WAG Typical Start of Season Scores?

[duyetanh]

I wanted to add that gym specific requirements for move ups aren’t necessarily sandbagging but they have always confounded me. The usag requirements for level should be sufficient imo.

YES.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

The Giants requirement being in place for Level 7 has been explained to me that moving on at that point without them starts to make the gap too wide when trying to then move forward to Level 8 bars which is a big jump even for girls with great giants in Level 7.

Just from my ignorant parent POV. I just don't buy it.

I get once you start getting to L7 and higher repeating happens for a bunch of reasons.

I have a kid with no giants. She could of repeated 6 or went to 7. She went to 7. Now she may need to repeat 7. I.Could.Care.Less.
She can add to her routines. Be ready for 8 in one season or 2.

Staying in 6 over her lack of certain skills would of only improved her L6 scores and team scores, not her gymnastics. No need to stay behind. Really this is the best thing for her.

And I can't speak for all kids. Just the one I parent. Staying at L6 and scoring well wouldn't challenge her to improve, nearly as much as scoring with room for improvement in L7 is.

 

[gymbeam]

Just from my ignorant parent POV. I just don't buy it.

I get once you start getting to L7 and higher repeating happens for a bunch of reasons.

I have a kid with no giants. She could of repeated 6 or went to 7. She went to 7. Now she may need to repeat 7. I.Could.Care.Less.
She can add to her routines. Be ready for 8 in one season or 2.

Staying in 6 over her lack of certain skills would of only improved her L6 scores and team scores, not her gymnastics. No need to stay behind. Really this is the best thing for her.

And I can't speak for all kids. Just the one I parent. Staying at L6 and scoring well wouldn't challenge her to improve, nearly as much as scoring with room for improvement in L7 is.

There are many types of gyms and many types of gymnasts. Some gymnasts need gyms who are happy to accommodate athletes who progress at varying speeds and some are more rigid in their requirements and timelines.

Both types of gyms provide very valuable services while having very different goals in mind.

I’m glad that both types of gyms exist so that everyone can get what they want out of this sport.

 

[QueenBee]

Thanks (everyone) for clarifying your thoughts on sandbagging, I think I understand your reasoning with the inclusion of 'intent'. I tend to agree with @gymbeam, though, that looking at gyms with high scorers in Level 6 and Level 7 doesn't indicate any intent or proof of sandbagging.

The gymnasts who score high in Level 7 are from many different gyms in our area. The training methods for these gyms have nothing to do with sandbagging for scores (there is a wide range of scores at each gym at each level); rather it has to do with gym philosophy of how you train, the benefits of competing one level per year while not skipping levels, and a focus on fundamentals and form. There are coaches who think it is best (for a variety of reasons) to compete one level per year and to not skip any compulsory levels. This isn't for sandbagging, though the idea of sandbagging Level 5 is pretty funny to me. Are there any gyms known for sandbagging Level 5 gymnasts, lol? Are there gymnasts who would repeat Level 5 for an additional year if they've hit the mobility score?

Very few of the top scoring gymnasts at Level 7 in my area doing the 'minimum' for their level (it wouldn't score well enough, especially with bars and beam angle deductions), but not doing the minimum for the level does not mean that a gymnast has the minimum required for the next level, especially when it comes to competing Level 8 9 and 10. The jumps in skills is huge between Level 7 to Level 8, the jump between 8 and 9 is bigger still and that final jump to Level 10 is enormous.

 

[gymgal]

This isn't for sandbagging, though the idea of sandbagging Level 5 is pretty funny to me. Are there any gyms known for sandbagging Level 5 gymnasts, lol? Are there gymnasts who would repeat Level 5 for an additional year if they've hit the mobility score?

Yes, there are gyms that compete L5 in the fall and then compete L5 again the next fall, followed by L7 in the spring. Makes no sense to me.

 

[QueenBee]

Yes, there are gyms that compete L5 in the fall and then compete L5 again the next fall, followed by L7 in the spring. Makes no sense to me.

Are they high scoring in Level 5 both times? What about Level 7? Genuinely curious about this phenomenon...

 

[John]

I can not say that a gym is holding a gymnast back in compulsories but when you see a gymnast place well in states in level 4 or 5 and then do that level again it makes you wonder.

I do believe there are gyms that what to say they won states a level 4 and 5. I personally do not see the need to TRY to win states at those levels. Should you have a great compulsory gymnast then yes see if they can win, it is something that gymnast will remember forever.

I have learned here that gymnastics is an individual journey for each gymnast. Each will experience their own highs and lows, realizing their own accomplishments. To be a successful gymnast means to push yourself to achieve the most of yourself. For some gymnasts that means winning states at Level4 and for others, it means making it to level 10 yet never winning anything. Each gymnast has to know what they want and work to accomplish their dreams.

 

[wallflower]

My question when I read this same conversation year after year on CB is why do certain people care what other kids are doing? There are so many factors that go into a level decision that have nothing to do with score or placement. There is nothing wrong with starting a level scoring a 38+. There is nothing wrong with being in a level where you can place very well. It doesn't mean they "should" move up. Based on the opinion of parents? There doesn't need to be a reason other than that's where the child is going to be happy and score well.

Some of you aren't there yet so maybe you don't really grasp that gymnastics gets very hard, very quickly (physically, mentally, emotionally) around level 9 pushing into level 10. It's heartbreaking to watch at times. Many kids don't have the physical talent to do great at those levels. So why not enjoy the sport while they can? They may reach a point where they can't progress. So why rush a kid through 6,7,8 just because they are scoring well? You might be rushing them right out of the sport. What if level 8 is their physical limit? Reaching level 10 isn't like school where if you just keep plugging along everyone who starts kindergarten will make it to 12th grade.

I'm also curious what's wrong with doing well? I'm confused on why that seems to be a negative thing for some of you. As if coaches and gymnasts should not strive to be as successful as possible. Well you might win Level 6 and have a lot of success so we should do level 7 where you will be mediocre.

 

[John]

My question when I read this same conversation year after year on CB is why do certain people care what other kids are doing? There are so many factors that go into a level decision that have nothing to do with score or placement. There is nothing wrong with starting a level scoring a 38+. There is nothing wrong with being in a level where you can place very well. It doesn't mean they "should" move up. Based on the opinion of parents? There doesn't need to be a reason other than that's where the child is going to be happy and score well.

Some of you aren't there yet so maybe you don't really grasp that gymnastics gets very hard, very quickly (physically, mentally, emotionally) around level 9 pushing into level 10. It's heartbreaking to watch at times. Many kids don't have the physical talent to do great at those levels. So why not enjoy the sport while they can? They may reach a point where they can't progress. So why rush a kid through 6,7,8 just because they are scoring well? You might be rushing them right out of the sport. What if level 8 is their physical limit? Reaching level 10 isn't like school where if you just keep plugging along everyone who starts kindergarten will make it to 12th grade.

I'm also curious what's wrong with doing well? I'm confused on why that seems to be a negative thing for some of you. As if coaches and gymnasts should not strive to be as successful as possible. Well you might win Level 6 and have a lot of success so we should do level 7 where you will be mediocre.

I have my thoughts. Every parent wants their child to be successful. They think if little Suzie was just up a level my child could win. Gymnastics is not about that. It's more like learning to paint, it is a personal journey to be done for one's self.

But you are correct unless someone sits in the gym and watches the higher levels practice you will not fully understand what it takes to be an upper-level gymnast. It could bring tears to your eyes to watch a gymnast attempt something over and over for days and weeks and never successfully complete the skill. They are inspiring to watch.

I do stick to my intention that some gyms hold kids back for the gym's reputation, I think that is despicable, listening to Christmas Carols the Grinch is currently playing.

 

[LGnyc]

because there is no consistent answer. As others have said it is too variable. Some gymnasts start at a 36 and stay there all season. Others start there and improve to high 37s. Still others start at 32/33/34 and move up (or stay the same). The OP's dd's scores look great to me for a first meet but we have several gyms around us who would never let their gymnasts compete with anything less than a 37 right from the first meet of the season.

Wowza! Seriously? You must be in a seriously competitive region.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I'm also curious what's wrong with doing well? I'm confused on why that seems to be a negative thing for some of you. As if coaches and gymnasts should not strive to be as successful as possible. Well you might win Level 6 and have a lot of success so we should do level 7 where you will be mediocre.

Because kids understand that they will get beat. They also understand whats fair and whats not fair.
They want a somewhat even playing field.

I personally would like to see a mandatory your done with the level point as far as competing goes. You score x at states you are done competing that level. Or put repeaters in their own group.

Seriously, its pretty disheartening to the kids, when a bunch of kids are leaving a hotel for states to hear a set of parents tell the other parents that their kids are doing a Level 7 meet next week. And they are competing L5 for states. If they have meet ready L7 skills, clearly have done L5 and met move up score. They should of went to 7.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

But you are correct unless someone sits in the gym and watches the higher levels practice you will not fully understand what it takes to be an upper-level gymnast. It could bring tears to your eyes to watch a gymnast attempt something over and over for days and weeks and never successfully complete the skill. They are inspiring to watch.

You don't have to watch higher levels to watch a gymnast attempt something over and over again for days and weeks. Mill circle, Kip, BHS on a beam, ROBHS on floor.

Most kids take a really long time to get those skills and many never do.

 

[gymbeam]

Because kids understand that they will get beat. They also understand whats fair and whats not fair.
They want a somewhat even playing field.

I personally would like to see a mandatory your done with the level point as far as competing goes. You score x at states you are done competing that level. Or put repeaters in their own group.

Seriously, its pretty disheartening to the kids, when a bunch of kids are leaving a hotel for states to hear a set of parents tell the other parents that their kids are doing a Level 7 meet next week. And they are competing L5 for states. If they have meet ready L7 skills, clearly have done L5 and met move up score. They should of went to 7.

No. If you live in an area like ours where Level 5 states is In December and Optional season starts right after it- that’s just the way it goes. You have to be ready for 7 immediately after 5 or sit back and wait an entire year to compete again which is a waste of time.

 

[gymbeam]

Because level 6 is not required, moving from 5 to 7 like that is the way the system is set up in areas with fall compulsory and spring Optionals. There’s no reason that should be a problem when that’s the way USAG has it set up.

 

[gymbeam]

and let’s face it and all be honest here, some coach/athlete combos just can’t score 37s and 38s no matter how many times they repeat a girl or how long they wait between level 5 and 7.

it takes so much more than just holding a girl back to get those kinds of scores.

 

[gymbeam]

we had a girl move to our gym
Last year who for 6 years at her previous gym averaged high 35s to low 36s from bronze through level 7. In ONE summer with our coaches she started her level 8 season with a 37.8 and ended it with a 38.7.

I’ll say it again. It’s mostly in the coach/athlete combos. Some combos have it and some don’t.

*I say mostly because there are always exceptions so I’m sure sandbagging happens, but I’ve yet to see any examples given here as definite examples of that. Scoring high doesn’t prove it nor does moving to 7 right after 5.

 

[gymbeam]

Yes, there are gyms that compete L5 in the fall and then compete L5 again the next fall, followed by L7 in the spring. Makes no sense to me.

So you can’t win then.

You don’t like them doing 5 twice in areas where compulsory is in the fall and Optionals in the spring, but others complain when they go straight from 5 to 7 within months.

It’s got to be one or the other or they don’t get any competition experience for over 12 months and that’s too long.

 

[gymbeam]

I think this is true for those scoring in the high 35/mid 36 range but once you get into the 37s from the start of the season, it is likely that the gym competes down a level. They have all of the skills for the next level but compete at the level where they can score very high.

One last time and I’ll chill.

37s at the start of a season mean they are kicking *** in THAT level. That’s it.

37s in no way whatsoever provide any clue as to what skills they have for the next level. The only way you can judge that is to go watch them practice... Then and only then can you make these sort of claims.

 

[wallflower]

Are they high scoring in Level 5 both times? What about Level 7? Genuinely curious about this phenomenon...

I've seen this done and the coaches will say

Because kids understand that they will get beat. They also understand whats fair and whats not fair.
They want a somewhat even playing field.

I personally would like to see a mandatory your done with the level point as far as competing goes. You score x at states you are done competing that level. Or put repeaters in their own group.

Seriously, its pretty disheartening to the kids, when a bunch of kids are leaving a hotel for states to hear a set of parents tell the other parents that their kids are doing a Level 7 meet next week. And they are competing L5 for states. If they have meet ready L7 skills, clearly have done L5 and met move up score. They should of went to 7.

I'm curious what you find unfair about a gymnast being good at a level and well prepared to compete. So because not everyone can achieve that level of cleanliness to score high they should get out of the way so those that are average will feel better? You want to make sure they know what it's like to lose? Lol Because there are many, many kids that can score 37-38 the first time out and they are very young.

Come back and tell me a kid should have to move on from a level after scoring a certain score when your child has been forced to move on from level 8 because she is too good, but can't do a bar change for level 9. Maybe she'll never get a bar change. Should she just quit? It makes no sense and shows a lack of understanding regarding upper level optionals.

 

[wallflower]

I think this is true for those scoring in the high 35/mid 36 range but once you get into the 37s from the start of the season, it is likely that the gym competes down a level. They have all of the skills for the next level but compete at the level where they can score very high.

I completely disagree with this. My child has scored 37-38 without having ANY skills for the next level. We have never been at a gym that trained above level. If a gymnast has good form and technique they can score well as soon as the skills come.