Parents A question about owner/team dynamics

[PNWMtnDude]

Is it true that gym owners consider Team as unprofitable? Some owners I have heard will use this as a threat, like "There are other gyms out there. You guys don't make me any money, it's my way or the highway!".

I can see how rec could be more profitable on a per hour basis - but doesn't the prospect of being able to compete on a team serve as a draw for other children into advanced rec/preteam and therefore more revenue?

Along these lines, is it standard practice for gym owners to place unqualified children on a team with no tryout? Does this happen often at your gym?

 

[MILgymFAM]

Yes, I’ve heard similar gripes from a few gyms we have associated with. As to the other question,I guess I have to ask what you mean by unqualified?

 

[PNWMtnDude]

Yes, I’ve heard similar gripes from a few gyms we have associated with. As to the other question,I guess I have to ask what you mean by unqualified?

By unqualified, I mean no skills at all. Not even cartwheel!

 

[MILgymFAM]

By unqualified, I mean no skills at all. Not even cartwheel!

When my daughter started team she had no skills. In fact, when she won gymnast of the year later that same year, her coach joked how she couldn’t even do a cartwheel when he met her. She is now training L8. They taught her what she needed to know. They didn’t take my other daughter even though she had some skills. They had some sort of way of deciding, obviously- one that I wasn’t privy to. I’m sure your gym must have some system in place as well.

 

[GymDadWA]

It's very shortsighted to see team as not making money, having that upper echelon of gymnasts and someone for the rec kids to look up to is all part of attracting and retaining new customers. If it was just about rec and making money than he might as well convert into a trampoline park.

As far as placing on team there were a couple last minute additions to my DD's level 2 squad when she was starting out as those kids missed the tryouts but their rec coaches vouched for them. Since then they added pre-team for placing girls that missed tryouts.

 

[Cheryl]

We had a gym that the owner said the team was unprofitable. Probably because they had a small team. The reason they had a small team was because there was a lot of coaching turnover on the girls side, and lots of boys who were "kicked out" because they wanted to participate in other activities and occasionally miss practice. Half of our new gym was at the old gym at one point. Our new gym is far more boy oriented and team oriented. There are rec classes, but not a lot. I think if run correctly that having a team where you are charging a certain amount every month to the same kids every year than relying on a rec program that most kids will drop out of after a few sessions, would be a more profitable way to run a business. They have been in business for a long time and have separate facilities for boys and girls, so I guess their model works.

 

[sce]

Typically, gyms charge a lot less per hour for team kids and have a lot of coaching time allocated to team, often the highest paid coaches as they are the most skilled. It is hard for teams to bring profit to a gym by themselves. But yes, they are part of the larger gym stem that draws kids in. In a healthy environment, a coach or owner would never hold that over the team kids or parents or make threats about it. That is manipulative and bordering on emotional abuse.

As for who makes team, skill level wise. It is so hard to know why who makes team. It seems that some kids move kids up early and fast and those kids may not eb as successful. Overall though, gyms seem to know what they a re looking for in a team kid and don't just move them up to fill slots.

 

[Taxidriver]

I know our team isn’t as profitable as the rec and rec is where the gym makes most of its money but I’ve never heard it used as a threat, the only time I’ve heard it mentioned is that they try to make team as affordable as possible as they know if they charge the same hourly rate over 90% of the girls wouldn’t be able to afford it.
How do you know they’ve not had a tryout?
My dd gym do take on girls with no skills, most girls do have trials but also they have links with other gyms and do take some girls just on recommendation of coaches.

 

[John]

I will not say Team is not profitable but as mentioned above the team pays far less an hour. At DD's gym the team, all levels boys and girls, probably consists of 150 athletes. The rec portion of the gym has 2,000 active participants. So I see how rec is profitable. With that said the owner and the team coaches spend little to no time with the rec kids and it is obvious that each team coach loves gymnastics, sometimes too much. We have attended another gym where the owner was a businessman first and team was not so important to him. I prefer the owner loving gymnastics if I had to choose.

Added I am not sure how the team is selected but a tryout is needed. They look for things but I am not exactly sure what those things are. I think first is desire. They have some older girls on lower levels and I love to watch those girls and the effort the give.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Along these lines, is it standard practice for gym owners to place unqualified children on a team with no tryout? Does this happen often at your gym?

I’m not sure what you consider unqualified. Every kid that comes to our gym is given an opportunity to do team. Coaches decide the level and who moves up based on skill but they are all able to “do” team. But if the kids make the effort and the parents are willing on team they go. They get qualified by training.

Way back when we started at our gym. They assessed my daughter and put her back a level then she was training at our first gym. There have been kids who simply can’t get the skills to move to the next level, they might repeat a year, if it goes more than 2 repeats at lower levels, they usually dropout.

But In 7 yrs I haven’t seen them turn away a kid willing to work and train.

 

[triplethreat+1]

I’m not sure what you consider unqualified. Every kid that comes to our gym is given an opportunity to do team. Coaches decide the level and who moves up based on skill but they are all able to “do” team. But if the kids make the effort and the parents are willing on team they go. They get qualified by training.

Way back when we started at our gym. They assessed my daughter and put her back a level then she was training at our first gym. There have been kids who simply can’t get the skills to move to the next level, they might repeat a year, if it goes more than 2 repeats at lower levels, they usually dropout.

But In 7 yrs I haven’t seen them turn away a kid willing to work and train.

This is how our gym is too. The rec coaches do recommend some kids to competitive (that's how we got into the craziness of gym) but if a kid wants to train I don't think the gym has ever said no, especially not to preteam. There are definitely kids in levels 1 and 2 that will likely never make it past level 3. Our gym does have specific training groups for those (usually younger) kids with natural talent who are expected to move up faster.
We have about 100 team kids (includes wag, tramp, tumbling) and I think I heard around 800 rec. It has been mentioned that the higher the hours, the lower cost per hour. But our owner has never said, or even inferred, that team is 'unprofitable'.

 

[gymnastmom05]

I do recall our owner having a meeting with Team parents once in the 7 years we have been there and did discuss that Team is not profitable. It was a topic amongst many others discussed at this meeting. I didn't find any issue with him telling parents as I think he had parents complaining about the monthly tuition rate. He explained mostly what's been listed above: the breakdown of price per hour is much lower than rec, the coaches are more experienced and therefore cost more, a few of them are full-time employees with benefits, etc. He told us he charges enough to cover the costs but the profit his gym makes comes from the Rec side of things.

Our gym invites kids to team based on Rec coach recommendation, evaluations of kids that reach out and ask specifically (usually from another gym but sometimes a Rec kid that wasn't noticed). My friends DD was turned away from team when she was 6. HC at the time was also her Rec coach and when her mom asked, she was told her DD didn't have the focus a that point. It was sad but now that we are many many years out of it, I think HC was right on. The girls personality just wasn't/isn't what gymnastics usually requires (focus and patience!)

 

[e'smum]

Is it true that gym owners consider Team as unprofitable? Some owners I have heard will use this as a threat, like "There are other gyms out there. You guys don't make me any money, it's my way or the highway!".

I can see how rec could be more profitable on a per hour basis - but doesn't the prospect of being able to compete on a team serve as a draw for other children into advanced rec/preteam and therefore more revenue?

Along these lines, is it standard practice for gym owners to place unqualified children on a team with no tryout? Does this happen often at your gym?

we hear this at our gym ALL THE FREAKING TIME. to say i'm annoyed with hearing it is an understatement. . it's an excuse for how some things are done and it's thrown in the team parent's faces a lot. i know i'm not alone with being annoyed at it being put out there so much.
HOWEVER, to be fair - they don't make a profit on team. but it's enough to cover costs for the team per month. for instance, i was paying $420/20.5 hours week with JO lvl 8. Per hour, not much $. We are switching to Xcel Diamond (for a few reasons) and it's only 9 hours/wk yet I'm still paying $310/month. So while JO, not so much, Xcel and Rec are money makers. One of the Xcel Gold moms figured out the gym is making $500/hour with Xcel Gold (the 9 hours they are there each week). Then there's a ton of Rec Classes/tumbling/Parkour/Ect... along with the Boy's Team and JO. They aren't poor. I'll just say that. and they all go into opening a gym knowing JO is not profitable but it's a draw to get in Rec Kids.....
And no, they don't invite just anyone on JO. I think Xcel might be a bit more forgiving though.

 

[gymdog]

I’m not sure what you consider unqualified. Every kid that comes to our gym is given an opportunity to do team. Coaches decide the level and who moves up based on skill but they are all able to “do” team. But if the kids make the effort and the parents are willing on team they go. They get qualified by training.

Way back when we started at our gym. They assessed my daughter and put her back a level then she was training at our first gym. There have been kids who simply can’t get the skills to move to the next level, they might repeat a year, if it goes more than 2 repeats at lower levels, they usually dropout.

But In 7 yrs I haven’t seen them turn away a kid willing to work and train.

Yeah, I mean, in bronze now you can compete forward roll forward roll pretty much. As long as all kids are treated fairly and there is some structure for mobility that everyone understands, I am always happy to see a gym that is accepting of a greater range of gymnasts who dream of competing.

 

[PNWMtnDude]

When my daughter started team she had no skills. In fact, when she won gymnast of the year later that same year, her coach joked how she couldn’t even do a cartwheel when he met her. She is now training L8. They taught her what she needed to know. They didn’t take my other daughter even though she had some skills. They had some sort of way of deciding, obviously- one that I wasn’t privy to. I’m sure your gym must have some system in place as well.

Yes you're probably right, there must have been some communication before that - but it was just presented to the coach by the owner, as if it was decided unilaterally with no input from her. The girl has determination, and she's focused, all pluses!

 

[PNWMtnDude]

I’m not sure what you consider unqualified. Every kid that comes to our gym is given an opportunity to do team. Coaches decide the level and who moves up based on skill but they are all able to “do” team. But if the kids make the effort and the parents are willing on team they go. They get qualified by training.

Way back when we started at our gym. They assessed my daughter and put her back a level then she was training at our first gym. There have been kids who simply can’t get the skills to move to the next level, they might repeat a year, if it goes more than 2 repeats at lower levels, they usually dropout.

But In 7 yrs I haven’t seen them turn away a kid willing to work and train.

Yea, I think perhaps "unqualified" was too strong a word in this instance. The girl shows determination and they have to travel 90 minutes a day to get to and back from gym. She definitely wants it! There was a lot of grumbling from parents whose girls are training at the level she was placed in, where they had to try out, in a few cases multiple times. I think the full story isn't really known, though.