Chinese GYMNASTS Lie About Their Age ...

[lil_gymnast_alanna]

The baby teeth thing isn't THAT accurate. I'm 14 and I've lost all my teeth, but one of my adult teeth came down 3 years after the baby tooth fell out.
But that's true, baby teeth don't usually come down when you're 16...unless you have delayed growth or something

 

[I-Heart-Beam]

cause i could see the secondary/adult teeth coming in. geesh. and you can biopsy the bones and come within days of a persons age, give or take. how on earth do you think the anthropologists come up with statements like "those bones are approximately 5000 years old"? you think they make that stuff up??
.

That's you're problem with the bone biopsies right there, and same with the eye thing. They can't tell exactly how old they are! These girls are not thousands of years too young, they're one or two, three at the max. If you read this link (If These Bones Could Speak: Identifying Skeletal Remains) it says within two years. That's not enough for gymnastics. Also, from that website,
"After the age of 30, Wheatley says, “you go by the signs of deterioration. You start seeing lower back problems, bones becoming less dense and more porous, increases in little arthritic projections, work-related injuries, and so on.â€￾ How many gymnasts don't have this?I'm sure you've heard the stories of gymnasts with the bones of 80 year olds.

The teeth thing I think is ridiculous, you got a 5 second glance at most at the front few teeth.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

geesh...i have a couple of advanced degrees. i'm not going to lecture on this topic. and the article you reference applies to "skeletal remains". this means that the subject is DEAD. good article though.

current tests are very accurate on LIVE HUMANS. these specific tests are performed by medical doctors. and apparently you are not aware of what the FIG does in order to ascertain ages. they don't just seek birth certificates.

and by the way, i'm well over 50 years old. i have been looking at pediatric teeth and their respective growth patterns for quite awhile. my brother is a dentist. and he too concurs that at least 2 of the gymnasts were NOT 16. he was also a gymnast and saw firsthand of what i am speaking of. our families were in bejing for the olympics.

and i don't know how young you might be, but this is certainly not the first time age eligibility has come up over the years. and if you are familar with the former gymnasts from rumania, china, bulgaria, and what was once the 'soviet union', to many to count have come forward over the years to reveal how they were not the age their federations purported them to be when they competed.

FIG has 'busted' countries for this before. and taken away individual medals and team awards before. whether you agree with the age or not, whatever FIG says that it is, they will continue to bust countries for cheating. this includes drugs and other violations of the olympic code.

 

[I-Heart-Beam]

I respect that you have a lot of background knowledge, but from the articles I googled it seems like you need a very thorough dental exam to work this out and I highly doubt you performed one on any of the Chinese girls. I saw another technique about the coating of the teeth, but you needed an x-ray to tell the difference apparently.

Secondly, I do know that the FIG don't request their gymnasts to undergo bone biopsies. They requested birth certificates and passports from the Chinese government to prove that the girls were of age.

The FIG have only suspended North Korea after Indianapolis AFAIK. Omelianchik, Filatova, Silivas, Bicherova et al have certainly not had their medals taken away from them.

Could you at least post a few sources which back up your point of view? I couldn't find any.

 

[gymgurl]

That's you're problem with the bone biopsies right there, and same with the eye thing. They can't tell exactly how old they are! These girls are not thousands of years too young, they're one or two, three at the max. If you read this link (If These Bones Could Speak: Identifying Skeletal Remains) it says within two years. That's not enough for gymnastics. Also, from that website,
"After the age of 30, Wheatley says, “you go by the signs of deterioration. You start seeing lower back problems, bones becoming less dense and more porous, increases in little arthritic projections, work-related injuries, and so on.” How many gymnasts don't have this?I'm sure you've heard the stories of gymnasts with the bones of 80 year olds.

The teeth thing I think is ridiculous, you got a 5 second glance at most at the front few teeth.

I am pulling information from other peoples posts and putting them into one post as well as some of my own thoughts

First of all we know the bone biopsy won't work so to prove it we have to rely on the next best thing.

The eye ratio is used in forensic science and as we all know that asians in general are smaller than there western counterparts the eye to face ratio is considered our only hard evidence and as it is used in forensic science in order to determine age i for one am going to believe it.

Secondly, in terms of weight Shawn Johnson is actually slightly overweight for her height due to muscle weight. where as the smallest chinese gymnast was underweight for her height. (using the weights and heights provided by gymcatgirl)

Thirdly, the fact remains that there ages have jumped around over the years and that indicates they were lying at some stage whether it be the olympics or prior to that so why shouldn't we believe it to be at the olympics which just happens to be the biggest competition for any athlete to attend.

Further more, "Dunno" the coach on this board was there and saw a tooth missing. In response to the inquiry about how do we know the gymnast in question "Dunno" said that he saw the adult tooth coming down. For one thing i had lost and grown all my adult teeth by the age of 11 or 12. Even the late losers of teeth had finished by 13 at the oldest so i am seriously confused if the girls are 16

finally, this is not the first year chinese had competed and age of the chinese gymnasts hasn't come into question before so why now, why these gymnasts. As "linsul" said if coaches who have had years of experience in international competition say something's fishy chances are it is.

I think we must remember this wasn't the only controversy during the beijing olympics, remember the girl who was supposedly singing was just lip syncing because the other girl had a better voice but wasn't pretty enough how do we know that the government didn't lie about the gymnasts ages as well. In saying this i believe that should they have been lying the gymnasts did not know just as the singing girl didn't know.

Overall i hope they didn't cheat but who knows for sure other than the chinese government. But what does this say for the rest of the world they are placing in the medals and are younger i think we need to what out for the chinese. they have talent.

Overall there is little evidence to say they didn't apart from saying that the evidence for is false. overall its over done and nothing can be done about it.

i really hope they didn't but it is all uncertain

 

[Deleted member D3987]

FIG is currently conducting an ongoing investigation. go to their site.

i'll provide some literature when i have the time to do it.

would you also find it unbelievable if you were to find out that the entire 1988 russian team to seoul chain smoked pall malls, marlboro's, and non-filtered lucky strikes?

i can't give too much away. i've been around the block a few times.

 

[I-Heart-Beam]

Overall there is little evidence to say they didn't apart from saying that the evidence for is false. overall its over done and nothing can be done about it.

i really hope they didn't but it is all uncertain

Sorry, read your post wrong.

Since this topic has been brought up again, I've been researching, and ok, google isn't the most reliable but I haven't found one test which says, yes, this proves to the day how old a gymnast is, which is really what is needed for proof that the date of births provided for the Chinese team are wrong/right.

The tooth thing, quite simply my question is how did Dunno get so close to the Chinese girls to have seen their teeth in the detail needed to check that they were adult teeth/ baby teeth.

Another point that they would be 16 is that they all seem to have hit puberty this year ie when they would be 16 going on 17, yes a bit late but normal for elite gymnasts.

The only sure thing is that the FIG aren't going to do anything (new) about it and are happy with things as they stand.

 

[I-Heart-Beam]

FIG is currently conducting an ongoing investigation. go to their site.

i'll provide some literature when i have the time to do it.

would you also find it unbelievable if you were to find out that the entire 1988 russian team to seoul chain smoked pall malls, marlboro's, and non-filtered lucky strikes?

i can't give too much away. i've been around the block a few times.

The FIG is conducting an investigation into the ages of the 2000 Chinese team.

Wouldn't put it past Bogi .

 

[gymgurl]

I know there is no flawless proof but when you put all evidence together including all my prior points it seems to me that they very well could have and you don't know how close "dunno" was to them. To me this is enough evidence to want a serious investigation. They look about as developed as my 10yo sister and lets say they are about 3yrs behind development as that seems appropriate as they cannot possibly be more than 4 so that would mean that they are roughly 13 or 14.

You cannot forget that china has done it before in the 2000 olympics and there birth dates have conveniently changed for various competitions when a certain age requirement is in place.

 

[I-Heart-Beam]

Innocent until proven guilty, no? Actually the FIG cleared them, so innocent for the time being.

It does seem suspicious, but its a bit of a dead horse now and every discussion seems to go round in circles.

 

[gymgurl]

whatever it doesn't really matter i have had my say and it doesn't effect me as i am in aus and we weren't within placement

 

[T.Gymnastics]

Maybe they cheated. Maybe they didnt. I think instead of giving them so much crap for it we should just get over ourselves and train harder for next time. I think the real reason we are so mad at them is that we are JEALOUS. but i dont know. maybe we are all wrong. and if you need something to be mad at? the chinese government. Im pretty sure the gymnasts just did as told. but of course you wont ever really know for sure.

 

[gymgurl]

agreed i think it is too old of an issue to worry about and i never thought it was the gymnasts i always thought it was the government.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Sorry, read your post wrong.

Since this topic has been brought up again, I've been researching, and ok, google isn't the most reliable but I haven't found one test which says, yes, this proves to the day how old a gymnast is, which is really what is needed for proof that the date of births provided for the Chinese team are wrong/right.

The tooth thing, quite simply my question is how did Dunno get so close to the Chinese girls to have seen their teeth in the detail needed to check that they were adult teeth/ baby teeth.

Another point that they would be 16 is that they all seem to have hit puberty this year ie when they would be 16 going on 17, yes a bit late but normal for elite gymnasts.

The only sure thing is that the FIG aren't going to do anything (new) about it and are happy with things as they stand.

the FIG is NOT done with their investigation. they recently had a hearing where the parents of an athlete were also brought for questioning.

i said i was there. i'm a coach. and that's all i can say.

and there is medical literature on the subject matter. when i have the time i will scan and post it.

and puberty has nothing at all to do with tooth maturation.

by the way...there are a couple people here that know my info is credible. they either know me or know of me. and we have to keep it at that. i hope you understand.

 

[gymgurl]

were you there to watch or coach dunno? just curious

 

[bogwoppit]

He was there as he is a very high level US coach. He, like the rest of us, chooses to be as anonymous as possible on the board so he can participate and share. Take it from me, he knows as he was there.

As for this thread, it is now locked, as it is doing my head in!