WAG Beam consistency

[Annikins]

Hi all

Just curious...when would you consider beam skills are 'mastered' or ready to compete? What percentage of them would be stuck? (Roughly?) We see even the gymnasts on TV fall off sometimes so presumably not 100%, but just wondering where people would put that 'ready' line? (Obviously you'd want the skill to be safe, but in terms of scoring and competitiveness). Thank you!

 

[MBJ974]

As far as beam skills go, I would say that a gymnast who can hit a skill 3/5 times at practice consistently is ready to compete that skill. Obviously the more hit skills out of 5, the better chance they have of hitting that skill in competition.
As far as mastery, that is a different story. I would say that mastery is rarely falling on that skill, being mentally comfortable competing it, and having impeccable form.

 

[kiwi2406]

There's a big difference between having a skill ready to compete, and having a skill comfortably nailed. For example, at the beginning of the season, a new level 4 may be struggling with her cartwheel, at her first few meets and practices she may be only sticking 60% on the high beam, but that skill is ready to compete because she, more often than not, is hitting, and odds are she will stick in competition.
However, a skill can only be considered 'mastered,' when it doesn't faze the gymnast at competition anymore, doesn't make them nervous, and any fall of the skill would be considered out-of-character and a freak mishap for the gymnast. This often doesn't happen until at least a season of the gymnast competing a skill, no matter how much they have trained it: competition experience is very different.

 

[Aero]

Generally before meet season, I look for a strong majority of entire routines being hit, about 80% - 90%. That being said, I look for a certain amount of consistency on individual skills, too. All of the girls have notebooks and I give them assignments for beam each practice. Whenever they complete their assignment, I give them a slightly more difficult one, and sometimes it can take multiple days or even weeks before a given assignment is completed. Each assignment consists of certain parameters. For example, their back handspring step-out assignment might be the following:

• Total: 10 (this is the maximum amount of turns taken on the skill, successful or not)
• Hit: 8 (this is the number of times the skill must be landed within their total attempts)
• Consecutive: 5 (this is the number of times they have to hit a skill in a row with no falls within their total attempts)
• Stuck: 4 (this is how many hit attempts need to be wobble free out of their total)

I find that giving the girls solid, tangible goals that they can write out and physically see really helps them focus and work dilligently towards them. I also make sure to mention to them when they get super frustrated that they barely missed their goal that even if they don’t hit their goals that day, they are still getting the reps in and are getting plenty of practice on that skill. As an added benefit, I also find that because they have a limited amount of turns on each skill, they put a bit more effort in since every single rep counts. The example above only has four parameters, but I have many others that I add in as well, such as external amplitude (height) for jumps, internal amplitude (split angle) for leaps/jumps, or sureness of execution (no concentration pauses) for skills. I have found that giving multiple parameters helps the girls feel successful even when they don’t accomplish their goal because they probably increased at least one of their numbers. The girls then have to hit one or two full routines after their assignments. I occasionally do cold routines (no warm-up whatsoever) right at the start of the beam rotation where, if they hit, they don’t have to do any more routines that day.
As a side note, when they have completed all assignments for that day, they can train more advanced skills. Also, if I see a lull in the training, or the girls are a little bored or are dragging through a practice, I will introduce a new skill or have them work on next level stuff.

Contrary to most male coaches, I actually enjoy coaching balance beam. It helps me to understand the mental aspect of the sport better, and to intimately learn the confidence levels and coping mechanisms of each of my athletes.

I hope this was helpful!

 

[Aussie_coach]

I would not consider a skill to be competition reach if they are only hitting it 3 out of 5 times, or 60%, I would say a skill is ready to compete if the gymnast is confident with it and hits it close to 100% of the time.

This may be a difference we see in here, versus the US. We would on,y consider a gymnast ready to compete the next level if they have 100% of the skills for that level.

 

[Annikins]

We are in Britain, and I would say there seems to be variation here between different gyms, so I was curious of other countries/gyms. Thanks for your answers. It seems like there is a variation between 60% to almost 100%. I would say my dd's gym would be around the 60% mark, but some of our competitors parents have been gasping and seeming shocked when one of our girls falls, as if to say that theirs never do, which I found a bit weird - surely everyone falls sometimes?! But then I started to wonder whether 60% was really unusual, and everyone else is nearer 100%? My dd gets very nervous in competition, so is less likely to hit, unfortunately, although she's still very young and hopefully will gain confidence. The problem is she only tends to do each routine at one competition, so it's either ready or it's not, which is why I was curious. For those that are aiming at the 100% - are you at high-performing gyms, where you would expect your girls to medal? For those at 60%, are you happy if they pass the level, even if they don't medal? Maybe that is the difference? I think our gym is aiming at passing the levels at this age, and I think would try to tidy up/gain greater consistency further down the line...

 

[CLgym]

It's worth noting that consistency at practice does not necessarily translate to consistency at meets for some girls. My DD hits her beam routine at least 80% of the time at practice, probably more, but falls on beam at almost every meet. Meet adrenaline, stress, lack of confidence, etc. all contribute to her wobbly meet performance, I think. And she almost always falls on the same skill (full turn) rather than the newer acro skills (this year its BWO-BHS connection). I agree with @Aero that beam provides a lot of insight into a gymnast's mindset.

 

[Aussie_coach]

We are in Britain, and I would say there seems to be variation here between different gyms, so I was curious of other countries/gyms. Thanks for your answers. It seems like there is a variation between 60% to almost 100%. I would say my dd's gym would be around the 60% mark, but some of our competitors parents have been gasping and seeming shocked when one of our girls falls, as if to say that theirs never do, which I found a bit weird - surely everyone falls sometimes?! But then I started to wonder whether 60% was really unusual, and everyone else is nearer 100%? My dd gets very nervous in competition, so is less likely to hit, unfortunately, although she's still very young and hopefully will gain confidence. The problem is she only tends to do each routine at one competition, so it's either ready or it's not, which is why I was curious. For those that are aiming at the 100% - are you at high-performing gyms, where you would expect your girls to medal? For those at 60%, are you happy if they pass the level, even if they don't medal? Maybe that is the difference? I think our gym is aiming at passing the levels at this age, and I think would try to tidy up/gain greater consistency further down the line...

Expecting close to 100% consistency for us (and most gyms around here) is not due to high performance (even the very red type gyms expect similar) or to medal. It’s about safety and not setting a kid up to fail. If they only have a 60% success fate, the odds are very high that they will fall at competition.

 

[Peachy88]

It's worth noting that consistency at practice does not necessarily translate to consistency at meets for some girls. My DD hits her beam routine at least 80% of the time at practice, probably more, but falls on beam at almost every meet. Meet adrenaline, stress, lack of confidence, etc. all contribute to her wobbly meet performance, I think. And she almost always falls on the same skill (full turn) rather than the newer acro skills (this year its BWO-BHS connection). I agree with @Aero that beam provides a lot of insight into a gymnast's mindset.

And the opposite. My kid misses in practice a lot but rarely in a meet!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

It's worth noting that consistency at practice does not necessarily translate to consistency at meets for some girls. My DD hits her beam routine at least 80% of the time at practice, probably more, but falls on beam at almost every meet. Meet adrenaline, stress, lack of confidence, etc. all contribute to her wobbly meet performance, I think. And she almost always falls on the same skill (full turn) rather than the newer acro skills (this year its BWO-BHS connection). I agree with @Aero that beam provides a lot of insight into a gymnast's mindset.

This is mine. I remember that DFC. She could hit that cartwheel nearly every time in practice. Her hit rate In Meets was 30%. When she hit she was a high 9 podium finisher. But only a third of the time.

 

[raenndrops]

If they only have a 60% success fate, the odds are very high that they will fall at competition.

Actually, it would depend on the gymnast ... for a gymnast that is consistent from practice to a meet, the odds of them failing in competition is 40% but the odds of them making it is 60%.
For a gymnast that competes better than she practices, the odds of success actually go up from there.
For a gymnast that doesn't compete as well, the odds of success may go down, but that still doesn't mean it is unsafe. It just means they may fall.

A. We had a gymnast that could have no fall beam routines in practice 3/3 or 5/5 and even hit all her skills in warm ups, but didn't have a no fall beam routine until her 3rd year on team (old Level 6).

B. YG hits her high bar kip in practice 1/20 and is 1/2 or lower in meet warm ups, but she has hit the kip in competition SOOOO much more than those numbers would make you expect at 8/11.

 

[Annikins]

Phew! Busy day! Happy Christmas all!

Thanks all, and it's interesting to see the differences between countries/gyms. Yes, I agree I definitely want the skill to be safe, but to me that means landing it securely close to 100%, which my dd does with all the skills she's doing at the moment. But sticking it is more tricky for her, not sure why. And to be honest, more practise doesn't really seem to be helping the 'sticking' percentage. But it does seem like she sticks the harder skills just as much, if not more, than the 'easy' skills... Roughly how long do you think is average to get to almost 100% consistency with regards to 'sticking' a skill from the first time you land it? (She trains 15 hours per week)?

She is 8 years old, and has learnt a lot of skills on beam in the last 18 months (I think? Again not sure what the average is...!) - cw, bwo, bhs to 1, bhs to 2 and connections with them, ro, cwbt dismount, front somi dismount, full spin, various jumps/leaps and probably some others that don't spring to mind, and I'd say probably only the cw is getting close to 100%, but the bhs is at least as consistent as the bwo - is that weird? She is more powerful than flexible so maybe that's why? Maybe just needs more time to 'embed' them?

It's interesting that some people on here equate falling once on a beam routine at a competition is 'failing' - I must admit our squad girls just jump back up, carry on, and don't really expect to stick a whole routine - it's a major celebration if they do!! But if everything else goes well they still feel like they've had a good day! And I am relieved at that, otherwise she would feel like she had 'failed' at all four competitions last year, which I would hate!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

There is no average/expected time frame. It truly is gymnast/skill dependent

 

[Annikins]

I know there are probably huge variations, but I suppose maybe an idea of when a coach would start to get fed up with the gymnast's inconsistency would be a guide of when they feel like they've taken 'too long' to stick the skill consistently?!

 

[Deleted member 18037]

I know there are probably huge variations, but I suppose maybe an idea of when a coach would start to get fed up with the gymnast's inconsistency would be a guide of when they feel like they've taken 'too long' to stick the skill consistently?!

That probably varies very much among coaches lol

 

[Annikins]

Haha! Fair point!