WAG Coach/judge question - beam series/flight

[Ali'sMom]

Can someone who "knows", tell me if they believe that the dive cartwheel / round off done in this video (not mine, but public on youtube) would get credit as a connection? And would that also count as flight for L7?
Thank you!

 

[profmom]

RO is a flight. From what I've seen around here, some judges would give the connection and some wouldn't. L9, right? If so, probably less likely to get connection credit.

 

[Ali'sMom]

I don't know what level the video is of, but I'm looking for L7 connection.
I was wondering if that was intended to be her "series", and then also if it was "connected enough". And then also, if the round off would do double duty - counts as the series, then also the flight, so that both requirements are met with just those two elements.

 

[chalkbowl]

I don't know what level the video is of, but I'm looking for L7 connection.
I was wondering if that was intended to be her "series", and then also if it was "connected enough". And then also, if the round off would do double duty - counts as the series, then also the flight, so that both requirements are met with just those two elements.

Yes, dive cartwheel + round-off was her intended series. The connection would be very iffy, to me she shows a stop after the dive cartwheel before continuing on to the RO and I would not have given credit for an acro series.

That specific series would fulfill both a series requirement (assuming it was connected...) and the flight element requirement for the level 7.

 

[profmom]

CW-RO is a tough connection to make. Is there a backwards problem to work around?

 

[Ali'sMom]

thank you. I did think there was a stop that would cause this to not get credit.

CW-RO is a tough connection to make. Is there a backwards problem to work around?

Yup... Had a BWO for a year and a half (while in L4, through scoring out of L5, and then fell, then got pushed too hard, right into panic mode.
She's a L6 right now. Happily doing a cartwheel, and scoring well, and actually feeling confident for the first year ever. I'm hoping she can keep some of the confidence.
The idea of moving up to 7 if she she has to do the BWO (and worse, BHS), gives her angst, and talks about quitting.

I totally know it's up to the coaches, and there isn't a whole lot that I can do about it, I'm just really researching for my own knowledge.
I've heard about even a CW/CW series, but like the video above, I have a feeling that it would be too hard to be considered "connected". So since I saw this one, and could show what I'm thinking would be my own daughter's "pause", I wondered if it was enough.

Thank you all

 

[chalkbowl]

One other thing to keep in mind with a cartwheel + cartwheel or cartwheel + RO connection is the connecting leg may NOT swing above 45 degrees going in to the 2nd element or the connection is considered broken!

 

[raenndrops]

thank you. I did think there was a stop that would cause this to not get credit.



Yup... Had a BWO for a year and a half (while in L4, through scoring out of L5, and then fell, then got pushed too hard, right into panic mode.
She's a L6 right now. Happily doing a cartwheel, and scoring well, and actually feeling confident for the first year ever. I'm hoping she can keep some of the confidence.
The idea of moving up to 7 if she she has to do the BWO (and worse, BHS), gives her angst, and talks about quitting.

I totally know it's up to the coaches, and there isn't a whole lot that I can do about it, I'm just really researching for my own knowledge.
I've heard about even a CW/CW series, but like the video above, I have a feeling that it would be too hard to be considered "connected". So since I saw this one, and could show what I'm thinking would be my own daughter's "pause", I wondered if it was enough.

Thank you all

The dive cartwheel AND the RO both had flight in that video. If she could do THAT dive cartwheel as the 2nd cartwheel of a CW-CW series with a good "swing-thru" on the first Regular cartwheel, she should be good. We have a L7 with CW-Dive CW series and she got credit for the series at all of our meets this year.

 

[Ali'sMom]

One other thing to keep in mind with a cartwheel + cartwheel or cartwheel + RO connection is the connecting leg may NOT swing above 45 degrees going in to the 2nd element or the connection is considered broken!

I see - she didn't actually land on that foot, she swung it forward to start the roundoff. Is that the leg you mean can't go above 45 degrees?

 

[Ali'sMom]

The dive cartwheel AND the RO both had flight in that video. If she could do THAT dive cartwheel as the 2nd cartwheel of a CW-CW series with a good "swing-thru" on the first Regular cartwheel, she should be good. We have a L7 with CW-Dive CW series and she got credit for the series at all of our meets this year.

Thank you for that. The swing thru - do you mean the leg that I just mentioned above? The one that she doesn't land on, but swings through to start the second element?
I actually hadn't even noticed that she didn't land on that foot.

 

[LizzieLac]

My DD does a CW-CW series for Platinum and has had no problem getting the connection credit. She does a separate BW for another "A" skill. She had her BHS when she broke her leg last year as a level 7 and it is now the most inconsistent thing going. So, the best thing for her is to train the BHS but we are not worrying about competing it any time soon.

We'll just have to see where she is next competition season. She too, may be doing RO or dive CW for her flight skill.

 

[gymdog]

It shouldn't because her body stopped moving but since she didn't wobble maybe there's a small chance some judges would give it. This is very iffy. It's very difficult to connect these kinds of series consistently and keep moving without balance errors.

 

[l.c.o]

The cw-cw can be tough, I've noticed that a lot of the L4 boys struggle connecting it even on the floor. That said, they're mostly newbies in their first season, so not nearly as experienced, and I'm sure your DD would have plenty of time to master the connection.

And I have to say that there are usually a few boys that usually connect it very well, without any question. My DS competes none of his floor bonuses (they're too inconsistent), and he manages to score 9.5-9.7 range on FX. I'm reasonably sure his deductions aren't for his cw-cw connection (other obvious deductions, like a few arches and flexed feet).

Good luck to your DD - I know she's been needing a confidence boost for awhile. Hopefully easing the pressure off her beam requirements will help her long-term progress. Backing off has helped my DD a ton, and I hope the same will be true for your DD!

(Also, reassuring my DD that she could conceivably compete JO forever regardless of level (even if L4 always), seemed to calm her down. There's been zero pressure for her to "make" level 7. As soon as the pressure eased, her beam started coming back.)

 

[Ali'sMom]

Good luck to your DD - I know she's been needing a confidence boost for awhile. Hopefully easing the pressure off her beam requirements will help her long-term progress. Backing off has helped my DD a ton, and I hope the same will be true for your DD!

(Also, reassuring my DD that she could conceivably compete JO forever regardless of level (even if L4 always), seemed to calm her down. There's been zero pressure for her to "make" level 7. As soon as the pressure eased, her beam started coming back.)

Thank you! She's good this season, but the idea of "what comes next" gets her quite worked up. I have told her that there is no shame in repeating level 6, and really kicking some butt (yet, she's still afraid that if she repeats, that the coaches will push for the BWO, especially if she's repeating, since all of the other L6 girls do it)
Only time will tell!!

 

[cadybearsmommy]

It looks very very similar to what our L7 girls do for an acro connection on beam this year (same issue, had the BHS, but mental blocks moved in, it must be very common). And from what I've heard they have got credit for the series most of the time this season.

 

[Pineapple_Lump]

What is her flexibility like? Is a forward walkover, round-off an option? would be a little more progressive, while still working around backward issues. A coach and gymnast can spend a long time working and fiddling trying to find alternate skills for gymnasts, but often it is just better to persevere with problem skills as every new level means more fluffing around trying to find something that ticks all the boxes.

 

[raenndrops]

="Ali'sMom, post: 448829, member: 16490"]Thank you for that. The swing thru - do you mean the leg that I just mentioned above? The one that she doesn't land on, but swings through to start the second element?
I actually hadn't even noticed that she didn't land on that foot.

Yes, i meant the non-landing leg. It needs to be a continuous motion... swing thru directly to plant it for the dive cartwheel.

 

[gymdog]

The cw-cw can be tough, I've noticed that a lot of the L4 boys struggle connecting it even on the floor. That said, they're mostly newbies in their first season, so not nearly as experienced, and I'm sure your DD would have plenty of time to master the connection.

And I have to say that there are usually a few boys that usually connect it very well, without any question. My DS competes none of his floor bonuses (they're too inconsistent), and he manages to score 9.5-9.7 range on FX. I'm reasonably sure his deductions aren't for his cw-cw connection (other obvious deductions, like a few arches and flexed feet).

Good luck to your DD - I know she's been needing a confidence boost for awhile. Hopefully easing the pressure off her beam requirements will help her long-term progress. Backing off has helped my DD a ton, and I hope the same will be true for your DD!

(Also, reassuring my DD that she could conceivably compete JO forever regardless of level (even if L4 always), seemed to calm her down. There's been zero pressure for her to "make" level 7. As soon as the pressure eased, her beam started coming back.)

Boys do a side cartwheel ending into another cartwheel moving the same direction. It's a different connection you could do that on beam but it would probably take some training because most girls have never learned a side cartwheel landing on beam. Still, if I had to teach a cartwheel connection, I'd try it. I think it is more connectable than a switch direction cartwheel connection (shown in the above video).

 

[CoachMeg]

Backward tumbling fears issues are hard to over-come. They really just take a lot of time/patience. We had a really talented kid quit over a bhs fear last year. She had just finished L7, and competed bwo-bhs. One day at practice, wouldn't go for the bhs. No reason whatsoever, never fell or anything. Really strange. Then the fear progressed to just a general backward beam tumbling fear, and she wouldn't even do a bwo. We tried working around the fear and gave her some other ideas but the beam fear progressed into a backward floor tumbling fear and then it just spiraled into total fear of gymnastics. Really sad. I hope your DD can overcome it and I hope her coaches are willing to help her work through it. Anyway....

Some L7 ideas for your DD:
- Cartwheel, cartwheel (acro series) (swinging leg out of first cartwheel cannot raise above 45 degrees into second cartwheel) + Round-off (flight)
- Cartwheel, Round-off (flight series) - can also compete this in level 8 & again, leg cannot swing above 45 degrees
- Front-walkover, Round-Off (flight series) - much easier to connect, but requires good shoulder flexibility and ability to get over the fear of a blind landing
- Dive-cartwheel, Dive-cartwheel (flight series) (hard skill to do really well & also cannot let leg swing about 45 degrees)

All in all, it will be difficult to eliminate any limbering skills (backwards or forwards) in optionals, but not impossible. Just be thankful she made it to optionals before the fears started as compulsories are not as forgiving when it comes to fears. Hope your DD sticks with it, though! Hopefully her coaches will be understanding and willing to work with her through the fears. Otherwise, she sounds like the perfect candidate for Excel! (Still loves gymnastics and wants to compete, but wants to do skills at her own pace/ability)

 

[Ali'sMom]

Thank you all!
She has some truly understanding coaches. They "get" what this fear does to her. When the rest of her L6 team initially had BWO-BWO and BHS in their beam routine, they were okay taking out her one BWO. After falling on her chest doing a full turn, she couldn't do a handstand the week before our practice meet. They took it out. Smiled at her and said "Don't worry about it". Of course, they'd like to get a BWO back. Half for her own confidence, half for the routine itself. Only one coach out of 5 don't handle it well, and I think we've managed to keep her at bay.

I'm not really worried about future skills, as I believe next season will be her last, regardless of repeating L6 or moving to L7. She feels the same way. She already stresses (in 7th grade) about how much time gym will take away from study time in high school.
So truly, if they can work out a beam routine that doesn't cause her severe angst, and let her get through Level 7 and done, she would be very happy

I'm very glad to know that there are options out there that seem more common than I'd ever thought!