Doing more difficult skills for your level or only the required skills?

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Muddlethru

Proud Parent
Obviously, doing the more difficult skills well is ideal. But what are your schools of thought/philosophy when choosing which route to take? Would you have your gymnast compete higher difficulty/level skills for her level which are probably not as consistent or have her compete just the required skills? Would you opt to take the deductions and potentially lower scores but higher difficulty skills or stick to the regular skills and guaranteed higher scores? I tend to lean towards doing the more difficulty skills which will eventually pay off as my daughter goes up the ladder. Higher scores are great but challenges are too. Keeping the skills at her level is less stress for her and more time on the podium. I think I'll ask her her preference. But what are your thoughts?
 
For my dd, harder skills wins over higher scores. She prefers the challenge over the medals. That's the beauty of xcel - it lets her advance at her own pace in each event. It's hard for me to sit back and see her come in lower places knowing if she did the routine other girls did, she'd be on the podium. But I have to sit back and let her do what's right for her. We went through this quite a bit last year but this year she skipped a level and is more in line with the other girls.

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Are you asking about competing skills that are disallowed and lower the start value or just doing the more difficult allowed skills for the level?
 
At my gym I think people tend to do the hardest skills that they have consistently and well, as long as they are allowed at that level. If they become inconsistent or cost a lot of points in competition, the coach might review the routine and have the girl do an easier skill, but obviously doing harder skills is good practice for the upper levels.
 
Are you asking about competing skills that are disallowed and lower the start value or just doing the more difficult allowed skills for the level?

Just doing more difficult skills -- two connected saltos instead of the required two saltos not necessarily connected, putting in allowable Cs that would count as a B, etc.
 
For level 7 and prep-op, do the minimum and do it well. A clean routine that fulfills the requirements without extra skills on which to lose points almost always scores highest. For level 8 and above, you want to show the best difficulty you can do cleanly, as their are compositional deductions for "not up to competitive level." That is my opinion, as a judge at least.
 
For level 7 and prep-op, do the minimum and do it well. A clean routine that fulfills the requirements without extra skills on which to lose points almost always scores highest.

The question isn't which routines score the highest but what is best for the girl and that is highly individual, based on their goals. Some girls (and parents) want to be on that podium for every event. Doing the bare minimum will give them the best shot. Others just want the added challenge so doing harder skills works for their goals.

Dd performed her kip every meet last year even though most girls at her level did only a pullover. She scored lower due to deductions but she didn't care. For her it was about doing the best she could do. It was hard for me to sit back and not see her pull higher scores, knowing she did a harder routine and was penalized for it not being as clean but its not about me. It's about what she wants out of gymnastics.

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I am no longer a gymnast or a coach, but it is very difficult at times to keep my opinions to myself when it comes to dd's gymnastics. Thankfully dd is still in compulsory levels and this issue does not come up. I will say that if she chooses to continue through the higher levels, I will be very hopeful that she does not include any skills in competitions that are not competition ready. Just because you trained a skill with a higher dv, does not mean that it is competition ready. Seeing some girls chuck skills makes me incredibly uneasy. I would say that if BOTH the gymnast and coach are confident with the skill being able to be executed SAFELY, than go for it and get it polished and perfected throughout the season. I am aware there is no guarantee that anything is 100% safe, but especially in a connecting series if your success ratio in training is less that 90%, I would hold off, regardless of how impressive it looks, because really, if it is performed with hesitation or poorly executed, it really isn't that impressive anyway. The deductions would probably out weight the DV.
 
My daughter's philosophy on this is...do the requirements, do them clean, make no mistakes, get off apparatus...she doesn't do anything "extra" unless she knows she will nail it..."why give away points?" is her take on it..
 
My daughter is not chucking skills. I am not talking about competing skills that she has not mastered, though my initial post may somehow give that impression. With nerves, distractions at a meet, mistakes happen whether you are doing a less difficult skill or a higher difficulty skill. But doing bigger skills may have a higher incidence of bigger mistakes. For instance, if my daughter just did her RO, arabian step out, RO, back tuck, i don't think she would ever fall on her butt even if she is off that day. But if she did two saltos connected as in whip whip or pike pike, if she misses the first salto, she either cannot go for the next salto or fall on her butt. At her first meet, she over rotated her first pike almost missing the ground and still attempted the second pike where she landed on her butt. On another meet, she was doing her whip whip and accidentally twisted, got lost in the air and fell. She nails the slightly more difficult skilks 99% of the time. But when she misses it is catastrophic. If she did the simpler skill, she might just end up stepping out of the landing.

Thanks for sharing your philiosophy and thoughts on this matter. I guess I knew before posting the question that it is an individual decision. But I just wanted to see what the general consensus. Every response above offered something to ponder. Thanks again.
 
I didn't mean to imply she was "chucking" skills and from what you describe, she's just making a mistake or having a fall in a connected skill ....and as the skills get bigger, the risks are bigger (and the rewards are bigger if they get it!) but if there's a mistake, as you say , it can be catastrophic. But your daughter is still fairly young and as she matures in her competing, she will learn to think on her feet (hopefully) and what I mean by this is , if she messes up something in competition like say a series or connections or requirement, she will know to put it in later in the routine because your daughter will know the requirements and how to fix it. My daughter did this at her last meet...was supposed to connect back tuck to split leap on beam but after landing the tuck didn't feel confident right then and there so she put in the split leap connected to wolf jump later in the routine....it will come with time:)
 
Most gyms in Australia take the following approach.

1. Competing skills that you are very solid with and are of an excellent standard.
2. Working all skills for the next level.
3. Beginning and doing drills for skills at least 2 levels above your current level.
 
I didn't mean to imply she was "chucking" skills and from what you describe, she's just making a mistake or having a fall in a connected skill ....and as the skills get bigger, the risks are bigger (and the rewards are bigger if they get it!) but if there's a mistake, as you say , it can be catastrophic. But your daughter is still fairly young and as she matures in her competing, she will learn to think on her feet (hopefully) and what I mean by this is , if she messes up something in competition like say a series or connections or requirement, she will know to put it in later in the routine because your daughter will know the requirements and how to fix it. My daughter did this at her last meet...was supposed to connect back tuck to split leap on beam but after landing the tuck didn't feel confident right then and there so she put in the split leap connected to wolf jump later in the routine....it will come with time:)

Hi bookworm. It was not your post that mentioned chucking skills. In fact, I think you completely understood my question and addressed it accordingly. Also, thanks for the post above. I'll share that with my daughter. Her coach is actually giving her alternate things to do if they miss a skill.

My daughter just told me her coach decided to go all out and do the more difficult skills the next few meets. But will go for the simpler skills for states. I think I am o.k. with that. Her last meet was pretty good. So, my daughter has her confidence back.
 
that thing about putting other skills in to fulfil requirements made me laugh because i remember when my dd transitioned to the realisation that, no, the judges dont know your routine in advance and dont know your choreography so they wont realise if you forget your choregraphy and improvise (or when she was younger and wasnt good at keeping in time with the music - finishing before your music and doing some artistic arm and body waving until it finished! - so funny!)
 
I tend to use the requirements of the next level as a guideline for which allowable skills I will have a gymnast compete. I'm primarily a level 7 coach but work all the way up through level 10 at our gym. I have 6 level 7s and 4 of them are training full twists on the floor. One is ready to compete it at our next meet. I'm encouraging this for several reasons. She will have practice in a competition so next year when it is one of her level 8 skills, it will be one she will have no problems with. Secondly she will not get a deduction on the skill. Why do a full that loses .4 if she can do a layout and fulfill her requirements with little to no deduction. It also encourages the gymnasts to not be content. They tend to not want to work on skills they believe they don't need at the moment so allowing her to compete this is a great reward. You shouldn't push skills that they surely do not have mastered but there are plenty of reasons why it may not be a bad idea.
 
At our gym, if our coach thinks we're capable, we train harder skills. In the gym, our level 4's who just moved up just about have consistent kips :)
 

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