WAG Beam questions

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Annikins

Proud Parent
Hi all, just wondered if you could help me with a couple of questions as I don't want to become 'that parent' and keep asking the coach! I am in the UK if that's relevant.

1. The routine requirement includes a bwo bhs connection. If my daughter feels a little off balance during/after the bwo, is she better to pause, regain balance, then do the bhs, so losing the connection but not falling, or ploughing on with the bhs knowing she's likely to fall (after landing safely first of course). I mean from a marks point of view, which should she choose?

2. She has been asked to suggest some ideas for the dance in the routine and is looking for inspiration. Do you know anyone's beam routine that has nice choreography that she could watch for ideas?

Thank you so much!
 
I can't help you with #1. As for beam choreography, I know nothing. But I can say I absolutely love Sanne Wevers on Beam (Netherlands, won gold in Rio). Her routine relies more on the dance elements than the power tumbling on beam. It's just beautiful to watch. Very different than the US gymnasts. Might be a good one to show your dd.
 
I’m in US. So not sure if rules are different. But in JO USAG, a fall is a .5 deduction. A missing skill is also .5. If that bwo, bhs is a required skill then she would get that missing skill deduction. You could also get deducted for the missing connection. I asked my daughter and it is her experience that stopping in the middle would get you more deductions. She would rather attempt the series. If your daughter has another series she can use later in the routine, she can stop in the middle, take a couple steps and attempt series again. But remember if you do a skill three times, the third time won’t count.
 
Hi all, just wondered if you could help me with a couple of questions as I don't want to become 'that parent' and keep asking the coach! I am in the UK if that's relevant.

1. The routine requirement includes a bwo bhs connection. If my daughter feels a little off balance during/after the bwo, is she better to pause, regain balance, then do the bhs, so losing the connection but not falling, or ploughing on with the bhs knowing she's likely to fall (after landing safely first of course). I mean from a marks point of view, which should she choose?

2. She has been asked to suggest some ideas for the dance in the routine and is looking for inspiration. Do you know anyone's beam routine that has nice choreography that she could watch for ideas?

Thank you so much!

My daughter had this series 2 years ago, in the US. Not sure if things are the same, but, when she did it she was allowed to redo the back walkover once if the first one felt off. She had to go for the series the second time though, because you can’t do the back walkover 3 times.

Best of luck to your daughter!
 
My DD did this series (BWO-BHS) in the US JO L7 last year -- If she felt her BWO was a bit crooked, she would stop, randomly pose, step forward, and re-do the entire connection (although the second time she would do a Handstand-BHS, which is an easier connection for her but still counts in JO if the HS is held long enough). Not sure if a 'back up plan' like this (she could re-do the BWO-BHS) would work for your daughter?? Her coaches should know...
 
Thank you! I'm trying to convince her to ask her coach but she still finds it really difficult! And I'm sure the coach would rather I didn't interfere!
 
Thank you! I'm trying to convince her to ask her coach but she still finds it really difficult! And I'm sure the coach would rather I didn't interfere!

Try not to support the option to stop and do it over. Just tell her to keep trying to do the series and she’ll eventually get it. If she thinks there is another option, she’s likely not push too hard to get it. When does her season start?
 
Sorry, I meant she finds asking the coach difficult (she's still only 8 and I'm hoping she'll get more confident with age!) The series she is happy working on, lands it pretty much every time, but only sticks it maybe 50%? But when it goes wrong it's nearly always the bwo that makes it go wrong (apparently, according to her!) Competition is in September but she'll only do one or maybe two comps so quite a bit of pressure on them!
 
Try not to support the option to stop and do it over. Just tell her to keep trying to do the series and she’ll eventually get it. If she thinks there is another option, she’s likely not push too hard to get it. When does her season start?

I hear this from coaches all the time and it drives me nuts: it's not only completely illogical, but it sets an athlete up for an unnecessarily low score when they inevitably make a mistake because mistakes happen to everyone. A few years ago, a top coach cost a figure skater an Olympic medal because he didn't want the athlete to know the best recovery options if he made a predictable mistake on his hardest element that I'm certain he made in practice many times.

Encourage her to ask the coach; it's a good opportunity to learn a generalizable rule. In the U.S., generally athletes can repeat an element twice for credit, which means that if an athlete is doing BWO-BHS or BHS-LOSO, if they fall on the first element, they can repeat the whole series - but if they're doing BHS-BHS and fall on the first BHS, they need another option because they won't get credit for three BHS. However, the U.K. compulsory levels seem very strict, so there might be another recovery option that she should know.
 
I hear this from coaches all the time and it drives me nuts: it's not only completely illogical, but it sets an athlete up for an unnecessarily low score when they inevitably make a mistake because mistakes happen to everyone. A few years ago, a top coach cost a figure skater an Olympic medal because he didn't want the athlete to know the best recovery options if he made a predictable mistake on his hardest element that I'm certain he made in practice many times.

Encourage her to ask the coach; it's a good opportunity to learn a generalizable rule. In the U.S., generally athletes can repeat an element twice for credit, which means that if an athlete is doing BWO-BHS or BHS-LOSO, if they fall on the first element, they can repeat the whole series - but if they're doing BHS-BHS and fall on the first BHS, they need another option because they won't get credit for three BHS. However, the U.K. compulsory levels seem very strict, so there might be another recovery option that she should know.
And that option is one that the coach will tell her, probably closer to competition season. Kids do push less hard when you tell them there is another option, even if it won’t score as well. Focus on getting it now, telling a kid what to do when they fall can happen a week or 2 before competition (or even during competition)
 
I hear this from coaches all the time and it drives me nuts: it's not only completely illogical, but it sets an athlete up for an unnecessarily low score when they inevitably make a mistake because mistakes happen to everyone. A few years ago, a top coach cost a figure skater an Olympic medal because he didn't want the athlete to know the best recovery options if he made a predictable mistake on his hardest element that I'm certain he made in practice many times.

Encourage her to ask the coach; it's a good opportunity to learn a generalizable rule. In the U.S., generally athletes can repeat an element twice for credit, which means that if an athlete is doing BWO-BHS or BHS-LOSO, if they fall on the first element, they can repeat the whole series - but if they're doing BHS-BHS and fall on the first BHS, they need another option because they won't get credit for three BHS. However, the U.K. compulsory levels seem very strict, so there might be another recovery option that she should know.

It is not illogical at all. There is a reason you “hear it all the time from coaches”. They have to push what the gymnast needs and back up is only when all else fails. There are just too many variables to assume that had this figure skater been made aware of “recovery options” she would have had a clear state of mind to perform the recovery option and/or been able to perform it successfully. There is no way anyone, not the coach or the skater, would know this information would have helped. Everything at this point are assumptions, wishful thinking and not based on facts.

Additionally, the gymnast is 8 years old! At that age, you want to give them less options. My daughter was a 5 year Level 10 gymnast and she has a handful of back up plans if something goes wrong. And do you know how many times she’s had actually applied those back ups? Very very few, if any. Once kids (even Olympic athletes) make a mistake, particularly on beam, they get rattled. And getting back their composure and confidence is sometimes the only thing they can handle at that point.

Lastly, I answered the OP’s question about deductions in both scenario in my first post. My second post was merely a suggestion based on my personal experience.
 
Thanks all! I can see both sides. I did a different sport, and always had a few options of how I would deal with things that came up during the competition, so I personally do prefer that approach. Plus my daughter always asks 'what do I do if this happens' and it seems to help with her anxiety/nerves if there is an answer/solution. I must say she is pretty ambitious in terms of trying to get skills/series, so I'm not too worried about her motivation - she is incredibly motivated!! At the moment every time her coach offers her this or that eg full spin/double spin, she is saying to put everything in for now, and see how it is nearer the time! But I can see that if the gymnast has doubts about a skill, it might give them more determination to get it if they think it's the only option. I really appreciate all the replies - thank you!
 
Thanks all! I can see both sides. I did a different sport, and always had a few options of how I would deal with things that came up during the competition, so I personally do prefer that approach. Plus my daughter always asks 'what do I do if this happens' and it seems to help with her anxiety/nerves if there is an answer/solution. I must say she is pretty ambitious in terms of trying to get skills/series, so I'm not too worried about her motivation - she is incredibly motivated!! At the moment every time her coach offers her this or that eg full spin/double spin, she is saying to put everything in for now, and see how it is nearer the time! But I can see that if the gymnast has doubts about a skill, it might give them more determination to get it if they think it's the only option. I really appreciate all the replies - thank you!

The bolded section is standard. What I am saying is back up plans during competition; practice/training is a whole different story. Once the coach has decided on a routine, I think, for new gymnasts at least, preparing for competition with one routine in mind will likely produce better results than having to think about “what ifs”.
 
My DD did this series (BWO-BHS) in the US JO L7 last year -- If she felt her BWO was a bit crooked, she would stop, randomly pose, step forward, and re-do the entire connection

This is what my daughter does...she has done it a couple of times and usually gets good scores. Better than falling or not completing the series
 
Thanks all for your replies!

I caved in the end and asked the coach for her - apparently in England a fall is 1 mark, but a pause in the connection is only 0.5. She took the pause as she really wanted a stuck routine but ended up coming off on her full spin instead :( !

She did manage to ask the coach a couple of questions about her floor routine though, so that's progress!
 
Yes I would be very wary asking questions about routines here as the US system is so very different. They have much much lower deductions and are able to repeat moves for DV. If you do , make sure you state clearly you are in the UK and under a different system. I'm glad she found the answer and hopefully she will get that connection next time.
 
I have a question for everyone about the doing a skill 3 times rule a few of you mentioned- my daughter's level 7 routine right now has a bwo-bwo, a bhs, and a bwo-tuck dismount. Does the bwo-bwo connection count as two bwo, thus making the bwo before the tuck unnecessary? I'd hate to see her doing an extra skill that won't count for anything??
 

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