Vault types

[ryantroop]

While I probably should have posted this in the coaches forum, I want to leave it open to everyone.

While I understand that limiting yourself by taking away certain skills is an exercise in futility, I wanted some opinions on this.

Are yurchenko vaults necessary to teach?

As I understsand it, vaulters at higher levels need to vault from 2 different categories. Why don't we see more front entry vaults or side entry vaults? Is it an aestetic or a difficulty?

Any thoughts?

 

[T.Gymnastics]

Well i dont like vault at all but I feel like a yurchenko has more room for error. One of our eights and two of our nines yurchenko vault. we train all three entries though. If it was left up to me i would always front entry becuase to me it is much easier to fronthandspring front, than to tsuk. however i feel since eventually i might need two i would side and front, also because it could be something new for the judges. im only a level 7 gymnast though and i do not know much else. hope it helped though =]

 

[ryantroop]

Interesting.. do your coaches allow you to pick which vault you want to pursue or do they "tell" you which to work on?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I think it depends on the gymnast. If you have a gymnast who either doesn't have a strong handspring front or twists the wrong way for a kaz but is a strong tumbler, the Yurchenko can be worth teaching. I've met some coaches who say its easier to train than a tsuk, though I find that hard to swallow.

One of my boys and one of my girls is working on a yurchenko, but none of my kids has competed one to date.

 

[gymdog]

In terms of general vaulting trends for girls, it does seem like the power generated by the yurchenko is unequaled by the tsuk, on average. You really don't see girls twisting laid out tsuks much. It's pretty unusual and growing seemingly more and more so. Now this might be a question of how this skill is introduced and developed on the girls side or something, I don't know. My personal general observation is that the tsuk is useful earlier on because it's a lower "stress" entry the gymnast can learn flipping from. Some girls, if they want a 10.0 SV vault for L10/NCAA level competition, will have to move to yurchenkos. In general most coaches seem to still be introducing the tsuk, at least in the drill portion of early optional vaulting. I see little reason to never introduce it - that would be shortsighted, because it's usually much easier to get the kid flipping out of, if not doing it terribly well. Lacking reference base could lead to poor confidence in the yurchenko development. Also, "tsuk style" flipping drills tend to be easier to set up and do without spotting.

Front vaulting has been relatively highly valued, in the past for girls. But it's less common than the other two, probably largely because of the tendency towards lower back and knee injuries in female gymnasts, and the landing being harder. If any of the three aren't introduced, it's usually this one.

Yurchenkos are getting more common to introduce early. Ideally lots of drill work for pre-optional groups. I don't necessarily think it's "easier" to train in terms of the entry, but for some girls, the turnover and the landing, definitely. Some girls just are not generating the kind of power from a forward hurdle they are from a roundoff, and that makes sense to some extent. Of course L9 vault table is changing too - previously it was the same as L10, now different. So the vaulting situations at the higher levels should be a little different. Next cycle there looks to be some potential changes (proposals) to the vaulting structure across all levels.

 

[ryantroop]

Front vaulting has been relatively highly valued, in the past for girls. But it's less common than the other two, probably largely because of the tendency towards lower back and knee injuries in female gymnasts, and the landing being harder. If any of the three aren't introduced, it's usually this one.

So.. for the sake of argument, if a coach were to (even though they should any way - RIGHT coaches?) focus on hamstring conditioning to support female gymnast's ACL's, would it be worth it then, in your opinion?

I suppose Im asking because my background as a highschool coach has pretty much limited my exposure to yurchenko vaults. I know how to teach them. I know the progressions, and I know how to evaluate their safety. I have, however, never taught one on my own (from scratch).

I plan on moving into USAG or NCAA at some point, and Im trying to figure out if I really REALLY need a major refresher on it, or if I could get away with focusing on my strengths...

I do know that if I go into NCAA I will need to learn board placements, but that's sort of moot since most of the girls will know that sort of stuff by the time they walk in the gym, and the ones that dont I can figure out through trial and error (to some degree).


And GT, Tsuk fulls are just as fun as Kaz's. Just require a lot more twitch... Personally, I think they are more impressive to see too, when done right.

 

[socko]

My daughter did a Tsuk as a Level 8 then moved on to the Yurchenko. There was a period od time where she attempted (notice I never say "did") a half on/half off and that was a disaster. Her Yurchenko layout always scores well although she twists as well . She is currently working the Yurchenko 2/1 and that's looking decent . It seems to me that with a Yurchenko , there's more room for progression versus the Tsuk.

 

[gymdog]

So.. for the sake of argument, if a coach were to (even though they should any way - RIGHT coaches?) focus on hamstring conditioning to support female gymnast's ACL's, would it be worth it then, in your opinion?

Ummm...I honestly don't know. Couldn't hurt but I'm not the best person to ask I guess. To be honest it can be a big problem with the landing on twisting vaults as well. I think for many girls the lower back stress relative to the other entries could be a bigger issue. But again that's a problem with many skills, and on the other hand the yurchenko tends to be more of a wrist issue (something to keep in mind).

I don't know if you need a major refresher, but the entry is important. Board placement is not too big an issue to figure out in my opinion. We kept the board relatively similar anyway. Pulled it in a little. My coaches tended to keep the board relatively close even for front entry vaults though, so I guess that would have to be factored in. My standard check was always three of my feet to the actual board (not the zone).

 

[ryantroop]

I keep the board close too, except for handsprings for less experienced gymnasts.


I suppose HS front 1/2s would be a good way to go..

Ahh well.. just speculative anyway.. It was fun to think about it.

Thanks for the discussion


Ryan

 

[T.Gymnastics]

Interesting.. do your coaches allow you to pick which vault you want to pursue or do they "tell" you which to work on?

My coach baisically tells us what to work on. but makes sure we get a variety. i have done tsuks and fronthandspring fronts. and yurchenko drills

 

[BlairBob]

A lot of yurchenko drills can be introduced in the developmental levels. Simple things like RO onto board progressions

I heard a simple statement regarding front hand, tsuk or yurchenko:

good clean round off > yurchenko

not so clean round off > tsuk ( which still needs a good FHS )

powerful front tumbler > hand front, etc

kaz is probably in there somewhere besides the the weird front 1/2 on vaults, etc

all the value seems to be going towards the yurchenko though.

 

[Itstrueimagymnast]

Well, I am level 5 right now and only done front handspring vaults, but i am learning yerchenkos. The best drill is to roundoff on the floor and backhandsping on a box. Also yerchenkos are way easir if you dont back tuck because you can see your hands and push off if you see you stomach hitting the vault.