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Full spin on beam deductions and all about GB WAG programmes

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rd7

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Ooops

^^^ was meant for Flossy's post.
 

bogwoppit

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This thread is coming along beautifully. I am so glad Faith full turn took us here. Maybe we need a UK gym forum??? Flossy what does your DD compete? I think you are further north than Margo aren't you (though more south would make you awfully wet!!)?
 
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Flossyduck

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Yes exactly. The compulsories have set moves you must compete, plus the range, and they have pass or fail. The voluntaries are just that - you don't have to compete them, there are no set moves, but certain difficulty has to be achieved and there is also a cap on the difficulty of skills, so that kids are broadly in the same skill park. No range at the voluntaries either, so you get girls who didn't do compulsory 4, because they struggle with range, compete voluntary 4 and occasionally outscore the compulsory girls to make the national final. I think once you are level 3 you must have passed the compulsory though? There is a separate competition for out of age levels, usually around the same time. That doesn't result in a national final, but allows other gymnasts to compete at the higher difficulty because the grades routines have set (simpler) moves too, which can be frustrating for maybe a late starter who has good skills but is restricted to grades because they missed the compulsory stream timetable, or weren't selected, or didn't get on with range. My dd is level 4. Today we would be wet whether we live north or south of Margo, because it's been throwing down hailstorms all over the uk. Except I believe in Cornwall!
 

bogwoppit

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Yes exactly. The compulsories have set moves you must compete, plus the range, and they have pass or fail. The voluntaries are just that - you don't have to compete them, there are no set moves, but certain difficulty has to be achieved and there is also a cap on the difficulty of skills, so that kids are broadly in the same skill park. No range at the voluntaries either, so you get girls who didn't do compulsory 4, because they struggle with range, compete voluntary 4 and occasionally outscore the compulsory girls to make the national final. I think once you are level 3 you must have passed the compulsory though? There is a separate competition for out of age levels, usually around the same time. That doesn't result in a national final, but allows other gymnasts to compete at the higher difficulty because the grades routines have set (simpler) moves too, which can be frustrating for maybe a late starter who has good skills but is restricted to grades because they missed the compulsory stream timetable, or weren't selected, or didn't get on with range. My dd is level 4. Today we would be wet whether we live north or south of Margo, because it's been throwing down hailstorms all over the uk. Except I believe in Cornwall!
Perfect. I think the picture is getting less muddled. It really does sound like there is something for every one in the UK. FLoor and vault comps are a great idea, but do not exist here at all. The club I know in Kendal has girls that compete it and it seems great for minimal hours. Pouring down here today too, maybe it's global. But my mum in Northumberland said she saw white stuff too!! Hail is nasty though.
 

Learning Parent GB

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This has helped me understand a lot more. Thanks. And to bring it back to the title of the thread, my DD has very recently mastered her full spin on beam reliably without falling off.
 
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bogwoppit

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And to bring it back to the title of the thread, my DD has very recently mastered her full spin on beam reliably without falling off.
NOw that is impressive, it is a beast of a skill.
 

Flossyduck

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^^^^^^^Yey! I love full spins on beam, I think they pretty! Should mention that there is a combined champ for compulsory and voluntary each year too. And I believe that the top few (10?) combined are usually invited to national squad for that age level. So an incentive to be solid on compulsory and also upskilling plenty for the voluntaries. It weeds out those who have only concentrated on perfecting the basic compulsory skills and no more, because there wouldn't be time to upgrade enough to impress six months later. Re-takes for compulsory can be done at the voluntaries.
 
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bogwoppit

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^^^^^^^Yey! I love full spins on beam, I think they pretty! Should mention that there is a combined champ for compulsory and voluntary each year too. And I believe that the top few (10?) combined are usually invited to national squad for that age level. So an incentive to be solid on compulsory and also upskilling plenty for the voluntaries. It weeds out those who have only concentrated on perfecting the basic compulsory skills and no more, because there wouldn't be time to upgrade enough to impress six months later. Re-takes for compulsory can be done at the voluntaries.
If you retake a compulsory at voluntaries, does it take the same format as a regular compulsory comp?
 

Jenny

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^^^^^^^Yey! I love full spins on beam, I think they pretty! Should mention that there is a combined champ for compulsory and voluntary each year too. And I believe that the top few (10?) combined are usually invited to national squad for that age level. So an incentive to be solid on compulsory and also upskilling plenty for the voluntaries. It weeds out those who have only concentrated on perfecting the basic compulsory skills and no more, because there wouldn't be time to upgrade enough to impress six months later. Re-takes for compulsory can be done at the voluntaries.

Also weeds out those who have concentrated on chucking skills with bad form because they won't have good enough basics to impress at compulsories and range.
 

Flossyduck

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^^^^^^^^Ok, I don't have direct experience of this, but I think my information is correct. It isn't worth re-taking any level before level 3, because that is the first one you must pass to progress. So clubs wouldn't bother repeating compulsory 4 and would just go for voluntary. If someone needs to re-take their compulsory they can do it at the voluntary comp, six months later. They compete the compulsory moves on the day, including the range and conditioning, and are seeking to get the pass score only. I don't think their routines are judged as part of the voluntary comp. It is just a re-take by arrangement. However it isn't unheard of for a girl who is up to it, to re-take their compulsory and then compete in the voluntary on the same day. Obviously it's going to be two different sets of routines and a lot taken out of the gymnast and most clubs would prefer to concentrate their efforts on the one they need to pass. But I believe it has been done on occasion and is allowed. "Also weeds out those who have concentrated on chucking skills with bad form because they won't have good enough basics to impress at compulsories and range. " Sort of see where you are coming from, but as the compulsory comes first, those girls would have been weeded out before then. Girls doing levels tend to have immaculate form (with exceptions obviously, but then they don't usually pass), because the elite track focus lots and lots of effort on that to avoid the tiny deductions which will come later down the line. The comp is judged by FIG. You often see the compulsories take place on the same day and alongside national and some other grades and it's the one time you get to appreciate the difference in how the girls look when competing alongside each other. They have the luxury of spending hours on conditioning and form and it does show.
 

Iwannabemargo

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What Flossie said !

I would add that What you compete is entirely down to the club/County you are in.

Bog if you message me you email I have some good begginers guides that I can email you.

I would break it down - from a rural, out of touch points of view as :

90% of our gymnasts Do BAGA badges and a rec f&v comp.
10% will Do regional grades 14-9
4 of our girls will do grades 8 - 2 .

We also compete within the County 2 and 4 piece at three levels. Novice, Intermediate and County.

Novice don't somersault on floor, don't Do acro on beam, more than a handspring on vault, or any high bar moves other than the squat on and catch.

Intermediate don't double anything although they Do start to twist. Limited acro on beam with conection, no giants on bars.

County anything else !


We have around 300 girls and boys in the club.

Sent from my CnM Touchpad 9.7 using ChalkBucket mobile app
 
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Jenny

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If someone needs to re-take their compulsory they can do it at the voluntary comp, six months later.
.
This depends on your region.
.


. "Also weeds out those who have concentrated on chucking skills with bad form because they won't have good enough basics to impress at compulsories and range. " Sort of see where you are coming from, but as the compulsory comes first, those girls would have been weeded out before then.

Quite a lot of clubs don't compete compulsory grades but do compete voluntary levels.

/
/
Girls doing levels tend to have immaculate form (with exceptions obviously, but then they don't usually pass), .
I'm confused now I thought it was grades you had to pass and levels had no pass mark and were in the autumn
 

Flossyduck

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^^^^^^ Nope. Not sure where you got that from Jenny, but it's not correct....
 

Jenny

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^^^^^^ Nope. Not sure where you got that from Jenny, but it's not correct....
Maybe your region is different. I checked and there is no pass mark for voluntary levels in my region. There is however a pass mark for compulsory grades (and club and national grades) The regions do vary widely. As we are finding out.

I had never heard of Novice until it was mentioned here.
 

Flossyduck

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You are mixing up grades/levels and compulsory/voluntary there. The compulsory levels take place in spring, almost always in March. That is definitely national - you can find the results for every region and they are compiled at BG. The national final for the top four (plus one reserve) at each level takes place in April every year. It is possible to follow the career of every 'elite' track or compulsory gymnast in the country from level 4 up. The compulsory levels are a national development programme system for elite track gymnasts and are uniform across the country. You can look up the technical handbook on the BG website to find the pass mark - which includes an overall pass plus a pass for range and conditioning, which must also be passed. The regional grades are also a national development programme system, so pretty standardised and yes there is a well published pass/distinction mark for them too. How the regions handle their regional voluntaries, out of age comps etc. may have some discretion. If you look at the WAG technical handbook the BG technical committee publish (the new updated version has just been put on the site) it sets the national programme out clearly. 'Compulsory grades' is not a terminology I've come across, so that must be a regional thing and not a national thing. Didn't mean my post to sound snippy last night, but I had typed a response which got swallowed and anything other than a single sentence met the same result!!
 

Flossyduck

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I meant to say that the national final in April is for the top 4 from every region. The same girls often make it, from level 4 onwards, as it's difficult to transfer into the compulsory programme after about 8 years old, so you can track their progress from 8 to elite.
 

Jenny

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Girls doing levels tend to have immaculate form (with exceptions obviously, but then they don't usually pass), because the elite track focus lots and lots of effort on that to avoid the tiny deductions which will come later down the line. The comp is judged by FIG. You often see the compulsories take place on the same day and alongside national and some other grades and it's the one time you get to appreciate the difference in how the girls look when competing alongside each other. They have the luxury of spending hours on conditioning and form and it does show.
sorry it was this bit that confused me. I thought you were talking about voluntaries levels at the top as you then switched to using the word compulsories so I thought you were then changing to talk about the compulsory elite grades (or levels whichever you call them). It is quite common to call them compulsory or elite grades. In fact Rd7 did it earlier in this very thread and the TNAG website linked earlier also uses that term.

I thought you were saying voluntaries have a pass mark which they don't although I am betting someone is in a region which does just to confuse things.
 
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Flossyduck

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Lol. I think some of the difficulty has arisen because in the previous cycle they were compulsory grades and grades went up to 2. Everything changed (with major changes in the case of national grades) during the 08-12 cycle. Some people are still using the previous terminology, including some regional panels. If I'm referring to compulsory or voluntary I'm referring to the levels. The grades are all, in theory anyway, national or regional club. But as you said, there will be a region somewhere that does it entirely differently. And, they are changing again, with the introduction of level 1 and some other changes lower down... God forbid anyone should have any idea what's going on for too long!!
 

Jenny

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Very informative, thanks a lot. Are there any restrictions on training hours at any level? Can gymnasts skip grades/levels? Can gymnasts move between systems, both up and down? SO compulsory levels are where I would see R&C? Does R&R exist in the regional or club grades.
I don't think there are restrictions on training hours for grades but I think there should be. My friends dd who trains 9 hours a week competed grade 13. We found out there were some girls there who train 16 hours a week.

I mean really the hardest moves are a round off into a backward roll on floor and a forward roll on the beam. I kid you not. If you need to train 15 hours a week to achieve those skills then something is wrong somewhere. Obviously these girls came 1st but really I feel that is very unsporting!

Like training JO level 3 on 16 hours a week. Can we say sand baggers!
 
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