WAG Why is chinese practice so cruel?

[sportymom]

I am pretty sure all of you know the cruel gymnastics training clips of chinese gymnastics, where children are literally tortured.

Of course, in higher Level gymnastics, there is a lot of hard work and tears and the coaches need to be strict and push their gymnasts in some points...but this is pure cruelty.

I don't know, but when I watch them "stretching" the children and they are full of tears and when they cry or make a mistake they get hit, push off the beam etc...I am wondering if chinese coaches have feelings. It seems like "bending and get famous, or breaking" - mentally and physically.

China has such a different system all in all, so I guess this sort of discipline is just like a "tradition".

But they still aren't better than the US gymnasts? I bet there are not such fun things like pink and glittery grip bags or laughing at practice, sleepovers... just really cruel hard life without parents and joy.

Why is China still doing that if it doesn't make them better than the US and they don't train in that horrible way?

 

[Sari]

Whenever we were complaining about conditioning at our annual training camp, our coaches would show us those horrible video clips. And man, did it work to restore our gratefulness towards not having to train like that!

China, in general, is a cruel country, one party system and all (I could go on about this for hours, I did a long presentation on China in 12th grade). I honestly think that only translates into their sports programmes. Most Chinese gymnasts are actually taken from their (oftentimes poor and rural) homes and forced to live at the gym, sometimes sleeping in their gym clothes, multiple children in one bed, from a very young age. One less mouth to feed, especially if the family hasn't followed the only child policy and has to deal with the consequences. That's horrible to even think about, and I'm glad it doesn't happen in democracies!

And like you said, it's also a habit. They've always trained this way, and it's produced lots of Olympic gymnasts, so why bother changing the system?

 

[profmom]

Whoa, a LOT of stereotyping going on here! I am sure that the entire country of China, with its more than 1.35 billion people, has good and bad gyms, just as every other country with an Olympic-oriented gymnastics program. I am equally sure that a Chinese do-gooder could put together some video clips of training in US gyms and tell a whole story about why US training is so cruel and heartless because of capitalism. I also wouldn't want to generalize about training in another European country I won't mention based on the reports of one of our members.

If you want to pick on national programs, I would put far, far higher up on the list than China the countries with women performing Produnova vaults that put their lives at risk.

 

[Sari]

Sorry, my comment was perhaps a bit one-sided but I do think China trains harder than most countries. I've never heard anything to the contrary. If someone has proof of gyms there doing it differently, I'll be happy to stand corrected.

Yikes, Produnova vaults are scary. Definitely agree on that!

 

[Midwestmommy]

It's a different culture. Corporal (physical) punishment is not frowned upon in the same way as it is in many other cultures. That is true in family life as well as institutional organizations, it's not unique to gymnastics in China. The cultural norms are different. Not so different from the shock of getting swatted in the back of the head in Iran by an old lady in the park (a stranger) if you accidentally let your ankles show when you are chilling out on a park bench.

The gymnastics system in China has one job and one job only, to develop athletes to compete and represent China in international competitions. They are not so concerned with children's human rights, training too hard too young, injuries, and collateral damage to those who don't make it (and even those who do) as some other societies. For example, presumably the U.S. Not something we want to emulate, that's for sure. At last not in my opinion.

 

[Midwestmommy]

This thread brought to mind an article I read in Newsweek earlier this year regarding the history of the one-child policy. Here's the link:

http://www.newsweek.com/2014/01/24/one-child-policy-one-big-problem-china-245118.html

 

[profmom]

I am confused. Aren't you the same poster who was complaining a few days ago that USAG doesn't do squat to protect young athletes from overtraining?

I am not a complete cultural relativist, but I caution folks to be careful about making vast generalizations about national culture. China is composed of many different regions and ethnicities with deeply rooted cultural beliefs and practices that pre-date Mao and the communist revolution.

I don't think most Americans would like to hear what citizens of other countries would say about "American sports culture."

 

[wheezy]

US training is Child Centered. High value for the child 'happiness'
Chinese is Country centered....less value on the child's 'happiness'.
Many countries think that the US training is too 'feel good'.
I am happy I am in this country.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I am confused. Aren't you the same poster who was complaining a few days ago that USAG doesn't do squat to protect young athletes from overtraining?

I never said "doesn't do squat" or anything like that. I posted in the context of very young college commits, which I think is not a good trend for many reasons. I think we do need to be concerned about pressure on young children to put in more hours, very young, and need to understand more about injuries. Sorry if you interpret that as complaining or took it personally. Keep in mind my kid is also a gymnast and loves the sport, and we pay for it and drive her around and are super happy with her current coaches and gym.

That doesn't mean I feel the need to put my head in the sand. I enjoy learning, getting information, and hearing about good things that are happening. I don't buy much don't much into unsubstantiated rumors, or "trust us blindly because we know best and you are stupid." Always been a rebel in that way.

Or that we just should not care about injury rates because the data isn't readily available.

Hard questions should always be asked, and the impact of gymnastics trends on elementary age children should always be considered. Female gymnastics trains elementary kids harder than any other sport in the U.S. that I can think of. In the US as a society we understand the obligation to protect young children. I have no problem with getting "speared" for bringing up tough issues and asking hard questions..... Daring to do so can you get blasted on this board, I'm kind of kind used to it and don't mind. Mostly makes me chuckle.

Folks who have studied in China, been to China, have good friends from or in China know that the culture there has many differences to US. culture. Nor is it static, there are things changing there, some slowly and some more quickly. Yes, you are right, is a large country with many cultures and languages. That doesn't belie the fact though that there are a lot more limitations on "freedoms" there are are definitely some different cultural norms (and yes those norms vary some in different provinces etc.).

 

[Midwestmommy]

Speaking of cultural stereotypes and differences:

Ever been shopping in China? For a typical midwesterner......being 1) careful with money and never like feeling "ripped off" and 2) uncomfortable with price haggling in public

Shopping in China is about as comfortable as a sharp rock in the shoe.....

 

[sportymom]

Thank you all for your input!

I am from Spain, I travelled a lot when I was younger and we still do. I always vistied gyms in the different countries, so I do have comparisons.
Of course I know, there are a lot more countries who have really cruel training methods. Like russian rhythmic gymnasts....poor kids!

I have been to a lot of countries in Asia. They definitely have a very different view about education and discipline than in the US or other western countries.
I saw some really cruel stuff, exactly like @Sari mentioned!

Of course, if you just film the hard conditioning of girls training in the US, there could also be some "curel looking" things... but hey, nothing compared to China or Romania!

Kids as young as 4 live in the gym, 1000s of miles away from their parents, they train sooo hard, are hit etc.

I was just wondering >why< they are still doing it, because I am sure all the chinese coaches know, that in the US we don't have those cruel methods!

 

[wallinbl]

China is a very different culture than the West, and it's difficult to get your mind around the differences and how they impact life there. I'm not saying everything they do is correct and kosher, but it's not particularly appropriate to judge it all from the perspective of how "we" do things. Separating out individual things from the overall culture certainly makes them look even worse.

Speaking of cultural stereotypes and differences:

Ever been shopping in China? For a typical midwesterner......being 1) careful with money and never like feeling "ripped off" and 2) uncomfortable with price haggling in public

Shopping in China is about as comfortable as a sharp rock in the shoe.....

Nah, it's fun. And when you negotiate well, they congratulate you for it, because they respect you. When you pay too much, sometimes they'll tell you!

 

[Aussie_coach]

If you put a camera inside most gyms in any country who train elites, you could probably find enough footage to shock the world and make it look like a shocking environment. Its what they don't show that is important.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Whoah, where did all these experts in chinese culture and chinese gymnastics training suddenly come from?

 

[gymgal]

I think the OP's point was that if the US produces better athletes without such cruel training, and if all the Chinese gvmt cares about is winning, why would they continue to use training that is not producing the best athletes?

 

[sportymom]

Well, I actually lived in China for 7 months, volunteering and travelling.
I have to say it's true. Kids are either spoiled like hell, which is also not really good and they don't seem lucky, or the parents set very high expectations for them.

Nearly all kids who start gym don't do it as a hobby, but because their parents want then to be Olympians! The kids think that their parents will like them better if they are world champians etc...

I think once they are Elites, there is not so much cruel training anymore.
But before that, oooh boy, have you ever watched a video about that? Kids get hit with canes, pushed off beams and stretched no matter how much they cry - as young as 4, 1000 miles away from their families, just imagine that!

Always brings tears to my eyes!

Anyways, as gymgal said, I was wondering if that cruel training pays off at the end? Not really, because in the US they have even better gymnasts. So why do they do that?

 

[Midwestmommy]

Whoah, where did all these experts in chinese culture and chinese gymnastics training suddenly come from?

Have you been to China? Would love to hear your perspective (or anecdotes)!

 

[Anna's_Mom]

I think the comment that we rarely see the gyms that offer "fun/hobby" programs for children in China is right on. I don't know if they exist, but I do know that all of the film clips and news coverage we see is concentrated on the "produce Olympians" training facilities. I know that our gym (as in, the one my daughter trains with) is much "softer" than even other local gyms because the concentration is not on the competitive teams but the rec program. And our gym is much, much less rigorous than many I hear referenced here. That said, the film clips that we are exposed to are truly heartbreaking.

One of our coaches was a Chinese national champion. She still has a hard time adjusting to the different emphasis and techniques here. She's done several things that team parents object to and I know that I watch closely when she is working with my daughter. Luckily things seem to be easing up the longer she is with us.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Whoah, where did all these experts in chinese culture and chinese gymnastics training suddenly come from?

Have you been to China? Would love to hear your perspective (or anecdotes)!

Nope, never been. I know absolutely nothing about the culture or the training methods.

 

[Midwestmommy]

It's a pretty interesting place to visit. Not the most fun or relaxing place I've ever been, but an interesting experience that's for sure. Gives one a different perspective on things.