WAG Conditioning as Punishment: Yes or No?

[CoachMeg]

A few of our coaches are in disagreement on this subject. One coach feels he doesn't want to use conditioning as a punishment tool because he wants the gymnasts to learn to like conditioning and not associate it with something bad. The other coach disagrees and uses it when kids are not paying attention/goofing around or they keep making the same mistake over and over without applying any correction. Some other times too, but those are the main reasons. The conditioning varies from 10-25 pushups (depending on level), running laps, or climbing rope. Push-ups is used most often.

I can see both sides, but I definitely have used my fair share of conditioning to get kids to start focusing or making corrections.

Coaches: Do you use conditioning only for strength reasons or also for punishment reasons?

Parents: Do you agree or disagree if a coach made your child do conditioning because they either weren't paying attention or weren't making a correction?

 

[Texasmomof3]

My dd's gym does an hour of hard core conditioning every day at the beginning of practice. She doesn't love it, but knows how important it is for doing those higher level skills, especially, so she "likes" it in that sense.

I have no issue with coaches sending girls to condition if they aren't paying attention. I also have no problem with coaches sending them home if they aren't focused.

Her gym is pretty no nonsense when it comes to focus. They don't tolerate wasted time and goofing off during practice. (The girls have plenty of fun before and after, don't get me wrong.) So, I can't imagine them having to use the conditioning threat often. But if my daughter isn't paying attention to her coach or is goofing off and not trying, I have no problem with sending her to do chin ups, rope climbs, ski jumps or lunges around the gym for a bit.

My ds' gym doesn't condition much, at all. I *wish* the coaches would make them do it when they aren't focused, but his coaches are pretty lazy, honestly, and that would require effort from them.

Edited to add -- if my child is trying to apply the correction and it just isn't clicking, I would hope the coach doesn't punish that. If my child just isn't trying/paying attention/focused, punish away.

 

[skschlag]

If gymnasts are not paying attention, then conditioning isn't punishment. It is an alternative activity to keep them busy that will benefit them. If they are not making a correction, and the conditioning is to help them make it better, again, not punishment.

I personally, allow the coach to make the call on waht needs to happen. My ds and 2 other boys got booted last night with 15 minutes to go in practice because they were talking and not working. (Now, I am not happy about this as they had been told to work pommel horse but had no coaching for an hour + while 1 coach did vaults and the other coach coached vaults. ANd I mean....he vaulted). But he has to learn to listen and work at practice.

If it is pervasive and daily, then there is a bigger problem, but occassionally having extra conditioning due to an issue isn't a bad thing. Man, when I was in high school basketball, we had to run suicides for missing free throws....

 

[mom2newgymnast]

My dd's gym does an hour of hard core conditioning every day at the beginning of practice. She doesn't love it, but knows how important it is for doing those higher level skills, especially, so she "likes" it in that sense.

I have no issue with coaches sending girls to condition if they aren't paying attention. I also have no problem with coaches sending them home if they aren't focused.

Her gym is pretty no nonsense when it comes to focus. They don't tolerate wasted time and goofing off during practice. (The girls have plenty of fun before and after, don't get me wrong.) So, I can't imagine them having to use the conditioning threat often. But if my daughter isn't paying attention to her coach or is goofing off and not trying, I have no problem with sending her to do chin ups, rope climbs, ski jumps or lunges around the gym for a bit.

My dd's gym is similar. They do a lot of conditioning already. At least 30-45 minutes in the beginning of a 4 hour practice. Mixed in throughout the events. And usually 15-20 at the end. And that's just a normal day. Some days they really focus on it and it's more like 1 to 1 1/2 hours at the beginning. The girls don't love it, but they also know it's important and they don't complain.

But the coaches definitely do use conditioning during practice as "punishment" for not listening, for goofing off too much and sometimes for not taking corrections repeatedly. Rope climbs and push ups are popular. They also do leg lifts on the stall bars, v-ups on the floor and some other things I can't think of. It's not all the time or even all that often (from what I can tell), but it has definitely been known to happen. I think it seems effective for her group. For the most part, they don't want to do the punishment and it usually puts and end to that behavior. As for not making a correction, I guess it depends. If they really are trying, than it might make me a little mad. But I think they need to learn to tell the coach if they are trying and just don't get it or else they might think they are doing it on purpose (which I do think sometimes happens on my dd's team with one or two of the girls).

 

[Deleted member 18037]

Parent here. Our gym does a lot of conditioning. And they pretty much ask the kids do it if away from practice (like on vacation) for L4 and up.

Although I have been off program for a bit the grow ups here like it to.

Now as punishment I guess I am in the middle.

I don't like when the whole group gets "punished" because one or a couple are having issues.

I am Ok otherwise as long as other things have been tried. Not a fan of those quick to jump to punish. So when you say someone is not making corrections my first thought is Why?.... Perhaps they are just not understanding what the coach is saying. So perhaps they need it explained differently or need to work with some else on the skill. Perhaps they just need to step back for the moment.

Most of the kids on our team are hard workers, so if they are not making corrections, it's usually not because they are goofing off and need punishment.

But then this is how I parent. If my kid is not focused on homework, I don't rush to punish. There is usually a reason, tired, hungry, thirsty, saturated. Punishment usually backfires.

 

[gymmomtotwo]

I don't have any problem with the coaches using conditioning the way you describe. I do think younger kids need a warning first. One thing I do hate is group punishments. Don't see the point, it is devisive, unfair and has no place in a gymnastics practice. Punish the guilty not the group.
I see girls self punishing themselves on beam in practice when they fall on a skill (10 pushups). I abhor this practice. The girls all seem to take it matter of factly, but it really bothers me. It is not always part of practice, but I hate seeing it when it is.

 

[Aussie_coach]

No, I do not give conditioning as a punishment. If a skill is not working then we might do a conditioning exersice in order to improve the skill but it is not a punishment. It's more like "Okay guys, let's to this drill to help us with this skill" followed by an explanation as to why that drill will help the skill so the kids can see the connection and work on taking the body shaping into the skill.

It would be extremely rare that a team kid in our gym would need a "punishment". Sure the little ones need them on occasion for pushing or something and then they would sit out.

On a very, very rare occasion a team kid might be getting too excited and silly with friends and I might sit them out for a period. It doesn't take long and they settle down and want to get back to practice.

If kids are not paying attention or goofing off it usually has another meaning at this level. Sometimes it is because the kid doesn't think they can do something or might be scared so they are avoiding it. This should be dealt with not with punishment but by breaking it down in a different way to build the gymnasts confidence.

If they aren't applying a correction we break the skill down further so it is easier for them to apply it.

 

[Musicmama]

I'm not a fan of punishments in general - I'm more of a natural/logical consequences kind of gal - but I'm fine with conditioning being used to help bring a child back into focus or to stop them from goofing off if it's getting disruptive. I don't really see those as being punishments.

I'd rather my child not be given conditioning in a negative way because I want her to not associate conditioning as being a negative thing. However, that difference can be subtle, and I trust that her coaches also want her not to hate conditioning exercises and will try to be positive about it whenever possible.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

What Aussiecoach said and musicmama too.

In fact I would like to like Aussiecoach about 100 times

 

[Splash123]

My coaches have always used conditioning as a motivation to not fall on beam in training. So for example, if you were doing BWO on beam and fell without fighting to stay on you would get 25 hollow rocks or 25 press ups or something. Normally with beam it was core conditioning to strengthen our cores to help with beam in general. Same went for sitting down dismounts, and because that is the way I was always coached I do the same with my group but because they are slightly younger I just give them 10-15 hollow rocks or 10-30 sec lever hold depending upon their level etc. Hope that helps

 

[coachmolly]

Nope. I don't want them to associate conditioning with punishment. And really, how much is extra conditioning going to fix? If it's a punishment for not trying, what makes me think they will try on their punishment conditioning? If they are being silly and goofing off, they probably aren't going to devote that much energy to conditioning- so what's the point? And really, my team kids require punishment very infrequently. Typically it's more a matter of getting them to refocus and pay attention to what they're doing.
If a kid is struggling with focus or goofing off (more than is to be expected from 2nd-4th graders), I typically send them off to get a drink, catch their breath and come back when they are ready to try again. If it's a skill they are struggling with or overall tightness or attention to detail, than I will give them some kind of supplemental drill to help them refocus and figure out the problem area. Sometimes this might seem like punishment or be some kind of conditioning, but I try to remind them periodically that having to take a step back is not a bad thing, just helping them to learn the skill the right way.

 

[Sasha]

My experience....

My son, since he started as an almost-6 year old, had never ONCE asked to miss gym class, or made any mention ever of feeling upset or unmotivated. While I listened to other parents lament dragging their kid away from video games, friends, and moodiness to come to class, my guy couldn't wait for gym every day without fail. He made a stretching chart. He set goals. He was proud and respectful. I've never seen such a dedicated, passionate little tyke. Works hard at everything, conditioning included.

Then one day, age 7, he comes out of class and tells me he doesn't want to do gym anymore. I can see he is holding back tears. I listen.

The coach had sent him to climb the rope because he didn't successfully apply a correction.

With tears in his eyes, and a breaking little heart, he internalized that event to mean that he was a terrible gymnast, that the coach didn't like him or have faith in him, and that he must be stupid for not understanding what coach was saying to him. He broke down sobbing in my arms.

 

[Deleted member 18037]

^^^^and there you have it.

PS can't like it, it breaks my heart

 

[bookworm]

Conditioning as punishment? ....welcome to the sordid world of college gymnastics where "conditioning" is used as punishment, especially for the entire team, from the get go until they graduate...please don't do this to the kids in JO, there has to be a better way....

 

[CCGymbug]

I am going to give a different take on this. Both of my kids have ADHD and SPD. I will not debate it, I live it. We have been going to OT for 2 years. 1 recommendation that we were given by OT was to do big muscle exercise. So we incorporate conditioning when the kids are getting out of control. They understand it is to help them focus and calm down. And it works! So I don't think it is a bad thing. It might really help to reset brain so they are ready to refocus.
As a general rule my son is very sensitive and would most likely want to quit if he felt he was punished beecause he couldn't do something. So coaches, my suggestion would be to phrase it in a way that it suggests that the conditioning will help the focus so he or she can better learn.
As a parent spending alot of money on gymnastics, I don't want time and energy to be focused on 1 or 2 kids misbehaving. So if conditioning doesn't work, I would send them out. As a parent that makes a clear statement.

 

[beachgirl]

I think conditioning should be used as a tool, not a punishment for gymnasts that aren't paying attention or goofing around because they could get hurt if they aren't focused or paying attention and it takes away from the rest of the gymnasts. This is the first step that should be used before a gymnast is asked to sit out or go home. I don't think it's fair when a whole group has to do extra conditioning because of the behavior of a few. When a gymnast ignores the correction and makes no attempt to change what they are doing conditioning may be acceptable. If a gymnast is truly trying to make a correction and is not capable of it, they should not be punished with extra conditioning. Also, I don't see how extra conditioning is going to help a gymnast that has developed a fear and is incapable of doing a skill because they are too afraid.

 

[MILgymFAM]

I vote no on conditioning as punishment. These kids condition plenty already and why should they associate something that is a huge part of their time spent in gym with punishment. DDs entire L6/7 group was recently assigned 400 push ups (she got through about 90% before they ran out of time on that rotation) as a punishment for disrespecting the HC. What did they do to deserve that? They didn't try hard enough. Pretty subjective and hurtful, in my opinion. That on top of regular conditioning and the rest of a regular four hour practice and my DD could barely use her arms the next day. She still thought the coach was wrong (and told him so), so I don't think whatever his message was sank in.

 

[gymdog]

Do not use conditioning as punishment. Nowadays the safest and best practice if you feel a child is not behaving in a safe and productive manner is to notify the parents and dismiss them for the night, or to restructure their assignments so it can be done safely. Never assume a child is doing or not doing something "on purpose"...it will be much less frustrating for you to simply make the default assumption that they aren't ready for that skill and give them an easier assignment. Since the kids are motivated to move up, this will cover both instances where the child actually needs remedial attention and where the child simply isn't trying, with less frustration on the part of everyone.

Having a child do conditioning is physical punishment. It is best for the gym to have a blanket policy for this so it doesn't get out of hand with someone. I'm not saying it would be a problem for anyone you currently work with, and 10-15 push ups isn't going to do it, but I've heard of instances where a child was made to climb rope for an hour and had welts (this is a real example I've heard but you can see countless other scenarios where one person's unthinking overreaction could cause a physical wound or cause fatigue leading to an injury). Then what happens when they go home to the parent and say they were punished and that is the result? The coach could be legally and criminally liable. So as an owner or program director there needs to be a policy in place.

Now I'm not talking about when you have the practice structured so that they do the handstand on beam and if they don't hold it you have them go to the wall and hold it ten seconds each time and try again. My only caveat for that is to make it actually directly related to the assignment or you are wasting your time and could be doing a circuit to more effectively increase their skills. So, having them do push-ups because they fell on a beam skill is probably not a wise use of time. I do not use that practice because it would waste my valuable beam rotation time and simply would make no difference in the quality of our routines and movement even if it maybe prevented a fall or two in practice. Not really my goal. If they fall a lot, they don't move on. They want to move on so they don't just fall gratuitously. Therefore, when they do fall, I assume it's due to technical errors or alignment faults that can be solved by drills, range of motion, or strength and I apply those specifics as necessary.

Also, youth gymnastics is supposed to be fun. The kids want to learn gymnastics. Of course, the coach does need to provide structure and technical direction for this to occur. But I think it's important not to lose sight of the "point" of youth gymnastics.

 

[Faolmor]

I vote no on conditioning as punishment. These kids condition plenty already and why should they associate something that is a huge part of their time spent in gym with punishment. DDs entire L6/7 group was recently assigned 400 push ups (she got through about 90% before they ran out of time on that rotation) as a punishment for disrespecting the HC. What did they do to deserve that? They didn't try hard enough. Pretty subjective and hurtful, in my opinion. That on top of regular conditioning and the rest of a regular four hour practice and my DD could barely use her arms the next day. She still thought the coach was wrong (and told him so), so I don't think whatever his message was sank in.

400 push-ups is just plain stupid. Kids work hard for coaches they trust and want to please, and because they enjoy their sport - they might go through the motions for a coaches who is unreasonable and whom they fear, but what do they really get out of it? And what does the coach get out of it that a) makes them a better coach, and b) a better human being? Not a lot. Unless their goal is just to inflict punishment...which makes the whole thing an excuse to just plain be mean.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

It's an open ended question, it's all about the delivery and not crushing them with conditioning (example 400 pushups). But yes, if I ask you to point your toes 20 times and you won't do it then go climb the rope. Problem solved (every time).... If you are not catching your release then.... we need to do more releases or do drills. (no conditioning, problem solved) .... So again, an open ended question and impossible to flat out object to anyone here because we don't know who or how it's being delivered. However; many things in life are based on team effort and the consequences that occur. Grades in college/school are sometimes contingent on a group project (that means if someone in the group sucks,,, you get a lower grade, fair???? yes) ... Or your job/bonus may hinge in the entire sales team effort at work,, Fair,,,, Yes...... And finally, if a few kids on the team don't work hard and cause the team to lose at a meet,,,,, everyone on team suffers the consequences...... Just watch the playoffs on TV, it only takes one bad play or penalty to cost an entire team franchise a stunning loss, (sorry but those two Bengal players need to climb ROPE). So a blanket statement of, "group punishment should never happen" is not realistic of daily life because it's going to happen anyways... Not to mention lack of accountability is a real problem in society.... Thats my 2 cents.