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Also - when I was younger I had my own set of uneven bars and my own gymnastics trampoline in my back yard.

It is safe is she is just practicing the skills she can already do. I would not encourage her to learn overly new skills until she is confident enough in the gym first. "Baby giants" a.k.a long swing pullovers are quite harmless really there is not much danger there - if her legs dont make it over they will just fall back down again and she will still be holding the bar anyway and there is a mat under her.
 
Does your daughter have no desire to practice at home? I cannot keep DD from practicing. She does leaps through the mall and pivot turns in line at Walmart. Nobody makes her practice at home. She does it because she loves it. There is never enough gym time. At dinner time or shower time or bed time it's always "can I do just one more [insert skill]? Please!!!"

Oh of course Shawn, my dd absolutely cartwheels or fwd rolls from one room to the next. You would know us if you saw us on the street or at the amusement park (store, etc.) - trust me LOL :D.She loves to be upside down - she dangerously swings on her little trapeze part of her swing set upside down (which I hate). I have to tell her constantly no flipping outside of the gym, she is not allowed - still does and then says ooops. I have nothing against play practicing at home, our dd's are gymnasts and they can't help it :p. I have no problem with the equipment at home - I know my dd would love that too, and I would never be able to get her off;) (playing). My problem is the methodical, planned deliberate practice... this is where I feel parents need to draw the line. These kids are in the gym enough, leave the coaching to the coaches, and don't allow this type of of practice at home - my biggest why to all of this is burn out (not the only reason, but the biggest). I have seen more kids come and go simply because of their parents over the last year and a half, and this should not be so. You may not believe me or agree, but you could actually be causing her recent bar problems... as soon as she struggled with something you jumped to try and make it easy. You then set up ways at home to help her over her hurdle. Let her work it out herself a little. Gymmies are going to get frustrated - soooo frustrated (gymnastics only gets more difficult). Your dd will be frustrated many, many times over the next couple of years. You could go through all of this at home to help her, she gets the skill back and time to move to level 5 she could LOSE the skill all over again - gymnastics is fun, but is also one crazy head trip, so we as parents need to try and keep things real for our kids. These lower levels should be about fun, not about who gets the skill first or does it the best.

These are just examples, because I have seen kids get pushed and lose backward tumbling, bwo's on beam, handstand dismounts - even a beam cartwheel. Comfort and confidence are a better mix with patience and time rather then more deliberate practice.

On the grips, is it possible her grips are too small? Without looking back on the original posts, I can't recall if you said they were buckle grips or not - our dd's may use the same grips.... did coach (or you) sand out the holes for her? She may need a size 1. If all is a perfect fit, then why not see if your gymmie wants to do some tap swinging at home on her bar. It sounds as if her coach prefers the grips, so this will be a great way for her to break them in without any class pressure. Give her a few weeks of this and then have her try them again in class. :D
 
And the grip debate continues! Seems that everyone has a different philosophy on when and if to start grips so I figured I'd add my two cents! Grips can be very helpful for the bigger swinging skills like giants and even a little bit on longhang kips. Since she's not doing any of those skills yet, she shouldn't have to use grips. And grips do not prevent rips - they just make you rip in different places! Although the ripping is usually decreased.

I'm guessing her hands are too little for grips. When I coached high school I had one kid with very small hands and grips would make her peel all the time. After she fractured her elbow peeling off for the second time, we made her go gripless and everything was fine.

I sometimes get my kids who are starting kips the palm grips. There's no need for dowels at that point, kips are rough on the hands and the grips help that, it gives them a bit of the feel of using grips, and their smaller hands can handle it.

Brand of grip matters a lot. I use Reisport, but those grips have very thick leather that may not be good for a young child. Grips ETC sells narrow grips that might help: Grips Although I suspect your daughter is simply not ready for them, and I wouldn't force her. She can do high-level gymnastics without them, but I suspect around level 7-8 she'll get curious and be able to use them successfully at that point or she'll start ripping a lot and want to use them.

Grips
 
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And the grip debate continues! Seems that everyone has a different philosophy on when and if to start grips so I figured I'd add my two cents! Grips can be very helpful for the bigger swinging skills like giants and even a little bit on longhang kips. Since she's not doing any of those skills yet, she shouldn't have to use grips. And grips do not prevent rips - they just make you rip in different places! Although the ripping is usually decreased.

I'm guessing her hands are too little for grips. When I coached high school I had one kid with very small hands and grips would make her peel all the time. After she fractured her elbow peeling off for the second time, we made her go gripless and everything was fine.

I sometimes get my kids who are starting kips the palm grips. There's no need for dowels at that point, kips are rough on the hands and the grips help that, it gives them a bit of the feel of using grips, and their smaller hands can handle it.

Brand of grip matters a lot. I use Reisport, but those grips have very thick leather that may not be good for a young child. Grips ETC sells narrow grips that might help: Grips Although I suspect your daughter is simply not ready for them, and I wouldn't force her. She can do high-level gymnastics without them, but I suspect around level 7-8 she'll get curious and be able to use them successfully at that point or she'll start ripping a lot and want to use them.

Grips

I think this is great advice and you are clearly very knowledgable... my only problem with this is that if a coach requires grips, then a gymnast (even at this level) must find a way to make it work. In a perfect world a coach could just say wait, give it time - as in this OP gymnasts case. But my dd's gym is a good example of how this may not be the case... coach will NOT let the kids do any skills (only conditioning) from pre-team on without the grips that he insists on (dowel). Coaches rules, and we are all limited to what the gym's requirements are. We have never had a single gymnast not able to work it out... sometimes they have just had to be a little creative:)
 
I appreciate everyone's advice. DD is doing great now, without the grips. Her hands are fine, no rips, she doesn't even need tape. So for now, this is how things will be. Her grips will be available to her to use at home should she decide to try them but no pressure. It doesn't bother me a bit if she never uses them. She wouldn't be the first.

As to practicing at home, we don't do "methodical, planned deliberate practice." We make a secure, safe environment available to her and we make sure she's doing skills safely and correctly. But no one makes her practice any time or for any length of time. We just support her when she wants to do it. She wanted to get the jump to the high bar. We found a way for her to practice that at home without the pressure of the other girls and the gym. But in no way did we force her to practice it. She does it because she loves it and wants to get the skills. We just do what we can to help her be safe while still learning what she wants to learn. That's all.
 
I appreciate everyone's advice. DD is doing great now, without the grips. Her hands are fine, no rips, she doesn't even need tape. So for now, this is how things will be. Her grips will be available to her to use at home should she decide to try them but no pressure. It doesn't bother me a bit if she never uses them. She wouldn't be the first.

As to practicing at home, we don't do "methodical, planned deliberate practice." We make a secure, safe environment available to her and we make sure she's doing skills safely and correctly. But no one makes her practice any time or for any length of time. We just support her when she wants to do it. She wanted to get the jump to the high bar. We found a way for her to practice that at home without the pressure of the other girls and the gym. But in no way did we force her to practice it. She does it because she loves it and wants to get the skills. We just do what we can to help her be safe while still learning what she wants to learn. That's all.

Sounds like you have a good handle on what your dd wants and needs. Best of luck to you guys:)
 
I have no clue when to add grips, but 99% of gymnasts in this country do wear grips for L7 and up gymnastics. Most start at L5 when they jump to high bar. The transition is difficult from bare hands to grips, but would you rather have that transition at L5 or L7? I GUARANTY you'd rather have it at L5. Sure, there are exceptions of great gymnasts or even nearly entire foreign countries that don't wear grips, but c'mon, are you kidding me that NOT wearing dowell grips from L7 and up is recommended? No way. (I'm speaking rhetorically, not at anyone in particular).

Yes, kids hands are small. There are international elites in this country in 000 grips, but they do wear them.

I believe it is dangerous to do anything but the dance skills at home and have also never heard of a coach recommending flipping or bar work at home. Not my gym, not my coach, and fortunately not my child who has been injured.
 
LemonLime & Ingymmom.... I see both of your points...in fact we're dealing with these issues right now at level 7! DD has worn palm grips since level 5. Between level 5 & 6 she was told to switch to dowel grips. I got them for her...but she hated them & never tried to get used to them. She competed 5 & 6 in palm grips...state champ each year! Now here we are at level 7... having a heck of a time getting her to wear the dowel grips! She knows she needs to switch b/c the palm grips are interfering with her hand positoning for giants. But she can't do much with the dowels on...can't even kip in them! It's awfully difficult for her to go from being state champ...to losing her kip just b/c she's not used to the dowel grips!!!!! Now she is behind in skills from all of her teammates, who made the switch back when they were told to. I really wish the coach would have enforced her switching back then to...instead of what she is dealing with at this point. They knew better than her & I don't think they should have left it up to her...but she was winning & no one wanted to mess with that. Now she's paying the price.
 
LemonLime & Ingymmom.... I see both of your points...in fact we're dealing with these issues right now at level 7! DD has worn palm grips since level 5. Between level 5 & 6 she was told to switch to dowel grips. I got them for her...but she hated them & never tried to get used to them. She competed 5 & 6 in palm grips...state champ each year! Now here we are at level 7... having a heck of a time getting her to wear the dowel grips! She knows she needs to switch b/c the palm grips are interfering with her hand positoning for giants. But she can't do much with the dowels on...can't even kip in them! It's awfully difficult for her to go from being state champ...to losing her kip just b/c she's not used to the dowel grips!!!!! Now she is behind in skills from all of her teammates, who made the switch back when they were told to. I really wish the coach would have enforced her switching back then to...instead of what she is dealing with at this point. They knew better than her & I don't think they should have left it up to her...but she was winning & no one wanted to mess with that. Now she's paying the price.

Why is she wearing palm grips? Do her hands rip a lot? Is it possible for her to train with no grips at all?
 
Why is she wearing palm grips? Do her hands rip a lot? Is it possible for her to train with no grips at all?


It generally is not advisable to train without dowel grips at L7 and up and her child is L7. It is not just because of rips (one of my children never ripped on her palms ever in her entire life, in fact), but also because of safety. The dowel helps the gymnast stay on the bar.

I think you are asking about palm grips, though, and I have no opinion either way. Most gyms who consistently have upper optionals (probably 90% of them) put gymnasts in dowel grips at L5 and never use palm grips ever. Palm grips are rare, but they are certainly used (I've never been to a gym or known anyone at gym that has used them, but I can't say either way if they're advisable or not).

The problem is that kids will nearly always have to transition to dowel grips in this country and putting it off until L7 can temporarily hold back a gymnast when they are most trying to push ahead (e.g., make a jump from L5 to L7, add in new giants, etc.) which is emotionaly difficult and could, conceivably, lead to them not learning the bar skills they need on time.

Having said that, I'm sorry for the poster whose child is struggling to kip now that she's having to switch over from palm to dowel. Once she transitions, however - and that may take 4-8 weeks - her beautiful bars will return and it will work out ok. It's like riding a bike, as soon as it clicks, she'll be a great bike rider and a great bar worker (again) almost immediately. Hang in there.

I have children doing single rail release moves in 000 and 00 Just Right grips. They are dowel grips but narrow and help kids with small hands. If someone is having trouble transitioning into dowel grips, they might be worth a try. The only problem with them that we have encountered is that once a gymnast starts doing 15+ skills in a bar routine (L10 sometimes and hopes/preelite/elite) they are too small to hold as much chalk as regular grips. They can lose chalkiness by the time the big dismount comes which can make the gymnasts uncomfortable. That's usually a time to switch out of the narrow dowel grips and into "regular" ones.
 
My thoughts are that there are a number of elite/Olympic gymnasts who don't use grips at all. I know they are common in this country but it is clearly possible to do the skills without them so why push? If a gymnast can do all the training and skills without grips then let them.
 
As to practicing at home, we don't do "methodical, planned deliberate practice." We make a secure, safe environment available to her and we make sure she's doing skills safely and correctly. But no one makes her practice any time or for any length of time. We just support her when she wants to do it. She wanted to get the jump to the high bar. We found a way for her to practice that at home without the pressure of the other girls and the gym. But in no way did we force her to practice it. She does it because she loves it and wants to get the skills. We just do what we can to help her be safe while still learning what she wants to learn. That's all.

A little off-topic, but I find team practices are tailored to meet the needs of the group as a whole. This may mean that some individual needs are not met. Say your daughter is having trouble with her jump to high bar. The coach will probably use the same drills for everyone which may or may not be the right drill for your daughter. She'll get the skill eventually, but she might have gotten it faster with a different method. It sounds like your child is very in-tune with her body and what it will take for her to get individual skills. It is wonderful that she has this awareness at such a young age. I'd encourage her to start communicating this stuff to her coaches. Her coach can maybe let her do a different drill or stay after practice for a few minutes to work on something if she needs some time work work without her teammates watching. Eventually she won't be able to work her skills at home (and I'm with the rest of the coaches - not a fan of at-home practice!), and she'll need to work with her coaches to find the best way for her to be coached.
 
A little off-topic, but I find team practices are tailored to meet the needs of the group as a whole. This may mean that some individual needs are not met. Say your daughter is having trouble with her jump to high bar. The coach will probably use the same drills for everyone which may or may not be the right drill for your daughter. She'll get the skill eventually, but she might have gotten it faster with a different method. It sounds like your child is very in-tune with her body and what it will take for her to get individual skills. It is wonderful that she has this awareness at such a young age. I'd encourage her to start communicating this stuff to her coaches. Her coach can maybe let her do a different drill or stay after practice for a few minutes to work on something if she needs some time work work without her teammates watching. Eventually she won't be able to work her skills at home (and I'm with the rest of the coaches - not a fan of at-home practice!), and she'll need to work with her coaches to find the best way for her to be coached.

I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. The coaches don't do drills specific to one child. They run drills for the team. They do offer private lessons but DD hates those. Also, DD is not outspoken, particularly to adults. She won't ask for specific help. I'm hoping this will change as she gets older. In the mean time, we help her with what we can. She actually wanted us to buy her a high bar to practice on at home. I told her even if we could afford it (which we can't!), the basement ceiling just isn't high enough. LOL She also knows that as soon as she outgrows our little "gym", that room is destined to be a home theater. :D
 
Why is she wearing palm grips? Do her hands rip a lot? Is it possible for her to train with no grips at all?
She wore no grips at all until level 5, when she started getting some rips. By then most of her team mates were wearing the palm grips. She went the longest with out wearing any grips. Looking back it would have been better for her to have just started in the narrow dowel grips back then. Hind sight is 20/20.
 
Thank you LemonLime for your encouraging words:) DD knew she would lose skills in the transiton...it's just very frustrating for her. Especially when she should be spending the summer perfecting her giants.... instead of getting used to dowel grips! I have faith in her drive & ability, and I know she'll transition well. It's just so hard to watch her struggling & being so far behind her teammates at this stage. I wish she would have made the switch before she got to this point. I wish she would have just gone into the narrow dowel grips in level 5 and skipped the palm grips altogether. So Shawn...that's our experience with grips. Look at the upper level girls at your gym...if they are wearing grips...then that is what they will recommend for your DD, (when she gets to those levels). She may not need them now(bare hands ok). But get her used to dowel grips early(even if she loses skills in the transition)....she will most likely need them in L7(for skills & saftey reasons). The switch may be difficult now....but it will be much harder(both skill wise & emotionally) later. My advice(from similar experience) to your orginal question...if the coach ordered grips for the whole team....the whole team should get used to them together. Hope this helps:)
 
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Gymjourneymom---tell your dd to hang in there. I'm sure she is feeling what my gymmie did when she went from no grips to dowel grips at the end of her L6 season. At that gym the girls all did L5 and L6 without grips and did the transition after the L6 season was over. At that point they were doing giants on the trench bar with a spot. My gymmie who was a good bar worker couldn't get the feel for the bar. Same thing as your dd---couldn't even do a kip. The excitement of getting the grips quickly disappeared and she wanted to burn them. Her problem was being able to regrasp the bar---would keep getting the dowel hung up.

I think once she stopped fighting with the grips, things started clicking again. 18 mos later, she wouldn't do bars without them and is working on front giants, bails etc. She uses a grip made by Ten-0 that is softer and has a fast break in---had them broken in 1 night. I think her coach takes the right attitude----doesn't make a big fuss when a girl comes in with new grips. Tells them to go do alot of tap swings etc. then next practice do the regular bar drills with everyone else. Sometimes the more attention you draw to something, the more it hinders the process.
 
Gymjourneymom---tell your dd to hang in there. I'm sure she is feeling what my gymmie did when she went from no grips to dowel grips at the end of her L6 season. At that gym the girls all did L5 and L6 without grips and did the transition after the L6 season was over. At that point they were doing giants on the trench bar with a spot. My gymmie who was a good bar worker couldn't get the feel for the bar. Same thing as your dd---couldn't even do a kip. The excitement of getting the grips quickly disappeared and she wanted to burn them. Her problem was being able to regrasp the bar---would keep getting the dowel hung up.

I think once she stopped fighting with the grips, things started clicking again. 18 mos later, she wouldn't do bars without them and is working on front giants, bails etc. She uses a grip made by Ten-0 that is softer and has a fast break in---had them broken in 1 night. I think her coach takes the right attitude----doesn't make a big fuss when a girl comes in with new grips. Tells them to go do alot of tap swings etc. then next practice do the regular bar drills with everyone else. Sometimes the more attention you draw to something, the more it hinders the process.
Thanks Gym Law Mom! Nice to hear of similar experinces....that have a happy ending:) Very encouraging! DD is small for a 13yo. She has Gibson "Just right" dowel grips. They are broken in & fit her well....it's just the getting used to them(part like you said) that is so frustrating for DD. I talked to the coach about it-he is being supportive of the transition period now. I don't think anyone knew she wasn't wearing dowel grips all along! This week(1st week of level 7 practice)she wore the dowels a little bit each practice to "get the feel for them"...then switched back into her palm grips, to do some of her regular stuff (so she can keep moving ahead with her team). This worked out well...she did a giant fly-away(with spotting & her palm grips) landed it on the floor.... her 1st time ever trying it:) It made her soooooooo happy. Kind of built up her confidence about not even being able to kip in the dowels right now. She is now motivated her to keep going with the transition to the dowels. EVERYONE has told her "giants will be easier with the dowel grips". Wish us luck that the transition doesn't take too long.
 
I think you've hit the proverbial nail on the head. The coaches don't do drills specific to one child. They run drills for the team. They do offer private lessons but DD hates those. Also, DD is not outspoken, particularly to adults. She won't ask for specific help. I'm hoping this will change as she gets older. In the mean time, we help her with what we can. She actually wanted us to buy her a high bar to practice on at home. I told her even if we could afford it (which we can't!), the basement ceiling just isn't high enough. LOL She also knows that as soon as she outgrows our little "gym", that room is destined to be a home theater. :D
I wish I had CB when my DD was in the lower levels! So much good advice from people who have "been ther done that". Shawn... I hear everything you are saying about your DD wanting to practice at home. She sounds very talented & driven(like someone I know, um...my own DD). What I've learned....I am NOT a gymnastics coach. But I help her how I can... by being supportive & encouraging. You're DD may not like privates...but that sounds to me like what would be best for her. One on one with the coach...she will not only progress in her individual skills BUT she'll learn to TRUST her coach.....so very important when the bigger skills come along. The coach will get to know your child better too. There is an important bond here that needs to be nurtured. She will get to a level when you won't be able to help her at home. She needs to learn to be able to ask the coach for help & trust the coach to spot her when she goes for that new "big" skill. Privates may not be what your DD likes...but my DD didn't like dowel grips & look at the problems it is causing her now. I've learned sometimes you have to say "you may not like it now...but this is what's best for you." Privates would be safer & tailored to her individual skill level. I truley believe they've be the key to my DD success:)
 
I wanted to add a clarification to my previous comment about using palm grips when kids started kips. I coached as part of a community rec program. 95% of my girls would quit before advancing past a kip so there was no need to push dowel grips. The other 5% of my kids would go on to compete for the high school team and wouldn't have anything harder than a longhang kip - flyaway in their routine. Cost was also an issue. This was a very low cost rec program - I would never have pushed a pair of dowel grips when they cost more than tuition for a ten-week session!

After thinking about this some more, I think I would skip palm grips for a USAG gymnast. The goal of USAG is to compete and move up the levels so it does make sense to start them with dowels. I *might* do palm grips if a kid just can't get the dowels for whatever reason and is ripping a lot and needs some palm protection.
 

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