Coaches Am I Teaching a Stalder Correctly?

[PalmTree]

I've never taught one before. I'd like to have a couple of girls compete it in Level 5 if they get it. They already have the flexibility for it and we've been working sole circles, practicing the entry and compression, etc. They have press to handstand as well. I am currently having them do a drill where they start up on a block and end on the block after the stalder (drill used for clear hips). I spot them by standing facing them on the other side of the bar, then I grab their waist when they come under. They start in a stalder shape and then end with their feet on the bar in a straddle stand and press from there. I have a video that I would love for someone to critique for me! I just don't want to post it publicly, so PLEASE PLEASE message me if you think you can help. Also, the spotting is killing my wrists. My left one feels like it pops out of place, and I'm only lifting kids that weigh about 60 pounds! I have a guy coach who helps me spot, but he doesn't have a lot of gymnastics experience so he basically just lifts them how I tell him to. We only have a high strap bar that doesn't lower…so sometimes I can stack mats underneath it to make it pseudo-low strap bar, but they can't stalder by themselves and I am nervous about how to let them try.

 

[JBS]

Here's some good stuff...

 

[JBS]

This also...

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/t...and-toe-shoot-to-handstand-tips-please.35530/

 

[PalmTree]

Here's some good stuff...

Thanks, that first video especially has some drills that I will use. Everything I've seen on YouTube with this skill seems pretty low strap bar/trench strap bar intensive, so I am bummed that my gym doesn't have that going for me.

The third video…I would die of happiness if my kid could do a stalder like that! We are nowhere near even thinking of that drill right now. I feel like I just don't know how to get them started on this skill. Is it better to just do a clear hip? I thought that since it was a choice in new Level 5, maybe clear hip, stalder, and toe up were all about the same difficulty? We've only been working them for two weeks, so I know I'm being impatient. Also, at what point can you start spotting them by just basically letting them go and pushing on their shoulders as they come around? I feel like if I tried that with my girls, they would crash and burn. But doing it the way I am currently, by spotting at the waist and pulling them up to straddle stand on the bar, I can see that they lose their compression as they reach their toes to the bar and they don't have open shoulders.

 

[JBS]

If you are lifting them...then they aren't too far along yet. Keep working at it...it will pay off in the long run.

I would say that it is better just to do the clear hip at L5. The stalder is very hard to do with no deduction at L5.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Stop pulling them to handstand. Teach them to drop in correctly first (compressing) and finish in a pressing position, (handstand with a hollow body, straddle/piked at the hips with feet about a foot from the bar). Do this for several months. you don't need to teach the handstand part, they will get that when they master the entry and support position. I pm'ed you the rest.

 

[PalmTree]

Thank you both!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Stop pulling them to handstand. Teach them to drop in correctly first (compressing) and finish in a pressing position, (handstand with a hollow body, straddle/piked at the hips with feet about a foot from the bar). Do this for several months. you don't need to teach the handstand part, they will get that when they master the entry and support position. I pm'ed you the rest.

this^^^^ and circle skills need to be worked at the same time. and the root skill for all of them is the free hip. the more free hips the better.

 

[gymdog]

Have they even worked on clear hip drills at all? You need to work on clear hip shoot to support with feet on a wall mat out of a mat against the high bar. And sets of clear hips on strap bar to start then real bar. This will be much easier to establish the rhythm and strength needed. As side stations they can work on various exercises for dropping into Stalder and opening drills on floor and wall support. And stalders are best introduced doing compression straddle swings under the bar and having them go higher. This is obviously easier in straps because they can do more swings. But they could start it on a low bar.

Many exercises are shown in the Gymneo TV Stalder tutorial. This an excellent resource, usually their videos are fairly expensive, but worth it - I have bought two and found drills I haven't seen used in the US before (not saying no one ever has done them but very unusual) or normal drills presented in a way that used equipment making it much easier to set up on the side etc. I highly recommend their videos, I will try to find a link to the Stalder one and post it.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

here you go:

http://gymnasticscoaching.com/new/2013/02/gymneo-stalder-videos/

 

[gymdog]

http://gymnasticscoaching.com/new/2013/02/gymneo-stalder-videos/

Here it is linked to from Rick McCharles. It is in French but you obviously get the idea from watching. It is on their Facebook I believe so it might be easier to log in to Facebook and find the gymneo page. Also it is available on YouTube I think.

 

[PalmTree]

Have they even worked on clear hip drills at all? You need to work on clear hip shoot to support with feet on a wall mat out of a mat against the high bar. And sets of clear hips on strap bar to start then real bar. This will be much easier to establish the rhythm and strength needed. As side stations they can work on various exercises for dropping into Stalder and opening drills on floor and wall support. And stalders are best introduced doing compression straddle swings under the bar and having them go higher. This is obviously easier in straps because they can do more swings. But they could start it on a low bar.

Many exercises are shown in the Gymneo TV Stalder tutorial. This an excellent resource, usually their videos are fairly expensive, but worth it - I have bought two and found drills I haven't seen used in the US before (not saying no one ever has done them but very unusual) or normal drills presented in a way that used equipment making it much easier to set up on the side etc. I highly recommend their videos, I will try to find a link to the Stalder one and post it.

They can do a "fair" clear hip (sometimes to horizontal, sometimes not). We are kind of in the beginning stages of all the circling skills. I guess I didn't realize a clear hip should be taught first. They will be disappointed, because a Stalder looks so "cool"!!

 

[Deleted member D3987]

free hips create a lot of torque. lots of gravitational forces at play. if you learn a free hip, it's more likely than not that you will learn stalders if that's the direction you go.

a free hip is an 'in bar' or closed arm skill. you have to be very strong to open one to a handstand.

a stalder on the other hand, is an 'out bar' skill with an open arm angle. obviously, easier to open up cause the arm angle is already significantly open. but if you can't 'feel' what's going on in the relationship to the bar, and you're not strong enough to know what to do when it's time to open, you end up with a stalder that comes off the bar or collapses in a chest stand.

 

[gymdog]

Well the drop of the clear hip is much more familiar and straightforward to the kids. And it is easier to spot. So to get the reps in fast, it will be easier to do that and then do the Stalder swings and exercises linked in order to get better at the drop. Just spotting on attempts of the full Stalder will be slow going in my opinion...there's too much going on for them to make all the changes they have to. It has to be broken into chunks . And for a lot of kids a toe on will be better anyway in terms of power. Leave all options on the table at this stage...don't limit yourself. Do all shapes and drills front and back. This is the time to introduce it . They can also be working on the monkey swings around the bar in both grips (feet on in straddle).

 

[gymdog]

Two more posts by Rick showing this:

http://gymnasticscoaching.com/new/2010/11/gymnastics-training-sole-circles/


http://gymnasticscoaching.com/new/2010/07/gymnastics-bar-grip-changes/

Be careful they don't fall to skin the cat if you do pike. Straddle is better to start.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

They can do a "fair" clear hip (sometimes to horizontal, sometimes not). We are kind of in the beginning stages of all the circling skills. I guess I didn't realize a clear hip should be taught first. They will be disappointed, because a Stalder looks so "cool"!!

=
We have kids who are better at stalders/ toe on than clear hips and the other way around. All three should be worked,,, also the toe on is a progression for a stalder so you pretty much work both anyways.