about age Aussie girls should start levels

[Bobby]

I did gymnastics when I was young but of course everything has changed!!
My DD was 5 in August, which means she'll start big school ('prep') in 2010 as one of the eldest in her grade.
She's been going to 'kindergym' all year, and I just assumed she'd be allowed to start gymnastics next year 'at the beginning' (ie: level 1). But the invites we were given to re-register for next year are just for a regular 'beginners' class - which is only an hour per week!!!
I snooped around amongst some mums with older gymnasts, and was told that 'competition classes' (where the girls do levels) is by invitation only, and apparently only a minority are selected.
Bummer.
It could be mother's bias, but I honestly thought my DD had real aptitude.
I researched a bit on the web (which brought me to this wonderful forum), and found that level 1s compete as either 'under 6' or 'over 6'. This strongly suggested to me an underlying assumption that all girls who started young enough SHOULD compete level 1 before they turn 6 (and presumably the 'overs' are mostly late-starters) - after all they wouldn't pick a cutoff which left barely any girls in one division.
If my DD is already 'behind' her peer group, I don't see how she'll ever catch up at an hour pw?? And ... she's so far ahead of her current class I'd be a bit surprised if she was that behind 'normal'?
Can anyone advise me on how Aussie girls usually get into levels classes, and at what age, and for how long before they are actually allowed to participate in competitions??
This club has a very good reputation and is close by so I probably wouldn't consider changing clubs. My DD is so much shorter than the other kids in her kindergym class the coaches may assume she's much younger than she is? Do you think it would make a difference to tell them??

 

[Bobby]

Oh gosh I just found this thread:
http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/question-answer/23256-australian-gymnastic-streams.html
... and now I'm more puzzled than ever.
If there's a level 1A, 1B, and C, then surely my DD would have to be eligible for at least one of these??
So perhaps we're not just waiting for an invite to do levels, but also an invite to do either A, b, or C?
'Our' club is huge and has girls competing all the way up to level 10, so I don't think lack of girls or coaches to make up team would be an issue.

 

[gymcoach26]

I don't really know much about your system, but I just wanted to throw it out there that we call our level 1 a "beginner" class and they also go one hour per week. That is in the U.S. Could it be the case that she is a level 1 and you are confused by the name?

 

[gymdog]

The best thing you can do is talk to someone at your child's gym and see if it's possible to schedule an evaluation. I've worked in a big program before, and 1 starts at age 5, kids are looked at from there, not preschool classes. I know some gyms pick kids out of preschool classes, but not all programs do that. Sometimes they have to do a session of the school age program first.

 

[Mack_the_Ripper]

Anyone can start any level at any age once they are past the minimum age requirement (USAG: L5: 7 yrs, for example). I don't know if they have min. age requirements in your country, but you should not be worried about your daughter starting "late". 6 years old is not late! I started competetive gymnastics at 13 years old, and I'm one of the best gymnasts on my team!...granted I'm not at a high level, but what's your goal for your daughter? Do you want her to be an Olympian? Or do you want her to have fun and enjoy gymnastics? Because the younger they start, the more likely they'll burn out and quit. The more likely it is that gymnastics will become a chore that they do because "Mommy wants me to be a champion."

 

[bogwoppit]

I believe that in Aus girls are streamed into elite gym very early on, like at 7 years old. (I could be wrong but this is waht I have read) After that age it seems that girls cannot change streams easliy unlike in the US where there are many ways to end up Elite.

I know we have some Aus coaches on here and hopefully they will chime in with their knowledge.

 

[gymfanatic]

I am fairly certain that the girls need to be 6 to compete in level 1 (A, B or C). Level 1 juniors are actually 8 and under (their age at 31st Dec of that year) and seniors are 9 and over.

Perhaps it is only her age that is holding her back.

 

[Invisible Duck]

I am fairly certain that the girls need to be 6 to compete in level 1 (A, B or C). Level 1 juniors are actually 8 and under (their age at 31st Dec of that year) and seniors are 9 and over.

Perhaps it is only her age that is holding her back.

It may be different in other states, but where I am to be eligible to compete in state pennant (state championships) at level 1 they must be older than 5 but no older than 9. There are no other age groups or requirments.

Regarding the OPs question, at the gym I coach at, kids move out of kindergym/junior gym when they start prep and are moved to a beginner class - 1 hour per week. In the beginner class they will start doing level 1. They will also have the chance/option to compete in local friendly competitions. Girls are selected for squad (Groups which train more hours and are expected to compete in several competitions plus state pennant) from these beginner classes. Only occaisionally will they be selected from junior gym or kinder gym classes.

Re. the 3 streams, A, B and C, A = elite, B= national stream and C= state stream. However that is changing next year so is not really applicable any more.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Hi, in Australia the minimum age to compete in gymnastics is 5 years old. They need to be 5 on january 1st of the year they compete. So 5 turning 6. But the vast majority of level 1's are actually a bit older than this. The average age for level 1 is actually 7 years old. With just as many being 8-10 as there are who are 5-6.

Most gyms in Australia do not put kids straight from kindergym into level 1. Most do have a beginners gymnastics class that is once a week between the two levels that the kindergym kids go into one they start skill. In this class she will most likely be working on the level 1 skills to get ready to be a level 1. A child in level 1 has usually already mastered all the level 1 skills and is both competing level 1 and working on level 2 skills.

Once a week is the normal amount to start with. Coaches usually constantly asses the kids in these classes and once they show signs of being ready to move up they are moved up. This means some kids may spend a year or even two years in the beginner level while others may only spend a few moths. The coaches probably just want to make sure she has the basics down and will cope with the more structured class format before moving her on.

In Australia it is not compulsory to compete levels 1-3. Some gyms do and some gyms don't. Many gyms have two types of classes for levels 1-3 including recreational classes and competitive classes. Most kids are moved into the recreational classes once they complete the beginners program and work on level 1-3 skills. In these classes they might do fun competitions in their own club, not against other clubs. Then there are competitive classes where they select quite talented girls to train a little more and do the more serious competitions. If your daughter does have talent she will most likely stand out in this beginners class and be selected for the competitive class. Even if she isn't chosen and she goes onto the recreational classes she will most likely stand out there and be selected.

When they say Under 6 (although its more often under 7 for level 1) they don't mean only 5 years old. All competitions are based on their age on January 1st for the whole year. Your DD is currently too young to compete at all this year because she was only 4 on jan 1st, next year will be the youngest she is allowed to compete and she would be under 6 all year. They don't split the divisions evenly in competitions either. usually level 1 is divided to under 7 and open and one division is almost always much much bigger than the other. Don't look at it and expect it to be even.

I do think it is a good idea to have a chat to your coaches. Some coaches don't like interference from parents and see it as being pushy but most like parent feedback. They do need to know which kids are keen to train more seriously and which kids just want to have fun. As well as which parents are prepared to commit to a more serious schedule and which ones just want a once a week fun class for their kids. I am sure they will be friendly and helpful and once you let them know that your family is interested in the competition road they will prepare her for this possibility.

As far as the A, B and C streams they are actually all changing next year which is probably why the gym hasn't talked about them.

As bogwobbit mentioned it is true that elite gymnasts are selected very early in Australia but very very few kids are ever considered for this. And its something that most likely wont come up as an issue. Most kids go through the normal chain of events training as a beginner and then moving through the levels 1-10 and competing. These girls will all have the chance to train to a very high level and eventually compete nationally but they wont have the chance to ever go to the olympics or represent Australia at international competition.

Only a very small number of kids in Australia are chosen for the elite pathway they must have the perfect body, be very small, have very small parents, be naturally very strong, fast, flexible, coordinated, energetic and daring and be prepared to commit their entire childhoods to training. Most gyms don't even offer this as an option but a few gyms offer what is called a developmental program. This is where they select kids who are 4-6 years of age and show extreme potential in gymnastics and train them more seriously in strength and flexibility. Most will just go on to compete in the normal stream but a few will be selected to train for the more serious international development program. They train a much harder level, for example in the international program level 2 includes and kip and cast to handstand on bars, and back handspring and a front tuck on floor and so on. By the time they are 7-8 they are evaluated to attend a special high performance gym and there are only a few in the country where they train much higher hours (around 18 a week by level 3). If you are interested in this path for your daughter then you need to attend a feeder gym for a high performance centre. If you tell me what state you are in I can let your know where to look.

 

[Bobby]

I've always thought of gymnastics levels as being like belts in karate. You measure your progress in the sport by your progress through the levels. When I learned my DD wasn't going into a level 1 class (and the timetable shows the club has beginners non-levels classes where she will be next year, plus recreational level 1 classes, and competition level 1 classes), I was as surprised as if a karate teacher had said she wasn't good enough to be a 'white belt'. I thought the beginners classes would just be for kids who had never done any gym before.
Aussie Coach, Thank you, thank you, thank you for your info!! In the olden days when I did gym you moved up a level when you "passed" the last one, and if you couldn't do all the skills required you just wouldn't compete until you could. It makes much more sense to do it the other way around, and (whilst I have no idea what level 1 requires) I'll assume my DD can't do it all. ... Then again, aren't the older kids (8-10 on level 1) late starters rather than girls who have been held back for years??
Do we know what the A/B/C system is changing to?
My biggest worry at this moment is that I've been telling DD for months that she'd be allowed to go to gym for longer next year (silly assumption based on my experience in the 'olden days') - OOPS!! So she's been telling that to everyone and really itching for time to hurry by .... and I don't know how to break it to her without devastating her.
I also don't know what to do with her excess energy since she practises constantly and keeps breaking the house with her acrobatic attempts and inciting her younger sister to copy her. I guess I'll have to find another activity or two to keep her busy ... I guess I will mention it to the coach in case she may be allowed to do two beginners classes pw?
PS: Now I know I am a bit pushy. The idea that she's already gettiung too old to be 'identified' as having talent caused an actual twinge of disappointment.

 

[Aussie_coach]

Its probable that most of the 8-10 year old level 1's didn't start gymnastics as early as your daughter but not always. Some gyms have as many as 5 or 6 different levels that the kids are expected to pass before entering level 1.

It depends which state you are in as to what will happen with the levels. But next year there will be level 1 preparation, level 1 and IDP level 1. level 1 preparation will be similar to the old C routines. Generally designed for recreational gymnasts and can be done almost as a pre level. For example some gyms will to level 1 prep and then level 1, then level 2 prep, then level 2 and so on. But the more competitive kids wont do the preparation levels.

The regular level 1 will be the basic competitive level, and the routines are similar to the old B routines. Then IDP level 1 is like the old A routines which are designed for those on the elite track. Unless you live in QLD, there are no A, B , C type levels. Just a basic level 1, level 2 and level 3. I'm assuming that you either live in Victoria or Queensland as you said your daughter is going to prep next year.

I wouldn't worry too much about having told your daughter about the longer class. We find that even if the classes are the same length our 5 year olds think the big kids class is longer. They will now be going to school during the day and then to gymnastics after and it sure feels longer to them. They are usually excited enough about being in the "big kids" classes and not having Mum or Dad along like they do in kindergym. You may find that once she is in school the energy is better controlled.

You could always ask about the possibility of putting her in the beginners class more than once a week. We have a few kids who do this. She will progress faster doing it twice a week even if its the same exact class just repeated on another day because her body is not waiting so long between each class to practice her skills between lessons. At this age it might be ideal to enroll her in something else that complements gymnastics like dancing lessons. Now is a great time to do it and give her a head start in this field. Later on when she is a higher level gymnast she will struggle to find time for any extra activities as the training schedule will be so much more intense.

There is no need to worry about being a pushy mother, gymnastics is one sport where there has to be drive from the child and it will be obvious if there is not. She is not too old to be identified as having talent. Yes, in Australia we do identify young but 5 is certainly not considered over the hill. Why not take her into a HPC (high performance centre) for an evaluation. If you live in Victoria at the VIS (Victorian institute of sport) if you live in QLD at the QAS (Queensland academy of sport). They will let you know if she does have the opportunity to consider elite gymnastics. They will also let you know the best path to have her on now to get the best results. The coaches there won't consider you to be pushy they are all too happy to help any family who loves the sport of gymnastics and wants the most for their children in that sport.

 

[Bobby]

Yep we're in the sunshine state - in fact we live fairly close to Chandler (if that's still where QAS is based?).
DH is a teacher and philosophically opposed to private education so MBC isn't an option.
I didn't know the HPCs dealt with the general public. I assumed the girls would have to be ID'd at competitions to be specially invited for an evaluation?? Do you think her coaches would be miffed if we did that?
Thanks for the reassurance on her maybe not noticing she's not getting more time. She can't tell time so we are in with a chance.
And I will try her with a few other activities. Now that I've actually put a bit of thought into it, gymnastics isn't the only sport suitable for shorties - she'll be just the right size to be a jockey!!
PS: AC, It's easy to see why you have twice as many thanks as posts - I really do appreciate your time!!!

 

[Aussie_coach]

Hi, thanks for the positive comments, I enjoy helping out I guess thats why I am a coach.

Yes, the QAS will deal with the general public. Some gyms are feeder programs to the QAS, they train gymnasts up and then when they are ready their gym will send them for an evaluation. But they are always happy to look at a child. I don't think your gym will be upset at all if you take her for an evaluation because she is a 5 year old kindergym student. If she was on their competition team or they were training her up for some specific purpose it may bother them. Also when they go to the QAS they still remain members of their current gym and their current gym bets a bit of advertising from the fact they had a kid go to the HPC so its considered quite a bonus.

Kids at the QAS can go to any school they like, but most go to Belmont state school for Primary school and Holland park state High school as there is a bus that takes the kids to and from school and training, making life easier for parents when they pile on the hours. But this shouldn't be an issue at 5.

 

[kalgymcoach]

Things are a bit diffent from state to state and gym to gym. In my gym I have designed a program for Kindy gym that incorporates a lot of basic skills based on Level 1. In turn I have now got a team of girls that did level 1 whilst their were 4 1/2 they have just had another inhouse competition doing level 2 aged 5 1/2. They will do level 3 next year. In our state and syllabus they can compete Level 3 if their are turning 6 on Jan 1st. Which allows them to compete against other clubs. I run both kindy gym and competition gym so I can assess and identify talented gymnasts and put them in their respective levels. I think the only thing stopping your gymnast is her age.