WAG Choreography

[stillhoping]

I don’t have any type of dance background, but going by some comments that I’ve heard, our team has bad choreography. I looked it up, and it does seem like bad choreography deductions can add up. What’s the maximum deduction that a judge would take for choreography? Would it be 0.2 for poor relationship + 0.3 for synchronization + 0.1 for originality + 0.1 for expression + 0.1 for movement?! That’s 0.8 — huge! We saw a drop in our DD’s floor scores after switching to this gym. What would you do if this was your gym and your team? Would you suggest they hire an outside choreographer? So far, I’ve been telling my DD that everything about her routine and her floor is fantastic, but she sees the scores. She’s so disappointed. I don’t want for her to feel like she’s bad at floor when the reality may be that she’s stuck with bad choreography and it’s beyond her control. Some parents have even discussed getting dance private lessons on the side to at least modify the routines they have and make them on beat with the music.

 

[John]

DD's gym has a ballet instructor every Wednesday for all team members no matter the level. They spend anywhere from .5 to an hour with the instructor based on the level. Watching the athletes faces and body language some seem to like the dance while others do not like it at all. To this point I am not sure it has helped. Being expressive is something each athlete needs to become comfortable with.

 

[Jard.the.gymnast]

Yes, iT is 0.8 in Total. But expression, synchroization and movements are totally in your daughters control. If she likes her routine, she is fine

 

[Deleted member 18037]

So she is an optional gymnast. What level and what level at the old gym vs now.

If she is not an optional gymnast, there is no "bad" coreography, the routine is preset.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

What would you do if this was your gym and your team? Would you suggest they hire an outside choreographer?

Are you employed by the gym? I wouldn't suggest anything to the gym. And its not "my team" I am just a parent, not on staff with the gym. If I was concerned about my daughter I would get her help outside gym as in extra dance lessons.

 

[Flyaway]

I would always assume that my dd's lower floor scores are attributed to poor quality tumbling/leaps rather than choreo. What sort of comments have you heard that makes you think the choreo is bad?

 

[NutterButter]

I also tend to think that her lower scores may be an indication of lower quality tumbling/leaps. If this year is a new level for you DD, then it's hard to compare her scores to scores for previous levels even if it may seem to you that nothing has changed from the prior year.

 

[stillhoping]

What sort of comments have you heard that makes you think the choreo is bad?

The coach has said that judges don’t like the choreography. One of the gymnast’s routines was publicly posted on social media and there were several comments made about the choreography. And, some parents with dance backgrounds made comments. Those things are what made me look it up. I would have thought something closer to 0.1, if anything, and not anywhere near 0.8. That just seems huge.

 

[CLgym]

I have also heard that choreography rarely impacts floor scores significantly -- although I'd be interested to hear if the judges on here agree -- and that tumbling/jumps/leaps compose the biggest deductions by far. That being said, my DD does do ballet training at her gym (one hour per week), and an additional hour of ballet privately (semi-private lesson at a local ballet studio with a couple of her teammates). I also paid for her to have a quick choreography clean up session this year (she is using the same routine as last year, just upgraded for new level), and the choreographer did work with her on expression, changing focus, etc.

 

[stillhoping]

What level and what level at the old gym vs now.

Old gym: level 9
New gym: level 9

 

[stillhoping]

I also paid for her to have a quick choreography clean up session this year (she is using the same routine as last year, just upgraded for new level), and the choreographer did work with her on expression, changing focus, etc.

I think this is a great idea. I’m thinking it’s too late for this season. She’s already started competing. But, before next season, I may let her try this.

 

[MILgymFAM]

There is a service where you can pay ($45 I think) to have a routine evaluated by the judge and you get line by line written comments. Maybe you could get absolute answers that way?

 

[stillhoping]

There is a service where you can pay ($45 I think) to have a routine evaluated by the judge and you get line by line written comments. Maybe you could get absolute answers that way?

Interesting! That’s a good idea - and cheaper than dance private lessons that may not help.

 

[NutterButter]

Old gym: level 9
New gym: level 9

Do they spend the same amount of time on floor at your new gym? Weak choreography is a frequent complaint among parents at our gym. It is also true that girls at DD's gym don't place on floor as frequently as they do on other events. This makes some grumpy parents think that the problem is the choreography. I don't see it like this though. DDs gym trains the bare minimum of hours at each level in order to keep the kids safe and progressing. When I see threads here about training hours, my take away is that DD's gym is 2-4 hours less than many, if not most others. Our girls do very well on bars and vault. I don't think floor is de-emphasized. Just that there are only a certain number of hours they train. I'd rather see the energy spent on bars/vault than gaining a few extra tenths on floor but that is just my opinion. There are several gyms in my area that always have beautiful floor routines but cringe-worthy bars and vault. I don't believe we have 'bad choreography' but our girls will frequently place in the top 3 on vault and bars and they never place that high on floor.

 

[wandrewsjr]

Are her acro and dance elements all exactly the same?

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Old gym: level 9
New gym: level 9

As the others have said. It’s usually the tumbling and leaps that have the impact.

And I can speak to it firsthand with my daughter. She had a growth spurt and a tumble that spooked her and her first year with new music. I swore it was the coreography. Coach said it was fine. I was beyond skeptical. She got her tumbling and amplitude back her scores shot up. From near last to podium.

Is she doing new skills not comfortable with. Or even old skills “redone” at new gym, that she hadn’t settled into? Growth spurt?

 

[stillhoping]

Do they spend the same amount of time on floor at your new gym?

I don’t know? I do know that she scores about the same in all events. You may be right, that relatively less emphasis is placed on floor.

 

[stillhoping]

Are her acro and dance elements all exactly the same?

As the others have said. It’s usually the tumbling and leaps that have the impact.

Yes, I think her routine is more difficult now; and yes I do think she’s grown.

It seems like the consensus is that judges aren’t taking deductions for choreography. That’s very reassuring. At our old gym, some parents requested an outside choreographer, so then all of the optionals were required to use her. It was expensive, but the routines looked really nice. It’s good know that it really doesn’t matter what the choreography is.

 

[doublestrike]

Good choreography can get you through periods of minor injuries when some tumbling needs to be taken out, and if everything else is even, the better choreo will win. There is something about it when everybody turns to watch a strong floor routine whether it's the dance and choreo. We've always paid for top choreography--well worth it. Lots of floor titles, and builds performance confidence.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Lots of floor titles, and builds performance confidence.

Lots of floor titles don’t come from the coreography, it comes from the tumbling and other skills.

You can have the most expensive and stunning coreography on the planet. And if your tumbling and leaps are not good, there might be clapping but there will be no titles.

Many a parent has sat stunned at their kids scores who had great coreography wondering why the kid with the more simply coreographed routine outscored them by a lot.