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a new organization?? NGA

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MILgymFAM

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All of gymnastics until the elite level is a money grab, really. If we are being honest, the elite stream is separate and the JO and xcel streams of competition are not needed for international competition at all, and not until L9 for college purposes. Everything before that could be much cheaper with in-house meets or little/no meets. I know many won’t agree with me on that, but it’s how I see it. People pay because they want to. People love to take their kids to states/regionals/nationals/IGC worlds because it’s fun and because it conveys some form of bragging rights to say your kid is a state/regional/etc champion. I’m not immune, but I do see it for what it is.
 

LJL07

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All of gymnastics until the elite level is a money grab, really. If we are being honest, the elite stream is separate and the JO and xcel streams of competition are not needed for international competition at all, and not until L9 for college purposes. Everything before that could be much cheaper with in-house meets or little/no meets. I know many won’t agree with me on that, but it’s how I see it. People pay because they want to. People love to take their kids to states/regionals/nationals/IGC worlds because it’s fun and because it conveys some form of bragging rights to say your kid is a state/regional/etc champion. I’m not immune, but I do see it for what it is.
I agree. Regionals don‘t really “matter” until level 9 or 10. It’s just a good goal to aim for regionals below level 9, and regionals is definitely a money maker for JO too. I know someone who is pretty involved with this new organization. He’s a good guy and seems to genuinely care about the kids’ well being. I personally haven’t listened to any of the zoom calls. I don’t know enough about the organization to be for or against it either, but I’m going to try to keep an open mind. I’m also trying to keep an open mind about the changes usag is making.
 

FlippinLilysMom

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I know that in region 4, regionals for the lower levels are not a huge draw and are usually a revenue loss for the host gym. They even have a hard time finding gyms to host the 8-10 regionals as those meets don't make a ton of revenue. They usually end up being more work than they are worth, which is why you won't see many gyms hosting them more than once.
 
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cmg

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One other way to look at State and Regionals for lower levels is to get experience at a "big important" meet. Yes I get that the Regional and National meets don't really "count" until L9 and L10, but if a gymnast had only competed little local meets or in house meets how do you expect them to all of a sudden be calm, cool, and collected at a Regional or National meet without any experience?? Just my two cents, but I think the Regional meets are good for lower levels say L7 and L8 if only to give experience of travelling, having your normal routine disrupted but still nailing your routines. There is no regional compulsory meet although I think Excel has a regional meet for everyone so as a parent you can decide if you want to spend a bunch of money for your Bronze gymnast. Again it is usually about the trip and having fun at that stage not the gymnastics.

I don't think we need a new gymnastics organization, I think we just need one that works. And yes I think that takes time. We are hearing more and more stories of potential emotional abuse, racism and other issues. These tactics have been going on for decades and it will take time to change, like another decade or so. I am not saying that really abusive coaches should be given decades to clean up their act, but as a whole the sport of gymnastics seems like it is starting to take a good hard look at itself in the U.S. and across the world. But it is only the first step of finding out what really is going on out there. Parents have to make a choice on what is best for their kids, but they also have to know and understand what goes on in the gym. I would think that by now no gym would have a policy of no parents watching...that is a set up for failure if you ask me. So bottom line if we have another organization is it going to water down the competitiveness at either organization's meets? If athletes are going to two different organization's meets how are college coaches supposed to recruit efficiently? Are elite level athletes going to come from both organizations? How will the Olympic team be selected? It just seems like an inefficient system to have two organizations doing the same thing.
 

MILgymFAM

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@cmg and that does seem to be the most common counter argument. In my view, if everyone experiences it for the first time when they hit L9, then they’re all on an even playing field and will have been there, done that for L10. I don’t think that will be a change that ever happens or anything, so I know it’s only my $0.02.
 

raenndrops

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So bottom line if we have another organization is it going to water down the competitiveness at either organization's meets? If athletes are going to two different organization's meets how are college coaches supposed to recruit efficiently? Are elite level athletes going to come from both organizations? How will the Olympic team be selected? It just seems like an inefficient system to have two organizations doing the same thing.
Let me start by saying I have no opinion one way or the other about the NGA because I don't know enough to formulate an informed opinion, but I will answer your questions / statement to the best of my ability.

1. So bottom line if we have another organization is it going to water down the competitiveness at either organization's meets?
That will depend on the numbers.

2. If athletes are going to two different organization's meets how are college coaches supposed to recruit efficiently?
The same way they recruit now. Actually a lot of meets run both USAG and USAIGC at the same "meet" but not at the same time. The NGA could easily do the same thing - compete at meets that also have USAG sessions. Gymnasts could still send videos and keep an updated YouTube page with their gymnastics skills they are training and their meets on them.

3. Are elite level athletes going to come from both organizations?
Elite level athletes COULD potentially develop form either program, but the "Elite" program is run by the National Governing Body ... at this point, USAG.
4. How will the Olympic team be selected?
The Olympic team will be selected the same way it is now - by the National Governing Body.

5. It just seems like an inefficient system to have two organizations doing the same thing.
Currently, there is USAG, USAIGC, YMCA, AAU, JOGA, and probably several other gymnastics organizations out there although there can be some overlap between them (I know positively that USAG and YMCA can overlap). And actually, they aren't really doing the same thing. Right now, NGA only has WAG (apparently with plans to add MAG at some point). USAG has WAG, MAG, T&T, Rhythmic, Acrobatic, GFA, and Parkour. Also, NGA is an all optionals program similar to USAIGC, but with more levels.
 

GAgymmom

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Not to keep harping on this, but after reading the requirements at each level, it appears to be a greatly watered-down version of USAG requirements. The level 10 requirements could be met by any level 8 at our gym. The level 6 requirements are about what a level 4 could do. It’s like Xcel, only easier. I hate to say it, but it does appear to be just about the money, as the standard of performance expectation is significantly lower. I don’t see how it will lead to college scholarships at this point in time.
 

FlippinLilysMom

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Not to keep harping on this, but after reading the requirements at each level, it appears to be a greatly watered-down version of USAG requirements. The level 10 requirements could be met by any level 8 at our gym. The level 6 requirements are about what a level 4 could do. It’s like Xcel, only easier. I hate to say it, but it does appear to be just about the money, as the standard of performance expectation is significantly lower. I don’t see how it will lead to college scholarships at this point in time.
Would be interesting to see what their elite requirements would be.....
 

LJL07

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Not to keep harping on this, but after reading the requirements at each level, it appears to be a greatly watered-down version of USAG requirements. The level 10 requirements could be met by any level 8 at our gym. The level 6 requirements are about what a level 4 could do. It’s like Xcel, only easier. I hate to say it, but it does appear to be just about the money, as the standard of performance expectation is significantly lower. I don’t see how it will lead to college scholarships at this point in time.
I'm not a judge by any stretch, but when I glanced over the requirements, it looked like levels 8-10 were pretty comparable to USAG. What aspects are different? I did see that some of the lower levels and level 7 looked easier. Our gym may be going with this group. I don't have any say so in this.
 
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raenndrops

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Not to keep harping on this, but after reading the requirements at each level, it appears to be a greatly watered-down version of USAG requirements. The level 10 requirements could be met by any level 8 at our gym. The level 6 requirements are about what a level 4 could do. It’s like Xcel, only easier. I hate to say it, but it does appear to be just about the money, as the standard of performance expectation is significantly lower. I don’t see how it will lead to college scholarships at this point in time.
For side-by-side comparison. I did reorder the NGA Requirements to make the comparison easier
Bars: JO Level 8 (4 A & 4B) NGA Level 8 (4 A & 4 B & 1 C)
1. Min. of 1 bar change 1. Cast Handstand
2. B element with flight or turn 2. Flight or Turn
3. B element from Groups 3,6, or 7 3. Clear Hip, Stalder, or Hecht
4. Salto or Hecht dismount (min. A) 4. Salto Dismount

Beam: JO Level 8 (4 A & 4B) NGA Level 8 (4 A & 4 B & 1 C)
1. Acro series (min 2 elements), 1 with flight 1. Acro series, one with flight
2. One leap/ jump with 180º split 2. One leap/ jump with 180º split IN COMBINATION
3. Minimum 360º turn on 1 foot 3. Full Turn
4. Aerial or salto dismount, min.. A 4. Salto dismount

Floor: JO Level 8 (4 A & 4B) NGA Level 8 (4 A & 4 B & 1 C)
1. Acro series with 2 saltos or 2 directly connected saltos 1. Acro series - 3 elements with Salto
2. 3 different saltos within the exercise 2. "B" Salto
3. Dance passage, min 2 dif Group 1 elements 3. Leap / jump pass 180º (2 elements)
- one a leap with 180º cross or side split
4. Minimum 360º turn on 1 foot 4. "B" Turn
- isolated or in a series

They seem fairly similar to me. And, imho, it is better to spell out what is actually required, than to give requirements (that if met with minimums) result in "up to level" deductions.
 
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