MAG Age requirement changes?

[Sasha]

I know this may be a totally ignorant non-USA question - but why May 31st? Is this special or just a random chosen date? Hope it isn't brought in in Australia cos my DS is an end of May birthday! (we are currently ageat Jan 1st)

It's my understanding that because US JO Nationals are in May (somewhere early to middle), that is why the cutoff is at the end of May. Might be awkward to choose a middle date like May 15 - though they probably considered that.

Effectively, this now means everyone competing in an age group (such as "Age 11") will actually be 11 (or soon turning 11 for the latest birthdays).

Currently, with the age cutoff BEFORE season (Sept 1), this meant that for most of the season, and certainly near the end of season when championships occur, many/most winners of the age group "11" (for example) were actually age 12, even over 12.5 for earliest birthdays. So kind of confusing to call them "age 11 winners" when many were closer to 13 than 11. I believe this was the issue they were trying to solve by moving the cutoff date, effectively "renaming" the age groups. But a boy's competitors will remain largely the same with this change - they will, as a group, just now be called "age 12" instead of "age 11", for example.

 

[gracyomalley]

It's my understanding that because US JO Nationals are in May (somewhere early to middle), that is why the cutoff is at the end of May. Might be awkward to choose a middle date like May 15 - though they probably considered that.

Effectively, this now means everyone competing in an age group (such as "Age 11") will actually be 11 (or soon turning 11 for the latest birthdays).

Currently, with the age cutoff BEFORE season (Sept 1), this meant that for most of the season, and certainly near the end of season when championships occur, many/most winners of the age group "11" (for example) were actually age 12, even over 12.5 for earliest birthdays. So kind of confusing to call them "age 11 winners" when many were closer to 13 than 11. I believe this was the issue they were trying to solve by moving the cutoff date, effectively "renaming" the age groups. But a boy's competitors will remain largely the same with this change - they will, as a group, just now be called "age 12" instead of "age 11", for example.

Actually 9 months of birthdays will turn their competition age DURING the season now...so DS and his 3 L9-10 friends will ALL compete as 17-18 year olds while spending all except 1 months of the season 16-17....

Truthfully, there is no "perfect" solution. I personally prefer the system the girls use - age groups are fluid throughout the season and girls often change age group meet to meet...but for likely very good reasons USAG does it this way for the boys...it will benefit some kids this year (my younger, for instance) and hurt others (my older) but once in place it will even out over a few years for the kids coming up...

 

[gracyomalley]

Ok, so our coach sent us copies of the new stuff...I've only begun to sift through it but notice that for L8 and L9 the oldest group is now 13-14 and 15-16....which in the old system would have worked for my older boy, who just turned 16...and is ready to go for L9...sort of. Am I reading this right that my 16 year old will have to jump from L8 to L10 (after jumping from L5 to L7 then doing 4 meets of L8 due to injuries....) if he wishes to compete this next year? He's just finishing 9th grade now,(severe dyslexia, took an extra year in elementary, now a successful AP level student...) so has 3 more years of high school...while 3 year of L10 sounds good, that would be if he was ready for L10....I realize there are "L10s" and L10s....but he told me his coach thought he had to go L9...I am guessing that's because his coach knows he literally JUST turned 16 (came in to get thrown in the pit during his 3 weeks off for his hand injury) and forgot that he'll be counted as a 17 year old next year due to the age changes....

I'm not complaining...I know that there are always kids caught up in changes and this may be his turn to be the one....just trying to make sense of it all....his other L9 friend will be in the same boat...

 

[profmom]

DS's best friend at the gym has his birthday on May 28.

Actually, while I guess they are not making significant changes to older guys' Future Stars routines or the tech sequences, I wonder if they might lower the qualification score for Future Stars nationals to accommodate a bit for the shift in age groups for 3/4 of the boys.

Gracy, I think our coach's plan to deal with situations like your son's is to have the boy compete in the JD division and keep training until he's ready to compete in JO.

 

[gracyomalley]

DS's best friend at the gym has his birthday on May 28.

Actually, while I guess they are not making significant changes to older guys' Future Stars routines or the tech sequences, I wonder if they might lower the qualification score for Future Stars nationals to accommodate a bit for the shift in age groups for 3/4 of the boys.

Gracy, I think our coach's plan to deal with situations like your son's is to have the boy compete in the JD division and keep training until he's ready to compete in JO.

Absolutely certain our state is too small to have a JD division - we don't even have real Xcel for the girls....Most years there are 5-6 L9s statewide and maybe between 3-10 L10s....total....

 

[profmom]

Yeah, I just don't know how they are going to manage it in places without a lot of boys. As someone pointed out earlier, some meets don't even have a separate session for optionals -- that's true even here where we have more than 20 L10s in the state most years.

I guess it is different from the girls though -- you can compete L10 and just not have high start value unless they changed things a lot. And compressing the groups might help him, no?

 

[gracyomalley]

Honestly there are gyms in our state that would have moved him to L10 already - and gyms that would have kept him L7/8....I think if he has to do L10 there will be other kids like him there also, and he'll do reasonably well in 3 (his coach thinks 4) of 6 events - maybe even consistently medal, due to our small region. But he's not too happy about getting out there to count his falls on pommel....the idea of JD would work for him, just like xcel diamond would have been perfect for my DD, but she would have been THE xcel diamond in the state....it is what it is....

DS will have to decide if he's ready to plan his schedule more carefully in order to train more, and bite the bullet and be proud of his power skills and laugh off the difficult things....life I guess....

 

[gracyomalley]

One plus note would be we would have a full L10 team (3 boys)...the team scores would be somewhat amusing overall, but our one level 10 took the team 3rd at state all by himself last year, so....

 

[Sasha]

Actually 9 months of birthdays will turn their competition age DURING the season now...so DS and his 3 L9-10 friends will ALL compete as 17-18 year olds while spending all except 1 months of the season 16-17....

Right, yes - including FS as season that is correct. I was thinking more regular season, and how nearly all boys would be the 'age group age' by State/Regional/Nationals.

Let's see, for age 11 for example..
(using our region's approximate dates)

June-July-Aug-Sep: 11 before FS and JO season
Oct-Nov-Dec: 11 before JO season, turn 11 during FS season
Jan-Feb-Mar: Turn 11 during regular JO season
April-May: Turn 11 at the end of JO season, or shortly after season.

I think that is right?

 

[gracyomalley]

You are correct...I was thinking September through May (so FS and meet prep time through Nationals), probably because those are the kids who will all experience a change.

Its all good - and in a couple years will have worked itself out for most kids. As I mentionned, the old system wasn't great for my younger summer birthday kid, this one isn't great for my late April birthday kid...there's always someone who it doesn't work out for....

I guess I just wish they'd get rid of the whole men's "in age" stuff...then none of this would matter a bit! boys would compete against their age group at whatever level they were proficient at...like the girls....but I admit I probably just don't "get it"....

 

[Sasha]

I guess I just wish they'd get rid of the whole men's "in age" stuff...then none of this would matter a bit! boys would compete against their age group at whatever level they were proficient at...like the girls....but I admit I probably just don't "get it"....

I agree completely! The whole "in age" thing sends the message to all the boys at early levels who aren't the youngest that "you are behind, and therefore, less important."

It doesn't matter that coaches may tell them "don't worry, you can catch up and have a shot at Nationals when you're L10." The message has already been ingrained by the program design that only the youngest competitors are highly valued enough to merit a national competition.

At least on the girls side, you can be any age and still have the highest "target" of nationals available to you as a motivator (even if you never make it). Though there are age-implications for elite and Div 1 opportunities with the girls, those age limits are not built in to the basis of the competition structure as it is for the boys. Very different effect.

 

[skschlag]

I think it is all how your team approaches it. Our boys pay no attention to the in age thing. They just do gymnastics at whatever level they are at. D was out of age one year and we didn't think anything of it. Of course, we had a parent tell me that he was too old to be that level. We never cared.

I think if the coach doesn't mage a big deal about it, the boys won't either.

 

[ZJsMom]

Absolutely certain our state is too small to have a JD division - we don't even have real Xcel for the girls....Most years there are 5-6 L9s statewide and maybe between 3-10 L10s....total....

There is Xcel here. It's probably more common up my way than where you are. It's all over the place in terms of how gyms are using it. Some, ours included, use it as I think it was intended, for rec kids who want a little more and get to do a few meets. Others look like they're training a lot more. I've seen some sessions at our home meet and most of the kids seemed recreational level, but I saw skills as hard as a piked tsuk vault and 1.5 on floor.

 

[ZJsMom]

Honestly there are gyms in our state that would have moved him to L10 already - and gyms that would have kept him L7/8....I think if he has to do L10 there will be other kids like him there also, and he'll do reasonably well in 3 (his coach thinks 4) of 6 events - maybe even consistently medal, due to our small region. But he's not too happy about getting out there to count his falls on pommel....the idea of JD would work for him, just like xcel diamond would have been perfect for my DD, but she would have been THE xcel diamond in the state....it is what it is....

DS will have to decide if he's ready to plan his schedule more carefully in order to train more, and bite the bullet and be proud of his power skills and laugh off the difficult things....life I guess....

Another possibility is that you can specialize in level 10. A lot of our guys specialize and you can still qualify for regionals and nationals as a specialist. If you guy's competitive on 3 or 4, maybe focusing on those events would allow him to get really good at them.

 

[gracyomalley]

Another possibility is that you can specialize in level 10. A lot of our guys specialize and you can still qualify for regionals and nationals as a specialist. If you guy's competitive on 3 or 4, maybe focusing on those events would allow him to get really good at them.

I'm sure he and his coach will come up with something...just wish he could do it one step at a time...Level 9 would have been very realistic if he stays healthy - all 6 events. If they only do some one year can they come back then next and compete all around? Of course he could do that and just scratch events...but do they have to "declare" as event specialists? I know the coach had already planned on focusing on "everything but pommel and high bar" and just coming up with something for those...but that's still competing all around, just stinking at part of it . And its really hard to say what he can do this year - as he was so beat up last season - which is either the way its going to be, or really held him back...only time will tell.

I'm glad to see xcel is growing in the urban part of the state - last time I was at a local meet with xcel was truthfully a couple years ago and I think the highest level kid must have been about a gold? In any case, maybe it will eventually catch on over the mountains here - I know we would have had a lovely Platinum/Diamond team after all the shake ups that went down! I really do think its a nice thing for the kids who are burnt out or have fears - and for the ones that don't want the crazy JO ride in the first place.

 

[ZJsMom]

They don't declare themselves specialists. They can add or drop events. You can actually even do all around at states and qualify as a specialist if they're top 5 (I think) on an event but don't make the AA cutoff.

 

[KellyA]

Are there any changes on the ages that can qualify for nationals? My son turned 12 in May so he'll compete as a 13 year old next year. If he is in L8 can he go to nationals if he qualifies? Thanks!

 

[skschlag]

Unfortunately no. 11-12 yo je can go at level 8, and just 12yo for jo. To do nationals at 13 he has to be a level 9.

 

[2G1B]

Unfortunately no. 11-12 yo je can go at level 8, and just 12yo for jo. To do nationals at 13 he has to be a level 9.

Not that my DS was a level 8 this year; but... what was the age this year to make nationals for JO? Was it also 12 to go to L8 nationals for JO? If so, I guess that a large group of kids basically missed any chance at all of going for level 8. Theoretically, if my son had been an 8 this past season, he was 11 (both by the age group, and for real - he is a late May b-day). So would he have not been eligible? And now next season he is considered 13, so too old. So this means that kids his age this year basically never had a chance to go to nationals at L8, right?

I know I just need to get over it; but again... this is DUMB. This whole age thing is DUMB. Why can't we just do it like the girls??? I think that the new age groups are dumb and annoying; but I can (pretty much have) get over that; but this whole limiting how old you can be to compete level 8 and 9 at all (forget going to nationals, just that you can be too old to even be allowed to compete those levels) is beyond ridiculous and the limiting how old you can be to make it to nationals isn't far behind in the absurdity factor. Especially when you consider how much longer the boys can potentially be in this sport vs. the girls; but the girls still don't put the age restrictions in (outside of programs like TOPS). I feel like jumping up and down and holding my breath until I turn blue. It doesn't actually affect my DS since he is/was NOT even ready to be a level 8 last season, or this season; but there surely were some boys who were who I guess just lost out since this season they were considered 11 and next season are considered 13?

 

[skschlag]

This year it was 11-12 yo for both JE and JO for level 8 Nationals.

I agree. I am not surehow I feel about the "in-age" thing. I really don't like it. I like the minimum ages, but not the maximum ages.

I am thinking that most of the boys that were 11 (and did level 8 last year so could have gone to nationals) and are now 13 can probably go 9. The jump isn't that huge, and many compete without all element groups.

Having been thru one change before, I know that we just have to wait it out and see what happens. It is so frustrating, but it is all we got lol