the fear. Many gymnasts fail to convey this part to parents and so the parents only hear that they are being punished for their fears. Or coaches don't convey it properly to the gymnast, who misinterprets it. Op, mot saying this is what happened to your dd. Just speaking in generalities.

 

[Nico]

Personaly I prefer a positive approach, and I think that puniching isn't a way to work on fears. I think that some coaches just punish because they don't know how to handle the problem presented.
I think that most of the time when dealing with fears, a coach should go back one or more steps in the build up to the particular skill, spot a lot, help a lot, try to introduce visualising, etc.
I know working with children with fears can be very frustrating though. Try to see it as a challange. In this case you're working on the physical aspects but mental aspects...

 

[lettrich]

It would be great if they spotted her but they do not believe in spotting on beam or floor. They will stand near the beam but never spot. I guess the philosophy is if they cant do it on their own, they shouldnt be spotted. Another girl that day was placed in a time out for not doing fly-aways.

 

[bogwoppit]

I do not agree with punishments for anything other than bad behaviour. Plus I do not like the idea of conditioning as punishment for anything.

Punishment like that for fear will make her not want to go to gym. Why would that work?

Dealing with fear is a big deal. The best approach is usually to take them back a ffew steps and let them find where they are comfortable and just keep working at that level until they are ready to move on. Not to work on the skill for too long and not to leave them standing for ages thinking about the skill

 

[level9mom]

Ours run stairs or do other strength and conditioning if they consistently refuse to do a skill. One time I had to come to the gym and basically order my dd to do her bhsbhs on beam because the coach was totally fed up with her. This was after weeks of drama and refusal and it was the night before a meet. I told her do it or you quit. I hated it but she did the skill and went on to compete it the next day. We laugh about it now but it wasn't too funny at the time.

 

[cbifoja]

I don't think our gym has a "policy" on something like that. But we are a small gym so the coaches have the resources to do more one on one work with fearful gymnasts. But from what I've seen, the coaches work with them, back them up to the point of comfort and try to start forward, give them the gift of space from the skill until they are ready to try again.

But I agree with so many...punishing a fear seems counterproductive.

 

[flippingtogether]

Our gym does not punish, but instead has the approach to take a step back and get the gymnast comfortable at the skill earlier, and work there over and over until the kid is ready to again move forward.

And I just saw this approach work with my own DD, as she has had a couple of fears develop. One was the floor FH- FT. She started getting it months ago, but then started balking. The coaches said leave it, and tell us when you are ready. So now for the past months, she's been working on all the skills leading up to that but not touching that one 'scary' skill. Not touching it at all, no discussion about it with anyone. And then just the other day she walked into the gym and said she was ready to try again. She started on tumble track, and moved to floor with extra mat when coach asked, and she said ok. A half dozen passes later, she did it on the floor no extra mats, and was comfortable. Later she told me it was fun - when just a few months ago she froze.

All in their own time seems to be a good approach for some (maybe many?). She would have hated to be forced to do the pass before she was mentally ready. And I cannot imagine punishment would work on her.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Ours run stairs or do other strength and conditioning if they consistently refuse to do a skill. One time I had to come to the gym and basically order my dd to do her bhsbhs on beam because the coach was totally fed up with her. This was after weeks of drama and refusal and it was the night before a meet. I told her do it or you quit. I hated it but she did the skill and went on to compete it the next day. We laugh about it now but it wasn't too funny at the time.

That was incredibly (and in my opinion unnecessarily) risky. The fact that it happened to pay off on this occasion does not mean it was a good idea, and quite honestly if any parent were to do this at my gym I would probably forbid them from ever setting foot in the gym during practice again.


Here's the thing; many coaches (and parents) use these sorts of methods, because they think it works. And on very rare occasions it does work in the short term. But trying to scare a kid into doing a skill will just make them hate and fear the skill more, and if it continues she'll probably end up dreading the event, and even dreading going into gym at all.

This is the last thing that any coach should want.

On a very few occasions, it works, but far more often it will make the kid want to quit. It's not worth the risk; it's far better to simply be patient, take the kid back to basics, and work back up to the skill. If that means it takes another several months for her to relearn a skill that she already had, so be it. That's better than the alternative.

 

[Seeker]

Punishing fear seems counter-intuitive to me...just doesn't seem that that would ever work. Our coaches do not punish for that, they just move the skill back a few steps and re-work the skill. They don't want the girls to wait-wait-wait before they'll attempt a skill because they believe that can induce fears, so if they see that they just step back and build up again.

Only time-outs I have ever seen is for disruptive behavior, but it is generally the younger groups where that is an issue. We have 2 littles that really cannot stop talking!

 

[gymmomtoo]

Our coaches use time-outs, but I don't think they use them as punishment--although perhaps the girls take it that way. The coaches just know the girls having an issue need a break from it--getting off the floor to collect their thoughts and mentally get their head back in the game.

Isn't that what a timeout is always supposed to be--time out of the activity to think about actions and decide a better way.

 

[bogwoppit]

I think time outs are fine, kids sometimes need a mental break. It is the punitive use of conditioning (500 frog jumps in this case) that really ticks me off.

 

[Ingwe]

My legs and especially knees are killing me just thinking about 500 frog jumps. UGH!!

I also think that punishing a kid with conditioning does not work. My Dd's old gym used this method and honestly, I think (in my Dd's case) it did more damage then good. Her current gym uses a different approach which IMO works much better.

 

[mommyof1]

I do not like the use of conditioning for punishment (except for refusing to condition or for obvious slacking during conditioning--as in, you didn't do it right the first time so do it over). I also don't like to see the kids get punished for fear or for poor performance. My daughter occasionally gets frog jumps for not applying corrections. She thinks she is applying the correction but doesn't really understand what she is supposed to do. The coach thinks she is not listening, gets frustrated, and punishes her. My daughter still doesn't understand the correction, the skill does not improve, and my daughter comes home complaining that the coach is mean. The whole process is entirely counterproductive and undermines my daughter's trust in her coach.

 

[level9mom]

Nobody wants gymnasts to be
Punished for fear, I get that. I'm not proud of what I did but it was one time in 7 years. But do you really want to wait months for a gymnast to do a back walkover on beam? Is it better to be so patient the gymnast takes herself out of contention at meets? This is a sport. My dd was totally capable of doing her skill, she was just afraid of it. I even took her to a sports psychologist. But I also knew she would be even more devastated of she did not compete the skill.

 

[Canadian_gym_mom]

Dds coaches have worked with her to help her realize when she needs to give herself a time out. It's not meant to be punitive, just to let her go get a drink, collect herself and regain composure or focus. She has been working through her fears and this seems to be something that helps. Taking a step back.

After seeing how much it hurts her to try and get past the mental part of gym, I can't imagine punishing her for being afraid. The small bit of CGM inside me sometimes thinks there should be a consequence for not even trying the skill once, but knowing how badly she wants it, and seeing the struggle and anguish on her face, I know that punishing her is not the answer.

They go back a step in the skill, whether its getting a spot on a skill, going back to strap bar or lower beam or floor line or whatever.