WAG Does USAG compulsory text and exemplar video lead Righties to Right-hurdle RO?

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Is your hurdle for round off same side as your dominant hand

  • Same side dominant hand and hurdle (e.g., Right handed, Right knee up to hurdle)

    Votes: 16 39.0%
  • Opposite side hand and hurdle (Right handed, Left knee up hurdle)

    Votes: 25 61.0%

  • Total voters
    41

Alyssa S.

Proud Parent
Judge
The possibilities for my inquiry seem limited:
(1) Round Off--R-RO or L-RO--(defined here by which knee is up in the hurdle);
(2) Twists and turns-- R (clockwise), or L (counterclockwise).

The ELITE Rightie gymnasts frequently perform L-RO, and L-twist, correct? I understand that is typically desirable for Righties.

But Beginning in JO L2, a gymnast must pick a R-RO or L-RO, and several turns (clockwise or counterclockwise). Then, L3, esp. beam dismount, builds upon those decisions (R-RO vs L-RO).

If you follow the USAG text and exemplar videos, they show the Righties select R-RO, R-twist, and R-Turns with R leg lifts, R kicks, R leaps).

Will the Righties who follow the videos and text precisely need to switch to a L-RO and L-twist to become elite?

I think I am I missing something here. At the same time, the USAG text appears to leave room for Righties to reverse the round off, but the video and the text are clearly more persuasive to most coaches and gymnasts around here.

Why wouldn't USAG text and videos show Righties with a L-RO and L-twist?
 
I'm actually really interested in this thread.

I would say that the asterisks are important. Read the last point in the photo...

ImageUploadedByChalkBucket1420177846.298807.jpg
 
The videos and illustrations are meant to be visual aids to provide coaches with an idea of what the routine should look like. Righty routines with a R-RO are much more common than reversing the RO, so that's what the video shows. However, the text allows for the reversal of almost every major element aside from splits, leaps, and turns. And of course reversing the entire routine. So I suppose if a righty had stronger left sided dance, they would do the lefty routine and reverse the tumbling. Why is it optimal for elites to do left sided RO & twisting? That's an interesting point that I've never heard of before. I don't think a gymnast would need to switch their RO and twisting to be an elite. Look at Jordyn Wieber. She does R-RO, R twisting, & R leaps and turns.
 
My daughter twists right, and is right handed. I'd also like to know why she should twist left. I thought they just chose whichever side worked better.
 
The ELITE Rightie gymnasts frequently perform L-RO, and L-twist, correct? I understand that is typically desirable for Righties.



?


Can you just explain what you mean by a rightie?

Here if you left round off, I think you would be termed a leftie ( although I don't hear the term). Are you referring to split direction? Or handwriting? Or something else I can't think of.

We don't have compulsory routines so don't have to worry about text like you do. We teach the round off to be whatever side they cartwheel on , which is whichever side comes natural. Twist comes from that.

Our elite system is different to yours but most gymnasts split, round off, twist And spin on the same side. There are some clubs who encourage Carol Angela Orchard's ideas of 'directionality' where backwards moves like bwo and flicks split on one leg and forward moves like split leaps and forward walkovers split on the other leg. Is this the ' desirable' you are referring to. It does enable free cartwheel, free walkover, Layout on beam as a series which is nice.
 
Interesting thread! My daughter is ambidextrous but typically writes with her right hand. Throws, kicks and does most other sports equally both handed. She originally did round offs left in low level J.O., but was made to switch right due to splits and turns being stronger that way. She currently is doing round offs right and twists left. Although, strangely enough can round off left and twist right too, but not as pretty as the other way. But in early J.O. she was definitely told to "pick a side" by her coaches. I'm interested to see what other coaches think here.
 
I don't really think I fully understand the question as I always thought the USAG routines could be reversed if needed?

I am right handed (assuming this is what you mean by righty).
I did the following:

Leaps = Left leg (I now believe this should have been right - see below)
Forward walkover - left leg stepped forwards into lunge
Cartwheel - left leg stepped forward into lunge
Backward walkover - left leg raised (I now believe this to be wrong for connecting skills which I'll explain below)
turning jumps/twists - left

So the backward walkover thing - imagine doing the sequence above linked together.
Split leap on right leg - back (left) leg swings forward into Forward walkover and finishes with left leg raised - go straight into a left leg cartwheel - finish in a lunge. Lift front leg (right) backward walkover to finish with left leg very slightly behind (as if dismounting from beam) half turn jump will naturally feel easier to the left as twisting to the right would mean twisting towards the front leg - perhaps causing crossed legs.

Now imagine those basic skills become something more advanced:
Free walkover connected to free cartwheel - easy - no leg swapping involved!
Free walkover - free cartwheel - layout step out - easy - no leg swapping! If I had ever got to this level I'd have struggled as I'd have needed to swap legs after the free cartwheel!

As a club we do lots of work on trying to determine which side a gymnast will naturally twist when they first enter our development programme - but I guess that is the beauty of not competing until age 8 here! Lots of time to work on things like this - also no compulsory text to follow (as such)
 
I do R-RO, left split leaps, and twist to the left! I'm a bit all over the place! I'm only doing jump full turns for anything close to twisting so of course when I get up to the level of doing twisting skills that may change!
 
DD has two teammates who've always done their compulsory routines reversed. Same with DS. It's not a problem. For both of them, the coaches said that twisting direction would be determined later on and would not be based on the directionality of their ROs and other elements of the compulsory routines. I think DD is righty RO but lefty twister. DS is just starting, so not sure about him yet.
 
This topic interests me too. To me, it would make much more sense to determine twisting direction first and teach cartwheel, roundoff, turns, etc. to match the twisting direction. Perhaps some coaches do this, but I know many do not. This is not to say that figuring out twisting direction for a 6 or 7 year old is 100% accurate, but, I think we could get a pretty good idea for most kids. For this scenario, a right roundoff is a left twist. Therefore, a child performing a right roundoff should perform left turns and, for the purpose of the compulsory routines, perform everything to the left, except for the cartwheel, roundoff, beam dismount. I think this would be a deduction though?
 
This topic interests me too. To me, it would make much more sense to determine twisting direction first and teach cartwheel, roundoff, turns, etc. to match the twisting direction. Perhaps some coaches do this, but I know many do not. This is not to say that figuring out twisting direction for a 6 or 7 year old is 100% accurate, but, I think we could get a pretty good idea for most kids. For this scenario, a right roundoff is a left twist. Therefore, a child performing a right roundoff should perform left turns and, for the purpose of the compulsory routines, perform everything to the left, except for the cartwheel, roundoff, beam dismount. I think this would be a deduction though?
This would not be a deduction as all those skills are allowed to be reversed. I know my kids were taught cartwheels both left and right and picked for themselves what was more comfortable for round-offs. Not sure how their coaches will approach twisting. I guess ds did one twisting move already, the level 5 high bar dismount. I don't remember which way he did it though. Is the level 6 pbar dismount also considered a twisting move?
 
Can you just explain what you mean by a rightie?

Here if you left round off, I think you would be termed a leftie ( although I don't hear the term). Are you referring to split direction? Or handwriting? Or something else I can't think of.

We don't have compulsory routines so don't have to worry about text like you do. We teach the round off to be whatever side they cartwheel on , which is whichever side comes natural. Twist comes from that.

Our elite system is different to yours but most gymnasts split, round off, twist And spin on the same side. There are some clubs who encourage Carol Angela Orchard's ideas of 'directionality' where backwards moves like bwo and flicks split on one leg and forward moves like split leaps and forward walkovers split on the other leg. Is this the ' desirable' you are referring to. It does enable free cartwheel, free walkover, Layout on beam as a series which is nice.

Thank you so much for your response. Here when I say "Rightie", I mean someone who writes (and waives) with the right, throws a ball from the right, kicks a ball with the right, leads upstairs with the right foot; and naturally turns/twists clockwise. I hope to keep my inquiry limited despite so many permutations of preferences between right and left. :)
 
Are elites all lefties? No. I'm not sure where you got that idea.

There are far more lefties in gymnastics than those who use their left hand to write, though. Handed ness has little to do with sidedness in gymnastics. But I do a right round off, and no one is going to convince me I'm secretly a left round off. I guarantee I am not. I learned everything in basic tumbling on my right side with no problems or direction on what side to use. Incidentally, I twist left.

Gabby Douglas: left foot, left twist
Aly Raisman: right foot, right twist
Kyla Ross: right, right
Mckayla Maroney: right, right
Jordyn Wieber: right, right

So most of them were righties. But if you go over a larger sample size I think you'd get closer to 50/50, with a slight favor towards righties. Maybe 60/40. Who knows though, I am just basing that guess off my own compulsory groups.

It is true that left/left and right/right has an advantage with some things: kaz style twisting on vault, and x.5 step outs on floor. The former is not that common in WAG, and the latter is nearly ubiquitous in elite WAG today.

But it's not unheard of for gymnasts to twist the opposite of their round off and it's not impossible to work around.
 
I've always learned (as @gymdog alluded to) that being left-handed or right-handed has absolutely nothing to do with someone's preferred side in gymnastics. I write with my right hand, but am a leftie at the gym. Lefty CWs, ROs, twists, left foot in front whenever I swing up into a handstand, leading during BWOs. I have a reversed split leap but can do it leftie as well.

I have a higher number of righties in my class of 13 girls, but never assumed that because of that, they HAVE to be right-handed. Now I'm curious. Might just do a little study on that next week.
 
The possibilities for my inquiry seem limited:
(1) Round Off--R-RO or L-RO--(defined here by which knee is up in the hurdle);
(2) Twists and turns-- R (clockwise), or L (counterclockwise).

The ELITE Rightie gymnasts frequently perform L-RO, and L-twist, correct? I understand that is typically desirable for Righties.

But Beginning in JO L2, a gymnast must pick a R-RO or L-RO, and several turns (clockwise or counterclockwise). Then, L3, esp. beam dismount, builds upon those decisions (R-RO vs L-RO).

If you follow the USAG text and exemplar videos, they show the Righties select R-RO, R-twist, and R-Turns with R leg lifts, R kicks, R leaps).

Will the Righties who follow the videos and text precisely need to switch to a L-RO and L-twist to become elite?

I think I am I missing something here. At the same time, the USAG text appears to leave room for Righties to reverse the round off, but the video and the text are clearly more persuasive to most coaches and gymnasts around here.

Why wouldn't USAG text and videos show Righties with a L-RO and L-twist?

because it is ALL left to the discretion of the coaches. there are nuances and differences in trampoline twisting, artistic twisting, diving twisting, etc; in the end, the coaches, no matter what country they are from, will do whatever works best for the athlete.

1 small example. Biles performs a "true" "tsuk" 2 1/2 off vault. it's not a "kasamatsu". and of course, experienced coaches know that the 1st is the most difficult. in the end, it's what worked best for her and that was trampoline twisting. :)
 
Are elites all lefties? No. I'm not sure where you got that idea.

There are far more lefties in gymnastics than those who use their left hand to write, though. Handed ness has little to do with sidedness in gymnastics. But I do a right round off, and no one is going to convince me I'm secretly a left round off. I guarantee I am not. I learned everything in basic tumbling on my right side with no problems or direction on what side to use. Incidentally, I twist left.

Gabby Douglas: left foot, left twist
Aly Raisman: right foot, right twist
Kyla Ross: right, right
Mckayla Maroney: right, right
Jordyn Wieber: right, right

So most of them were righties. But if you go over a larger sample size I think you'd get closer to 50/50, with a slight favor towards righties. Maybe 60/40. Who knows though, I am just basing that guess off my own compulsory groups.

It is true that left/left and right/right has an advantage with some things: kaz style twisting on vault, and x.5 step outs on floor. The former is not that common in WAG, and the latter is nearly ubiquitous in elite WAG today.

But it's not unheard of for gymnasts to twist the opposite of their round off and it's not impossible to work around.

all a very good point. to clarify further, many of us learned our cartwheel and round off well before we started organized gymnastics. same with the kids today. we coach what we have taught...and what we haven't.
 
D is truly mixed dominance, both handedness and in the gym. That has led to its own set of challenges. I *think* he twists left, and round offs left (again, guessing) but he leads fhs with his right. I think his scale is better on his left leg than his right. he pirouettes with left hand down, and turns with left leg. He circles on the pommel horse counterclockwise (left?) Ok..now I think he must do mostly left and the fhs is the only strange thing.

He has kiddos on his team that circle clockwise, right roundoff and right twist. There is not a set rule. I know the coaches try to figure out which way is best for each boy, but sometimes (like D) it becomes a challenge.
 
My DD is a leftie all the way. Up until she was 5, she could write with her left and right hands equally. Her Kindergarten teacher made her choose a hand. But since she started gym at 3, her 'side' has been determined since those early cartwheels. Now that she's working higher level skills, there has been some work on righty skills like split leaps and turns, but for the most part, she's still a leftie. But I will say that in our gym, she is the odd ball. When the new routines came out, it was quite a scene watching the coaches trying to reverse all the movements for her, but I wouldn't say that usag prefers righties over lefties.
 
great point Skschlag^^^and i'll tell you this. i circled on pommel horse clockwise. when i was a kid and now i still can't understand HOW a gymnast circles counter clockwise. AND i have had a couple NCAA champs and Champs and JO pommel horse champions in my time and half of them went counter. 'Dunno shaking his head in disbelievement'
 
great point ^^^and i'll tell you this. i circled on pommel horse clockwise. when i was a kid and now i still can't understand HOW a gymnast circles counter clockwise. AND i have had a couple NCAA champs and Champs and JO pommel horse champions in my time and half of them went counter. 'Dunno shaking his head in disbelievement'

WHen they have circle contests at gym sometimes they make D go Clockwise. he can do a few, but nothing like he can whip out counter.
 

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