Parents Added Pressure for Young Gymmies

[Pickle's Mom]

If you feel that your daughter’s needs can be met by doing enrichment at home, go for it.

But from the research I’ve done and from my experiences with my child, enrichment isn’t really what an elementary school gifted program is about. And it also isn’t about more homework or putting additional pressure on a child. It’s about giving a child a more accommodating situational learning environment where they can explore academic interests.

I think Pickle has been less stressed since switching schools since she feels like she fits in better with her new peer group. Basically, she’s no longer weird for liking math and drawing schematics during art. And the types of projects she gets at school are a lot less constrained. Many third graders love worksheets because it gives them the framework they need to apply learning. But for my daughter, worksheets were frustrating because it limited what she could accomplish. So, as long as she answers everything her teacher wants, she gets to do her work in an essay.

I’m sure programs vary, and some are far better than others. But, if your child is unhappy in school, adding enrichment at home could just make school even more problematic.

 

[snowbound]

All my kids are in cyber charter schools, so they are home schooled in public school. I would just say explore your options with the gifted program and try to find the best fit. My sons were in a different cyber last year, and I found they were being overly challenged in some areas and totally bored in others. I shopped around, and found a program that is challenging in all areas, but not so much that they hate it. They have completely blossomed this year (they teacher is actually trying to get us to slow down, but they don't want to) They are 6, and needed a more reading-based program.

I would just say that all children, gifted or not, need balance. We as parents are usually sensitive to where that balance lies, so if you are concerned, definitely go through with the testing. Even if they tell you she qualifies, you don't have to move her unless you are sure it will be a good fit.

Snowbound

 

[CanAmGymMum]

I think Pickle's Mom said it perfectly. Get her tested and take it from there. I think people who have given advice in this thread are talking about two separate types of children. Really bright children do not necessarily require the same type of educational environment as gifted children. If she's a really bright child, but not identified as gifted, then she'll probably do fine in a regular classroom with some enrichment at home. As others have said, she may just be an early bloomer and, academically, things may start to level off as she gets a little older. However, if she is gifted, things will not level off and your job is to advocate for your child to put her in HER best learning situation possible. This has nothing to do with adding or taking away stress, adding more work, etc. It has more to do with putting her in an environment where she fits in. Of course, you need to continue to evaluate the situation to ensure that it continues to be her best option. This is her education. Hopefully you can find a fit where she's able to thrive. Good luck and keep us updated. Who said that raising kids is easy?

 

[bogwoppit]

Just to ask, what exactly does gifted mean in the USA? It seems that every school has gifted children in it, are there seriosly that many kids who are so beyond the norm that special programmes are put in place?

No being facetious, but there are no such programmes here and therefore I would like to know the outcomes at the end of education, do these "gifted" children outperform their peers in adulthood. Or is the programme to new to have any data collected in that area.

I am wondering if for some children the process and outcome of being tested, can add more pressure to perform than is needed. I totally understand that some bright children under acheive in school due to bordom etc.

The whole subject is intriguing.

 

[UnoMas]

Just to ask, what exactly does gifted mean in the USA? It seems that every school has gifted children in it, are there seriosly that many kids who are so beyond the norm that special programmes are put in place?

No being facetious, but there are no such programmes here and therefore I would like to know the outcomes at the end of education, do these "gifted" children outperform their peers in adulthood.

Bog, I can speak to my own experience with my oldest. In 2nd grade the school tests ALL 2nd graders. It is a combo of aptitude and skills testing. There are criteria that the kids must meet (96% or above in aptitude OR 94% and above in aptitude AND 98% or above in skills) to be eligible for "gifted" education. (these numbers may not be exactly correct, but..)

Anyway, in our school the "gifted" classes are separate from other classes. They definitely do approach learning in another way. Less worksheets and scripted learning. For my daughter I have found that being among other children who are similar to her in terms of ability, etc., has been a positive thing. Also she is allowed to "think outside the box" more. There are also no limits on how high they can go with their skills. Before she started in the gifted program I was being told by teachers in the 3rd month of school that she was as high as she could go in reading and math for the YEAR! (ridiculous, sad statement about public education, but that's another argument). Since she tested gifted in 2nd grade she is now eligible through middle and high school. I know that there are AP and college prep courses for all kids, so I can't speak to what happens to the kids when they are older as compared to kids in regular AP type classes. I just know that it, right now, is a benefit for my daughter. Hope this helps a bit!

 

[bogwoppit]

Madigym, thanks for your explanation. It sounds like the "gifted" kids are given the kind of education that all kids should be getting.

We have very little rote learning in Quebec, we use cross curricular competencies, as in combining subjects and using them in every day settings. Learning French through phys ed, combining science and language arts etc. The kids do lots of projects and work in teams. RIght now youngest is working on forensic science for English, science and drama, all at the same time. She loves it., lat week they had a CSI thing going on and even the high school teachers got involved with the investigation. Perhaps this is why we do not have gifted programmes.

Kids read and do math at their own level. It makes no sense that a kid cannot continue to read at whatever level she is at, it's not as though there aren't books for them! Smacks of school silliness don't you think.

Can I just say "I hate worksheets", no kid should be subjected to them!!! I also hate colouring books!

It is amazing how different education systems are.

 

[LizzieLac]

A couple of thoughts:

The gifted programs sound like magnate schools here in the US - they have alternate or some would say "progressive" ways of teaching. Subjects are often not taught in isloation, they are combined in a cross-discipline manner like "math-science." They also often apply a theme to their curricula.

Again, wouldn't it be nice if all students had access to learning in ways that are more conducive to their personalities and interests?

Sometimes it bothers me that people (not specifically on this board, but in life) slam the public school system. I realize that some districts are better than others, but I feel that one of the reasons my school system is really GOOD is because of parent involvement...just like what might make a gymnatics program successful. Teachers and coaches have the key role, yes, but parents can add so much to enhance the overall experience.

In my school, we offer before and after school "enrichment" programs - some are sports related, some art, some language, some scientific...you get the point. I volunteered for 3 years to put this program together, getting service providers, working with the principal (he actually had done this at another school). There is a fee usually for the parents, but we also work out "scholarships."

Anyway, my point is this: as a community we have found ways to enhance our schools. We also found a way to make NCLB work for us (and I hate standardized tests).

Last thought. When my DD comes home and says she hates the topic the are learning in Social Studies, I tell her that working through something you don't like is a part of life (sometimes a big part ). I believe we learn coping skills and creative ways of moving forward.... worksheets can have a value too!

Hope I didn't offend anyone. Just a few (hopefully) related thoughts came to mind.

 

[gymmom14]

My non-gymnast daughter (but awesome basketball, softball and soccer player) was just tested for gifted in 4th grade. She was given a brief IQ test at the end of 3rd grade after her teacher suggested her. If she scored an IQ of 125+ she would then be given the full Wexler IQ test and the Wexler Achievement tests with the school psychologist. Based on her performance on those, she would then be selected for gifted. At our school she would attend one gifted class per week. I really don't know much more about it yet.

 

[Megley]

Our school system tests all first graders. The test requires no reading - it is all puzzles. Many kids who test as "gifted" are not reading all that well and might not even be doing all that well in school, but apparently their brains work differently.

I have three children, all of whom I would consider to be very bright, but only my youngest (also my gymnast) tested as "gifted." I have a friend who teaches the gifted 2nd grade class at my kids' school and she has said that "gifted" classes are taught differently because the kids learn differently. I honestly don't know that much about it and would swear to anyone that my 2nd child is the smartest, not my youngest, but what do I know?!

 

[gymjourneymom]

My non-gymnast daughter (but awesome basketball, softball and soccer player) was just tested for gifted in 4th grade. She was given a brief IQ test at the end of 3rd grade after her teacher suggested her. If she scored an IQ of 125+ she would then be given the full Wexler IQ test and the Wexler Achievement tests with the school psychologist. Based on her performance on those, she would then be selected for gifted. At our school she would attend one gifted class per week. I really don't know much more about it yet.

Pretty much the same in our school district. If the child is showing increased academic skills an IQ test done(usually 2nd or 3rd grade). Here they have to score 130 or higher. Then a complete battery of testing is done. Once the child qualifies to the gifted program a Gifted Individualized Learning Plan is developed just for that child. This is a legal document between the school & the parents that this child's learning needs will be met. This whole process can take a while though. In public schools having a GIEP is a godsend. Otherwise kids that are "doing just fine" are over looked & can ge lost in the shuffle. With large classes & the NCLB act, the kids that are struggling get most of the attention. A teacher can only do so much in a day & of course the struggling kids will be his/her priority.

For the most part gifted kids will do "ok" without special classes. But it's so nice to see them florish when their individual needs are met! Like madigymmom00 says...they learn to think outside the box!!! It can send them down a whole different learning path. Instead of just getting thorough the school day unchallenged. They are encouraged seek out learning opportunities. And in elementary school it's usually really fun stuff, not stressful. The best part is these skills & love of learning will follow them through their whole lives. Sure there are many bright kids that do just fine and end up in the AP classes in highschool right along with the gifted kids. But gifted programs in public schools give them a leg up & encouragement to grow their love of learning, instead of stifling it.

Personally, if you think your plan is to keep your DD in public school & she qualifies to the gifted program, I'd go for it in a heartbeat. Gymnastics wouldn't enter into my decision at all. If her gym hours seem to be too much that would be the thing to change, IMHO. There are many good gym programs that practices less hours. The gifted program would open many more doors for her & to me it would take precedence over gymnastics. JMHO. Good luck!

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

Disclaimer: I am not directing my following rant to anyone in particular except to the public education system in our country!!1

Having been in the public school system for several years now, both as a parent and a teacher, I have to say that the whole "GT program" concept really does irritate me to no degree. Bog, I agree with you... this is the type of education that could benefit ALL children. Why is it not offered to all and why do you need to get a special score to attain that education. I have to say, I have seen, through the years, kids get into the program who have not "tested" into it, but have had their parents come to school and scream and threaten lawsuits to get their child into the programs. For example, we have a child in 4th grade right now who cannot read, cannot spell, yet he's in the GT program. So he misses a day of his regular school each week (that he has to make up at home) so he can go outside to the GT program. I do not know why it isn't offered to every child and why we have to have a whole different center that these kids have to be pulled out of their home school to attend. Yes, I do understand that to some it would be an overwhelming choice, then again that's where the word "offered" comes into play. I think it all boils down to funding and politics. It is SOOO competitive here where I live. Every parent wants to claim that their child is the top in their class, that their child is in the futura or spectrum programs (GT); and then of course there's the my child is the youngest and best in whatever sport they play. Sometimes I just want to uproot myself and move to a small town in the mid-west somewhere. I just don't think it's good for the future of our kids.

I see I'm off on my rant again about the public education system, so I'll stop!

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

With large classes & the NCLB act, the kids that are struggling get most of the attention. A teacher can only do so much in a day & of course the struggling kids will be his/her priority.

Absolutely, however, those kids who are struggling that much should have their own IEP and case manager.

 

[gymjourneymom]

Madigym, thanks for your explanation. It sounds like the "gifted" kids are given the kind of education that all kids should be getting.

We have very little rote learning in Quebec, we use cross curricular competencies, as in combining subjects and using them in every day settings. Learning French through phys ed, combining science and language arts etc. The kids do lots of projects and work in teams. RIght now youngest is working on forensic science for English, science and drama, all at the same time. She loves it., lat week they had a CSI thing going on and even the high school teachers got involved with the investigation. Perhaps this is why we do not have gifted programmes.

Kids read and do math at their own level. It makes no sense that a kid cannot continue to read at whatever level she is at, it's not as though there aren't books for them! Smacks of school silliness don't you think.

Can I just say "I hate worksheets", no kid should be subjected to them!!! I also hate colouring books!

It is amazing how different education systems are.

Yeah Bog!!! You hit the nail on the head there!!! Gifted kids are getting the educatution that ALL kids should be getting!!!! Unfortunately that is NOT the case. It is a sorry situation. JMHO.

 

[gymjourneymom]

Disclaimer: I am not directing my following rant to anyone in particular except to the public education system in our country!!1

Having been in the public school system for several years now, both as a parent and a teacher, I have to say that the whole "GT program" concept really does irritate me to no degree. Bog, I agree with you... this is the type of education that could benefit ALL children. Why is it not offered to all and why do you need to get a special score to attain that education. I have to say, I have seen, through the years, kids get into the program who have not "tested" into it, but have had their parents come to school and scream and threaten lawsuits to get their child into the programs. For example, we have a child in 4th grade right now who cannot read, cannot spell, yet he's in the GT program. So he misses a day of his regular school each week (that he has to make up at home) so he can go outside to the GT program. I do not know why it isn't offered to every child and why we have to have a whole different center that these kids have to be pulled out of their home school to attend. Yes, I do understand that to some it would be an overwhelming choice, then again that's where the word "offered" comes into play. I think it all boils down to funding and politics. It is SOOO competitive here where I live. Every parent wants to claim that their child is the top in their class, that their child is in the futura or spectrum programs (GT); and then of course there's the my child is the youngest and best in whatever sport they play. Sometimes I just want to uproot myself and move to a small town in the mid-west somewhere. I just don't think it's good for the future of our kids.

I see I'm off on my rant again about the public education system, so I'll stop!

I agree TQM. It's like the "when is Susie going to Kip?" video. You get parents who want their kids there for the wrong reasons, etc. Just so they can say Susie is "gifted". It's not a good situation. But if a child truly DOES qualify it can be wonderful thing. It ain't perfect but it's what we have to deal with I guess? Or people can pay for private schools.

 

[gymjourneymom]

Absolutely, however, those kids who are struggling that much should have their own IEP and case manager.

Very true TQM. The classroom teacher has to address all of those IEP's of struggling kids. And I think they put more effort into those kids as they probably should. While Little Susie is twiddling her thumbs because she already 'gets' what the teacher has been explaining for 20 minutes. Leading Susie to look out the window & daydream instead of learning anything. I agree the system isn't perfect. But since no one listens to us we have to do what is best for our kids. I've learned I can't change the world...I'm lucky if I can deal with my little part of it & do the best I can for my kids. JMHO.

 

[MdGymMom01]

Our school system is pretty much the same way--they start testing and looking out for the GT kids in 2nd or 3rd grade. These kids that qualify are put in a separate class for that part of the day.

But I do have to say that this whole GT thing and state-wide test scores only turns into a competition. During my son's 3rd grade orientation earlier this year the principal was talking about the school test scores and how they were a little concerned because their overall score dropped a few points from the previous year. She kept stressing how they were going to work harder to bring up the test scores and how it is never too early to start preparing these kids (3rd graders) for college. I understand that college is very important but the pressure that these young kids are put under is ridiculous. There are a lot of kids that are very gifted and can handle the increased workload and pressure so this line of thinking is great for them. But what about the majority of bright kids who "are just average" but not classified as the gifted and talented? And what about the kids that are C students but far from failing, but feel like failures because of this increased pressure to perform and keep pushing the envelope? Sooner or later, the pressure will be too much and these kids will quit trying and give up. They figure, what's the point in trying? I will never be good enough in their eyes.

There is a new movie out that documents the american public school system called "Waiting for 'Superman' ". Here is the link if anyone is interested:

Waiting for "Superman" | Official Site | Take Action

 

[lilgymmie7]

I am astounded, overwhelmed, and a 'huge' bit relieved upon reading all of these posts today. I am right now at work and am on a break from my students, so I thought to check the site about the comments on the OP. Boy oh boy are so many of you hitting the nail on the head about our public school system.
Tumblequeenmom, am I right to say that you are also a teacher? And Bog, you are so right about your assumption of the quality of supposed gifted education being the quality of instruction that we need to provide all students. Unfortunately here in America due to our drastic concern of topping all on this planet via education, etc, we take two big step backwards with every presumed step forward. The poster that stated all of the great things that are happenning in your district, all I have to say is "How awesome!" But that is not the norm in the district I live in and my own children are in.
I know we really do not want to leak out private, individual info. But I need to say that I live in the third largest school district in the U.S. Our district just saw our CEO walk out of his job! What? How now are we to move forward if no one steps in? Our district for years has NOT looked into what is best for the students. As I am typing this, I am realizing that I may need to move in order to really be satisfied. However, doing research shows a lot of school districts are in the same predicament. Moving will take some time to have happen.
Well the school my children are relegated to going to does again very little to challenge any student. I never used the word gifted. That word is very elusive. Albert Einstein's happen, but they are very few. Students in gifted programs have been given options. Even these programs are not 100% better. However, this is what is true for my DD. She was in a class of 44 first graders, now she has 30 first graders. Her teacher is 'old school'. Work sheets are the norm. Antiquated readers rather than authentic literature are used. Critical thinking strategies are not taught. What is stressed in DD's class is 'Perfect' behavior. What is 'Perfect' for/of a FIRST GRADER? My DD reads and writes legibly. Her penmanship is better than my 7th and 8th graders. Heck, she writes in manuscript better than I do. Her rationalization skills are heightened for a 6 yo. I don't know if this makes for a gifted child. What I do know is that in her current school setting her needs will not, can not be met. I am looking for her best interest.
I thank you all seriously for all of these posts because aside from my concerns with my DD, I have begun for myself a silent- for now- war against education as a whole. It has been said that because of NCLB children are quickly being left behind! Core Curriculum is being set in motion that is supposed to get ALL children at 100% in Math and Reading by the year 2014! What- that is the biggest line of crock there has ever been. All children , gifted, 'normal', struggling are suffering and will continue to suffer.
You all are validating the beliefs I have had for my own child nd those I teach. I am a deeply passionate teacher who strives to reach all of my students. But, I tell you, I am feeling the unsurmounting stress placed upon me by the officials who send out these ridiculas mandates. Something has got to give before our children do! I am sorry for using such strong language, but you all are right with what you have said. It bottoms out at what our public schools have to offer. Private schools are not any better. At least not in my area. Gym is Not being factored in here.

I just want to send out this disclamer: I am not a Triptwister! But we need a change in our public school systems.

 

[gymcoach26]

Wow I guess I'm joining in a little late here but I have one more possible solution for you that I don't think has been said. I'm not sure how this really works with homeschooling, so maybe someone more experienced can can help me out here. I know that you would not be able to homeschool because you need both incomes, like most people nowadays! However, are people other than a childs guardian able to homeschool them? Do homeschool "groups" exist where one person can get several kids together and homeschool them together while the parents work? I'm not quite sure how that all works, but it might be something to look into...

 

[Shelovesthebars]

I feel like I personally have some valuable information to add. We have lived in 3 different places with our kids. My husband and I have always agreed that I would stay home, we would buy a house in the best school district possible and that our kids will not get everything they want materialistically because of this. However, because of our priorities, are kids have always had a good school a good neighborhood, a parent at home, and known that they don't get everything the Jones do but they are happy. Our schools have always been public but fantastic. My first daughter was tested as gifted in 4th grade. We let her choose if she wanted to do the program, knowing that our school would be great whatever her descision. She wanted to go for it. She is a type A and she thrived on a challenge. We dropped back her gym hours but somehow she managed to fill these with other things like cheerleading, student council, volunteering for the mentally handicapped, yada yada yada as well as being state math champion. She is in her first year of college studying pre-med on a full scholarship. We decided not to let her cheer so she would have time to study but she was bored so she joined a sorortity.
Our second daughter is probably more gifted but is type B. She tested in but she opted out. She is a cheerleader and just scored a perfect score on her ACT as a senior. Yale called us and came to visit us last year. No gifted instruction, just a good edjucation.
Our 11 year old is on an IEP for ADHD. He tested gifted. He is also a world class diver. We want him in a regular classroom so he can be as normal as possible. He is not disruptive but does get done with his work quickly and works up on math at his own pace in the classroom. He has found other kids he relates well too. We want him to be a kid and he will always be smart but he won't always be 11. We opted for no gifted instruction.
My 9 year old son is normal. Hmm, about time.
My 5 year old is 5. I am going to let her be 5 and play with her dolls, have playdates and go to the gym. I am not even going to think about that with her at this point. This is the reason we buy houses in the best school districts we can find. I want my kids to be kids and get a good education.

 

[lilgymmie7]

I want to apologize for obviously sounding very heated in the previous post. What the last few posters stated truly struck a chord. What's more, my colleague handed me a few newspaper articles. What one article indicated was that Most of the New England states are doing fairly well grade wise, but test wise all states have decreased gradually. Some have made huge down falls in the last six years.
To the last poster, it is really great that your school district is doing a great job. If it were easy to uproot my family and move now I would do it. I am first generation American. I was born here along with my siblings. All my childhood was spent with my immediate family because we had no extended family in this country. My children are living a different exsistence. They have a huge extended family and they all live very close by.
My children have never been given everything. I grew up with the bare minimum and it taught me to be very appreciative of what I did have. This is the same lesson I want my children to also learn. My husband and I both work for the city. We do for many reasons. However, like the old adage goes- Life isn't always greener on the other side, you really don't know what is there until you experience it. Also since NCLB, education in America is not at all what it used to be.
Now I just want to bring it back to my DD. I am merely trying to find what is best for her at this time. I don't want to wait for CPS to get its act together. We are very limited in my area of options as a whole. We do not have gifted or enrichment programs in our schools. We as a city have begun to cut the 'extra' programs. Some schools have suffered serious cuts of teachers and educational programs. I just want my DD to get the most out of her education, but I don't want to add more stress.
Thank you to the previous poster who suggested basically getting a group together and maybe starting a 'home schooling' group. That is a viable solution. I am looking at all that is out there seriously.
What I find interesting is that one simple question opened up the reality of what is going on in our country educationally. Thank you to the poster who put up the link for "Waiting for Superman." This movie opened my eyes. I went to see it and it made me cry. If you haven't seen it, I suggest you do. I am a strong believer of going head first with problems. This is what is spear heading my decisions with my DD. But it also is telling me that my students need me. I Don't think I am superwoman, but I have their best interest in mind. I do take their total learning into consideration when I am in front of them.
Thank you for allowing me to clear up any misconceptions.