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Bar routine question level 10 or elite

ChalkMomma

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Hello!
Can someone tell me what bar skills are required for an optional routine at an elite qualifier meet?
If you could also include the letter/score with the actual skill name that would be so helpful. Right now she has a stalder, toe on, Maloney, pirouette & is working on a pac ( sorry hope I am saying that correctly)
 

ChalkMomma

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Most likely Junior Elite. She received her compulsory score as a hope but that was over a year ago. Never did the optional, she took some time off due to an injury. Recently her coach has been adding new skills/difficulty to her routines. She’s picking them up fairly quickly
 

FlippinLilysMom

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Most likely Junior Elite. She received her compulsory score as a hope but that was over a year ago. Never did the optional, she took some time off due to an injury. Recently her coach has been adding new skills/difficulty to her routines. She’s picking them up fairly quickly
I dont know if there are actual skills required but you want to have enough difficulty to get the average score needed, which for junior elite is about a 13 ( she will need to get a 50.5 to qualify to classics and a 51 at classics to make it to championships). She will need a single bar release and a high to low bar transition (pak or bail) and a low to high bar transition (Maloney, uphill, etc) and most discounts I've been seeing are double layouts or twisting double fulls.
 
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ChalkMomma

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I dont know if there are actual skills required but you want to have enough difficulty to get the average score needed, which for junior elite is about a 13 ( she will need to get a 50.5 to qualify to classics and a 51 at classics to make it to championships). She will need a single bar release and a high to low bar transition (pak or bail) and a low to high bar transition (Maloney, uphill, etc) and most discounts I've been seeing are double layouts or twisting double fulls.
Thanks! That’s helpful. She has her pack, Maloney & double full dismount
 

Jenny

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I dont know if there are actual skills required but you want to have enough difficulty to get the average score needed, which for junior elite is about a 13 ( she will need to get a 50.5 to qualify to classics and a 51 at classics to make it to championships). She will need a single bar release and a high to low bar transition (pak or bail) and a low to high bar transition (Maloney, uphill, etc) and most discounts I've been seeing are double layouts or twisting double fulls.
Not many junior elites score 13 on bars at a qualifier. In fact I looked on the results from the 3 qualifiers listed for 2019 on USAG and only found 3. Most good gymnastics are scoring from high 11 to mid 12. Most others are much lower.

Most gymnasts make up for this on vault. Does she have her other events ready to go?
 
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FlippinLilysMom

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Not many junior elites score 13 on bars at a qualifier. In fact I looked on the results from the 3 qualifiers listed for 2019 on USAG and only found 3. Most good gymnastics are scoring from high 11 to mid 12. Most others are much lower.

Most gymnasts make up for this on vault. Does she have her other events ready to go?
I was just using 13 as a reference, to get a 50.5 one needs to average a 12.625 on each event. You are correct that not many score a 13 on bars but I know for my daughter a 13 is the ultimate goal on each event.
 
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ChalkMomma

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Not many junior elites score 13 on bars at a qualifier. In fact I looked on the results from the 3 qualifiers listed for 2019 on USAG and only found 3. Most good gymnastics are scoring from high 11 to mid 12. Most others are much lower.

Most gymnasts make up for this on vault. Does she have her other events ready to go?
Yes, she does. That’s good to know, she’s pretty strong on vault.
 

gymisforeveryone

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This might be a little off topic, but how many juniors usually score above 50.5? I just watched the Junior Worlds results and there were only 16 gymnasts (out of 106, and these are the best gymnasts from each country!) that scored 50.5 or higher. It seems like a ridiculously high qualification score for juniors!
 

FlippinLilysMom

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This might be a little off topic, but how many juniors usually score above 50.5? I just watched the Junior Worlds results and there were only 16 gymnasts (out of 106, and these are the best gymnasts from each country!) that scored 50.5 or higher. It seems like a ridiculously high qualification score for juniors!
There were only 16 at world trials because they only invited juniors born in 04 and 05.
 
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gymisforeveryone

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I get that, but how many juniors are there in the USA who are able to score 50.5 or higher? And that's not even good enough to qualify to championships... Is the scoring easier in the USA or is it just that you have so many more super high level gymnasts there, that you are able to put the bar that high? I mean, if in the Junior WORLDS there are only 16 gymnasts scoring 50.5 or higher, it seems like a super high score.
I'm just curious, because I'm not familiar with USAG elite (I'm from Europe)
 

ausnat83

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I get that, but how many juniors are there in the USA who are able to score 50.5 or higher? And that's not even good enough to qualify to championships... Is the scoring easier in the USA or is it just that you have so many more super high level gymnasts there, that you are able to put the bar that high? I mean, if in the Junior WORLDS there are only 16 gymnasts scoring 50.5 or higher, it seems like a super high score.
I'm just curious, because I'm not familiar with USAG elite (I'm from Europe)
It's a combination. Domestic scoring is generally higher than international scoring (not just in the US), so getting a 50.5 at one elite qualifier is different than doing it at an event like junior worlds. Especially when you consider that a good portion of the gymnasts that qualify elite try multiple times before achieving the score. Then add in the pressures of being on a stage like junior worlds... there were certainly more than 16 gymnasts at junior worlds who were capable of surpassing 50.5 on a day when they hit well and performed at their best, but of course not everyone has a fantastic 4/4 meet at every competition.

That said, the phenomenal depth of the US program is a HUGE part of what makes it so strong. The best junior age-eligible gymnasts for most countries (excepting top-tier programs) wouldn't qualify elite in the US, and a lot of the routines at junior worlds wouldn't have been competitive at level 10 nationals in the US JO system. Then there are the mid-tier countries that have a handful of gymnasts that can be competitive on the international level at a given time, but lack depth beyond that.
 

FlippinLilysMom

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It's a combination. Domestic scoring is generally higher than international scoring (not just in the US), so getting a 50.5 at one elite qualifier is different than doing it at an event like junior worlds. Especially when you consider that a good portion of the gymnasts that qualify elite try multiple times before achieving the score. Then add in the pressures of being on a stage like junior worlds... there were certainly more than 16 gymnasts at junior worlds who were capable of surpassing 50.5 on a day when they hit well and performed at their best, but of course not everyone has a fantastic 4/4 meet at every competition.

That said, the phenomenal depth of the US program is a HUGE part of what makes it so strong. The best junior age-eligible gymnasts for most countries (excepting top-tier programs) wouldn't qualify elite in the US, and a lot of the routines at junior worlds wouldn't have been competitive at level 10 nationals in the US JO system. Then there are the mid-tier countries that have a handful of gymnasts that can be competitive on the international level at a given time, but lack depth beyond that.
Not to mention that the D scores were capped at junior worlds, they were not allowed to compete any skills higher than an E, I believe. So they had to water down their routines for worlds.
 
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FlippinLilysMom

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43 juniors qualified to the American classic, meaning they all scored at least a 50.5 at a qualifier. I’m not sure of the exact number of juniors that have qualified to championships but I’m guessing it’s around 15-20. The US classic is in 2 weeks, where they will all get another shot at qualifying to championships. So it’s definitely a score that is achievable.
 
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ausnat83

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Not to mention that the D scores were capped at junior worlds, they were not allowed to compete any skills higher than an E, I believe. So they had to water down their routines for worlds.
Very true, I forgot about that. My understanding (could be wrong) was that they could compete F+ elements, but the difficulty value for them was capped at .5 (what it is for an E element). So downgrading in some spots was logical. That said, the portion of gymnasts who are competing significant numbers of F+ elements outside of the top tier programs at the junior level isn't that high to begin with as far as I know. I think that rule probably dropped the top scores down but not necessarily the mid-range or lower ones.
 
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gymisforeveryone

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Thanks for the explanation, I was thinking something like that! I didn't know that F elements weren't rewarded.

The competition is so tense in the US. Almost more tense than internationally. It's kind of sad that most of those high scoring junior elites never get to compete internationally, even if they are at their peak at 14 or 15 and would do awesome if given the opportunity to compete internationally. Is it common that girls who never get chosen for international competition as juniors continue and get chosen as seniors? Or is it unlikely?
 

Freddy's Fred

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Thanks for the explanation, I was thinking something like that! I didn't know that F elements weren't rewarded.

The competition is so tense in the US. Almost more tense than internationally. It's kind of sad that most of those high scoring junior elites never get to compete internationally, even if they are at their peak at 14 or 15 and would do awesome if given the opportunity to compete internationally. Is it common that girls who never get chosen for international competition as juniors continue and get chosen as seniors? Or is it unlikely?
I don't think not getting to compete internationally should be a disappointment. These girls get the chance to compete for college and not many of the international gymnasts have that opportunity. The US is utterly and completely dominant. And how how 'bout that USWNT? They make soccer look very appealing.
 

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