Parents Confused about dance ... some of this is due to gymnastics ...

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emorymom

Proud Parent
DD's age 6's first love is gymnastics. She works out with her level 2 team T Th, 6 hours total. They also get pulled in some Saturdays.

She also loves dance.

She is precocious at neither, but puts in the man hours, KWIM?

This year she asked to dance at a studio instead of a rec center. So in August she started at a private studio. It was a 90 minute block for her age level, and due to location, DS and I pretty much were hanging around the strip mall. Parents can't watch except watch days.

After being on the fall sched for a month (home schooled) she also asked to do 1 hour of dance at the rec center and Saturday mornings in a church ballet program. As this was very cheap I allowed her to add.

Watch day came at the studio. Boy DD was having fun but she was not applying herself. I explained that DS and I did not want to hang out at the strip mall at the end of the day for her to have a princess party esp. since she was applying herself at the other two programs just fine (I can watch those as I want to ... which wasn't too often but enough for me to know she was applying herself.)

Talked to the studio about maybe having higher expectations for her. She said it would be best to just bump her up 1 level -- but that conflicts with gym team. So she tried bumping her up 2 levels -- convenient time for me, longer block so we could go home, and DD did like things well after the move. Studio owner thought that was mostly working out but then decided this month that it was too far over DD's head. So wanted to move her to a day that won't work for the family. So ... we're out of that studio for now.

DD still has 1 hour at the rec center (barely instructive, but cheap and fun) and the church dance program (very instructive) so I don't have to find her something else.

What is nagging at me is the approach the studio took with the girls. I don't want to make the same mistake next year.

One of my problems with the first class DD was in was that they were saying "good job" to basically anything the kids did. I would see DD doing half a normal stretch and everything was good job. I think they were really only modeling dancing and not correcting. DD, being in gym, is used to being corrected if they want more for her. It's not that she doesn't want to do well, but while she at age 6 has the discipline to show up, she's not going to constantly be monitoring herself particularly if the teachers say that everything she does is hunky-dory. She will live up to expectations as she understands them ... and it's best that they are explicit.

Well in the final conference last night at the studio I said something to the owner like "Well in the Saturday class are they going to be doing more direct instruction?" and she said of course, but what we see on watch day is not going to be what goes on in a typical class. So I said "So you are going to be correcting body positions and so forth" and she said "You will never see that on watch day. We do not correct kids in front of parents. We would never embarrass them like that." To be honest I don't think they are correcting them very much when the parents aren't looking either ...

This is the point at which I get lost with some instructors and end up looking for a better teacher for my child. I don't understand what is embarrassing about being corrected neutrally -- in the church dance program, for example, the teacher is constantly walking around giving verbal or manual corrections to body positions. I saw none of that on Watch Day at the studio. None. So ... what am I missing? I don't really want to pay for my child to not be instructed ... and for me instruction means corrections. Emotion neutral, diplomatic corrections. What is embarrassing about that?

I think it's hard for me to find good quality dance programs for my 6 year old. I guess. I'm lucky to have the church dance program. But I know DD would like to be in a studio again. There was a studio we loved, but it closed.

Um ... so can someone comment on their experiences maybe in dance studios and how the instruction differs from gymnastics training?
 
Sorry I'm no hope because I totally agree with everything you just said. My 5 yo DD is starting dancing next week and I'll be trying to snoop this out (they similarly only allow parents to watch every month or two).
 
I feel your pain! My 4 year old dd danced last year at a studio 2 minutes from our house. It is primarily a ballet school, non competitive. You could only watch 1 day per quarter so once every 3 months. She complained nonstop toward the middle of the year and didn't want to go. We finished out the year but I decided that I wasn't going to take her back.
We tried a different dance studio 20 minutes from our house. The owner's dd is in my dd's gymnastics classes but is older. She tried to move my dd up a level but my dd didn't like the studio at all and cried. You could see everything through a glass window and the studio was extremely busy and loud. (It is a competition studio and does well.)So, again I had to find a different arrangement that fit my dd. One of the mother's of one of the elite gymnasts at our gym owns one of the best studios in our state (#2)and someone suggested I try it. The downside is that it is a 40 minute drive from my house. I thought I would give it a try and I was pretty sure that my dd just wasn't going to like dance anywhere. Suprise! She loves this studio and it is affordable. You watch for 2 weeks out of the month and the blinds are closed the other 2 weeks. My daughter is constantly being corrected but is very happy and would like to go more than one day a week. And yes, THEY ARE CORRECTED WHEN PARENTS ARE VIEWING! She is with kids her age. They asked about moving her up when we first started but I said that I would like her to be with kids her age and it is challenging. She is happy and I am happy. So my advice would be to ask around and try a few places. My dd takes tap, acro and ballet. Next year I may just do tap and ballet because she is way ahead in acro because of gym. Who knew that a change would make so much difference. She used to not want to go and now she looks forward to it. I hope this helps. I will probably try a studio closer to home when she is older and more mature. But this is what is working for now.
 
I'm the assistant for a dance company. My oldest dd also takes dance classes from the studio there. If I didn't correct the company members and the instructors did not correct the students, what would be the point? You were correct in saying that the corrections are neutral and non-emotive, so I don't get the embarrassment part at all. I'd think that the students would be used to the corrections and able to handle them. In fact, they should understand that instructors are giving the corrections because they care to improve them. To me, not correcting equals not caring.

We did have one dance instructor who was a leader for the dance company that we had to let go because she would often literally sit down against the wall and offer little correction. I would be the one correcting the company members. At first, I just thought that this was her style, and I wasn't eager to interfere or criticize too much. However, when I compared it to gymnastics, I realized that I would never stand for my other dd's gym coach sitting back and offering little correction. Why should dance be different? You were right to be concerned, IMO.
 
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Thanks. I don't understand the problem with corrections either but I have met a lot of female instructors who buy into the never proven Self Esteem Movement and are very concerned about corrections.
 
Wow--I could have written that entire thing. My daughter is in both gym and dance, and she's a total flake at her dance studio. Well, she is in gymnastics, too, but they definitely fix mistakes in gym.
I've actually been thinking of taking her out of dance because it just seems so pointless. She hasn't learned a thing in two years that she couldn't learn in one day of direct instruction and correction.
Sorry, no advice, just lending my support. :)
 
DD is in ballet to help with her gymnastics. She really likes it but when I enrolled her I talked at length with the owner/instructor. She was on the same page and I know she gives DD corrections. DD had a move all messed up and the owner took the time to work with her after class to get her back on track. I look at dance as play time for DD and I am fine with that as long as I am seeing it helping with her beam and floor. I know many in DD's class are not getting a lot of correction because it is still "fun" at this age. I would ask to observe and try a class at any studio and see what you think before you commit to their program. I am very happy with where we are and the results we are getting. I wish you luck in finding something that works.
 
I came to the gym world from ballet. Never took a gymnastics class in my entire life, but spent a significant portion of it in a ballet studio.

First, at age 6 and possibly age 7, many of the great minds in ballet believe that dance class should be little more than fun. Even many of the most famous school do not work seriously with students under the age of 7.

That said, I greatly question the quality of a studio that would think little of moving a student around in levels without unusually advanced technique and development for the dancer's age. In the dance world there is a term called dolly dinkle studio. A dolly dinkle studio looks great on the outside---flashy facilities, lots of classes (often in a multitude of styles), an unhealthy focus on the eventual recital or competitions, and little quallity instruction. Dolly dinkles are often expensive, with lots of extras---you have to buy from their shop, etc. I don't know if this is what you encountered, but I wouldn't be surprised. If so I'm sorry.

My advice, one way or the other, would be to stick with what you know right know, the rec program and the church one. Put your feelers out and take a sample class here and there. Try new studios until you find the right studio.
 
I know a lot of gym moms out there are probably in the same boat you're in. Or, they are thinking of adding dance to their dd/ds's schedule. So, here are my tips for picking a quality ballet studio (I think most would hold true for other styles of dance as well, but don't hold me to that one):

1.) A staff with professional, performance experience, this information should be readily available to you

2.) While other styles may be offered, a distinct focus on ballet technique. It is usually ill-advised to study more than two styles of dance and one will generally dominate

3.) Instructors who are professional in appearance and when speaking to you and your child/children---this is their job!

4.) Clearly delineated guidelines for behavior, dress, and expectations

5.) A schedule of progressive degrees of difficulty--a 6 year might go for 1 our once a week, an eight year old twice, and fifteen year old for twenty+

6.) A past track record of successful dancers---students in university programs, students at major schools (Pacific Northwest Ballet, SAB, ABT, Atlanta Ballet, etc...), students dancing in companies; not just title winners in competitions

7.) Studios that are clean, organized, and safe.

8.) Instructors who are trained and certified in one of the many styles or by RAD

9.) Distinct programs for boys and girls beyond the earliest levels

10.) The studio at which you and your child/children feel most comfortable
 
my daughter is 5 years old. And she has been doing dancing for a couple of years. We have the same, we are not allowed to watch untill the last week of term. I went searching around for my dd class, and I have to say they were very good. Last year my dd wanted to continue with her dance, however her gym classes clashed as they were both on the same days. So again I went and spoke to people about it and we ended up a the school where our so you think you can dance winner went, so I thought they must be very good, and they were, when we had parent viewing they explained exactly what they were doing, and we as parents had to get up and learn the dance, so we could help them at home. this year they wanted her to skip a whole level, but the same thing has just happened where now her hours have jumped to 5 days a week and dancing 2 times a week, it just isn't going to happen. So my dd had to tell me which one she wanted to do, that was very hard for her as she loves both of them as much as each other. However she told me she wanted to do gym, so now she isn't dancing, but they do do a dance session in her gym classes.
 
I know a lot of gym moms out there are probably in the same boat you're in. Or, they are thinking of adding dance to their dd/ds's schedule. So, here are my tips for picking a quality ballet studio (I think most would hold true for other styles of dance as well, but don't hold me to that one):

1.) A staff with professional, performance experience, this information should be readily available to you

2.) While other styles may be offered, a distinct focus on ballet technique. It is usually ill-advised to study more than two styles of dance and one will generally dominate

3.) Instructors who are professional in appearance and when speaking to you and your child/children---this is their job!

4.) Clearly delineated guidelines for behavior, dress, and expectations

5.) A schedule of progressive degrees of difficulty--a 6 year might go for 1 our once a week, an eight year old twice, and fifteen year old for twenty+

6.) A past track record of successful dancers---students in university programs, students at major schools (Pacific Northwest Ballet, SAB, ABT, Atlanta Ballet, etc...), students dancing in companies; not just title winners in competitions

7.) Studios that are clean, organized, and safe.

8.) Instructors who are trained and certified in one of the many styles or by RAD

9.) Distinct programs for boys and girls beyond the earliest levels

10.) The studio at which you and your child/children feel most comfortable

Thank you so much for this great post greyhoundrescue! DD has been getting more and more into dance and I can totally see the difference that you mentioned above in the 2 studios where dd has danced. The studio where dd has been doing the Nutcracker (we'll call studio A) is strictly ballet and hits all the key points that you mentioned above :). The other studio (we'll call studio B) is more competition dance based and rather "glitzy". If dd wants to pursue ballet further, I have already decided that she will go with studio A. When we auditioned for the Nutcracker I did have a good impression of the professionalism and seriousness of the studio. Also--it seemed like dd was learning so much more technique just in the rehearsals.
 

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