WAG Coach Posting Videos of Gymnasts With “Attitude”: Thoughts?

[skschlag]

Here's a little different perspective, and I may be totally off base here (it happens a lot!)

As a parent with a kiddo entering recruiting age, would I want these videos to be posted of my child? They tell kids to be careful what they post on social media, and waht they do that others can post with their name. Could a college recruiter/coach find this? They do some serious digging these days. One coach says he looks, but then he has 2 others that search. If it is between a kid on the attitude cam, and a kid not, could it affect the process?

Again, maybe not, but these are just some thoughts that I had, having listened to a couple of coaches talk about the recruiting process.

 

[Natasha]

I just watched the Attitudecam video posted. I understand that the Attitudecam is only a snapshot, but it is the snapshot that the coach is choosing to publicly post and that snapshot sends a message that if a girl is experiencing any difficult emotion- sad, frustrated, discouraged, pain- it will be re-labeled as 'attitude' and unacceptable AND then posted for the whole world to see. It is really important to learn to identify our emotions and to pay attention to them- our emotions let us know that something is wrong. Discounting those emotions and re-labeling as a bad attitude is very unhealthy for kids development. A very important protective factor for kids to prevent abuse is to be able to 'trust their gut'- that becomes very hard to do when a central adult in your life is sending the message that your emotions are just 'attitude' and then you are shamed publicly.
There may very well be other things about this coach that are absolutely wonderful- but this snapshot does not portray that.

 

[ladybird]

Here's a little different perspective, and I may be totally off base here (it happens a lot!)

As a parent with a kiddo entering recruiting age, would I want these videos to be posted of my child? They tell kids to be careful what they post on social media, and waht they do that others can post with their name. Could a college recruiter/coach find this? They do some serious digging these days. One coach says he looks, but then he has 2 others that search. If it is between a kid on the attitude cam, and a kid not, could it affect the process?

Again, maybe not, but these are just some thoughts that I had, having listened to a couple of coaches talk about the recruiting process.

I was thinking the exact same thing!

 

[triplethreat+1]

But again my larger concern is normalizing and promoting the practice of gymnastics coaches recording children's non-skills related behavior. Posting it on social media is only part of the concern

This is such a good point. I have to say that I had so far thought it wasn't the best call to post publicly, but otherwise we have no idea of the coach-gymnast-parent conversations surrounding these posts so can't judge. This point changed my mind.

If she is talking about this website, no one posted it on here in order to discredit her or in hte hopes that Safesport would see it. If that was actually the case then it would have been reported directly to Safe sport. Her attitude is incredibly self centred.

I agree, I doubt anyone was commenting for that reason, but it does seem like someone is trying to stir things up- the initial post is the only message ever written by the poster and there has been nothing further...

 

[Natasha]

The problem with this kind of behavior is not so much that it is necessarily abusive in the particular situation (I think it sounds very strange but I can buy that some parents and even some gymnasts are “OK“ with this.)

But the problem is that this kind of cavalier attitude towards the privacy and emotions of young people is part of the systemic issues within the sport. (And frankly a systemic issue we are dealing with throughout society with the social media explosion but that’s another discussion.)

Safe practices- which include respecting the privacy and emotions of young people - have to be followed by everyone. It does no good to say “well my coach\gym does not need to follow safe practices because I know they are safe.” It does no good to say “I told my coach it was fine to put my childs uncomfortable moments at gymnastics on social media because it teaches my child a lesson and it doesn’t do them any harm.” Whether or not this is true is irrelevant - the point is that it is not about whether one specific child, coach or gym is ‘safe’ it is about creating a culture of safety that encompasses everyone -even those parents who do not have the information, the strength or the sense to protect their children appropriately.

The point is to make safe practices so universal and common place that they are simply accepted as the norm so that variances from the norm can be seen as the red flags they are.

YES.
So well stated.

 

[JessSyd]

It is really important to learn to identify our emotions and to pay attention to them- our emotions let us know that something is wrong. Discounting those emotions and re-labeling as a bad attitude is very unhealthy for kids development. A very important protective factor for kids to prevent abuse is to be able to 'trust their gut'- that becomes very hard to do when a central adult in your life is sending the message that your emotions are just 'attitude' and then you are shamed publicly.

I am quoting this again because it gets to the core of the problem. Even as an inside joke it is basically a form of gaslighting. It gives girls a powerful reason to conceal fear, pain etc and to see shaming as a natural and appropriate consequence of daring to be anything but continually upbeat.

Can't you take a joke, it's all a bit of fun, and 'don't be a killjoy' are common phrases used to deflect the suggestion that a particular behaviour is not funny and might actually be damaging. They actually mean 'I believe that my desire to keep doing this is more important than taking the time to consider that you may have a point'.

One thing I love about my daughter's coach, who really is a role model for her, is that she encourages the girls to open up about fears, pain and things in their life that are bothering them. She says that once she knows these things she can factor them into her coaching. If she started mocking that, we would leave.

And as a parent, I would not like one of my daughter's role models to be so dismissive of misery, even in a lighthearted way. No matter how caring she was in every other way. And I would not consent for my daughter to be exposed in this manner. It surprises me that parents are cool with it. I wonder if it is another one of those gymnastics things where every parent pretends to be cool with it because the other parents are not reacting so they think it is obviously how things are done.

Even that there is one parent in this thread who seems cool with it, or at least does not think it is worthy of discussion as a potential negative of the sport surprises me.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

^^^^^^^ @JessSyd I can not love this enough

 

[Mish]

@coachp any thoughts on this? I always like to hear your perspective on these types of things.

 

[mommyof1]

Here's a little different perspective, and I may be totally off base here (it happens a lot!)

As a parent with a kiddo entering recruiting age, would I want these videos to be posted of my child? They tell kids to be careful what they post on social media, and waht they do that others can post with their name. Could a college recruiter/coach find this? They do some serious digging these days. One coach says he looks, but then he has 2 others that search. If it is between a kid on the attitude cam, and a kid not, could it affect the process?

Again, maybe not, but these are just some thoughts that I had, having listened to a couple of coaches talk about the recruiting process.

I have not looked at the videos being discussed on this thread and cannot comment on them specifically. But my first thought was essentially the same as yours. I do not want any videos or photos of my child anywhere on the internet, with the exception of more formal materials highlighting her activities and achievements. I am okay with the fact that she's in the background of a newspaper photo from an event she attended. Team photos, coverage of Girl Scout events, announcements of spelling bee wins, coverage of special academic programs in which she participates--all fine. But when she is 20 years old and applying to grad school, I don't want the admissions committee to be able to find videos of her crashing on vault, or having a bad day, or even happily goofing around with her friends at age 7 or 11 or 15. I want her to have control over how she presents herself to the world as an adult, and if someone is out there posting positive or negative videos of her everyday life as a kid she won't have that control. I frequently remind her never to put anything on line that she wouldn't be proud to have appear on the front page of the New York Times. I don't know why anyone else should have the right to put stuff out there that she wouldn't even post herself.

 

[mrsp]

Wow, this is both horrifying and shocking, especially in light of the recent USAG rules regarding filming gymnasts at meets. If this happened to my child, I would be filing an official complaint with SafeSport. Absolutely unacceptable!!!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

^^^^^^ @mommyof1 bravo

 

[3rd_time_around]

Wow, this is both horrifying and shocking, especially in light of the recent USAG rules regarding filming gymnasts at meets. If this happened to my child, I would be filing an official complaint with SafeSport. Absolutely unacceptable!!!

That rule only applies to USAG events like US Classic, not regular club meets. That rule was clarified after it was first posted on USAG's site.

 

[Madden3]

I agree, I doubt anyone was commenting for that reason, but it does seem like someone is trying to stir things up- the initial post is the only message ever written by the poster and there has been nothing further...

Interesting. To me the initial post appeared legit, but you are right, there are reasons to be suspicious about the motivations for the initial post. If anyone is trying to harm this coach for personal reasons they are using an incredibly important issue to further their own personal agenda, and that would be very concerning. I would be interested in hearing from the OP again.

(Possible) poor motives aside, I think bringing up any concerns about appropriate behavior with and around children for rational and reasonable discussion is vital and while something can be talked to death, the last thing we want at this point is to shut down debate on the issue of youth safety, security and happiness (now and in later life.) At the very least, I believe, these discussions help raise awareness. And knowledge and awareness are powerful weapons in the battle to safeguard children.

But it is also important to be open to the idea that most situations have nuances. I can believe this coach is a good person, has good intentions, is respected and beloved, and also think she is doing something harmful by filming the emotional or private moments of the children in her care, and putting them on the internet.

It may not be fair, but in order to make on impact, all the completely innocent people who make up the vast majority of adults who are involved in working with youth have to do their part when it comes to safeguarding. It is not easy, it is not convenient, and it certainly is not fun. But this is where we are at.

 

[SpunkyGymMom]

This strikes me as a real “teachable moment”.

I raised this topic with my DD (11) in the context of what’s appropriate for social media and what’s not. To my surprise, she knew right away the coach I was talking about, as she follows her on Instagram. Her initial reaction was, “it’s okay, that coach really loves her gymnasts”. But when I asked if she would be comfortable if her coach took video of her at a rough practice and posted it, her response - NO WAY!

We talked about how good people (including coaches) sometimes do hurtful things. Sometimes, they do innocuous things that can be unintentionally hurtful. A coach that is awesome 99% of the time can still do lasting damage if even a few words or actions hit on a sensitive subject or come at a time when a gymnast is vulnerable. Though DD thought some of her teammates might be fine with a coach posting videos like this “all in fun”, she could also see where some might be hesitant to say if they were upset by it. Because common sense says these types of posts could be hurtful, and because some girls can’t or won’t speak up when they are, I think this type of social media posting should be out of bounds.

I am hopeful that Safe Sport will not be viewed as just a “gotcha” program to weed out abusive coaches. It also should be welcomed as a way to raise awareness and educate on behaviors that might have negative effects. I hope coaches, gymnasts, and parents can all learn from it and adjust their expectations and actions in light of lessons learned. There will be plenty of teachable moments in the next couple years as Safe Sport becomes part of the gymnastics culture. How we all respond to those moments will be a big factor in its success.

 

[Laylathegymnast]

Interesting. To me the initial post appeared legit, but you are right, there are reasons to be suspicious about the motivations for the initial post. If anyone is trying to harm this coach for personal reasons they are using an incredibly important issue to further their own personal agenda, and that would be very concerning. I would be interested in hearing from the OP again.

I had no intentions of stirring up any sort of drama. I found this coach from the explore page on Instagram, and wanted to know what other's opinions on her posts were. To me, her very public account should be open to criticism.

Also, I really hope that no one reported her to SafeSport. I just wanted to open a discussion of what is/is not okay in regards to posting young gymnasts on social media, not start a personal attack.

 

[Madden3]

Thank you for the further explanation, laylathegymnast.

 

[twinmomma]

This sounds and looks to me like a coach more focused on her own self promotion than the true care of her gymnasts. I think that's why her response was what it was. She may have fun with them in the gym, she may have what seems to be great relationships with them. My daughter's coaches post videos and photos to instagram and facebook but it's always in celebration of them. How they are progressing, how PROUD they are of their hard work. Does that mean the kids on DD's team never give attitude or have a bad day? Absolutely not. But when things are a struggle they sit down, talk to the athletes, talk to the parents, help the kids work through whatever is going on. I'd be mortified if they posted those things publicly.

Would you want your boss to post about a negative interaction or your bad days? A video of it perhaps? Then why is it ok for a coach who is in a power position over MINORS to post this sort of thing?

 

[wandrewsjr]

I have not watched any of the social media videos, but if you truly believe it to be horrifying, disgusting abuse and public harassment and bullying, wouldn't you be negligent to NOT report it to safesport?!

 

[gymdog]

What I think we've all learned here is the important lesson that when you put something out on social media you can't control how it is perceived, used, or viewed by those who see it. In the grand scheme of things, the reaction she found here from concerned parents is nothing compared to the far more nefarious ways seasoned gymterneters have seen gym videos used.

Not saying that to scare people because at some point we can't control every risk and have to decide for ourselves. But remember that children can't consent to risks they can't conceive of.

I personally would never share on personal social media any image of a child I work with, much less videos of them being themselves. I can't see the "story" because I don't have Instagram but I immediately knew who it would be. And I'm sure she does care about these girls and the line has been blurred by the followers and positive attention. So while I can't comment on the degree to which I think the video is inappropriate, I personally would make very different choices.

I occasionally, like a few times a year, will share something the girls have been working on to only a closed group of their parents. I would never put it on my own personal account.

And while I don't think there is a problem with taking videos for parents, I choose to only do it a few times a year for a different reason. The kids love it and want to be featured on social media, I get that part of it. I'm sure these girls in many circumstances are begging to be in videos. And that's exactly why I make it such a rare feature of our gym time. I just don't need another space where the fake nature of Instagram and whatever else is dominating everyone's thoughts. Can we just be and not worry about how we look in snapchat filters? There's so much more to life and so much more out there for them, I just don't really want to give in to this constant need to document everything for social media.

 

[gasrgoose]

The coach appears very concerned about her image and not very savvy in her self promotion. I thinks it's unprofessional, but not surprising from her.

BUT any action necessary should be between the coach and the parents of the gymnasts in her gym.