MAG future stars and new JO program questions

[bflipngym]

Hello.
I have a few questions about future stars and the new JO program coming soon. First let me say that my son is 7 and is on the preteam level 3. He has been in gymnastics for a year and loves it. He is very strong and pretty flexible to. He almost has his forward and side splits. (i guess thats what you call them). He also is a quick learner. he almost has the whole level 4 routine down. My questions are
1. is my son to old to be asked to be in future stars? his gym does it. They haven't asked him to be in it and I don't want to ask the coaches why because i don't want to sound pushy. I know the routines are for 8 through 13 year olds. Do they have to start when there younger? From looking at the information on USA gym website, the routines are focus on flexibility and strength which he has for such a little boy. (he's the shortest boy in the class). Just wondering what he has to have special to be considered for the program.
2. If the dosn't get into future stars will he automaticaly be division 2 in the new mens JO progam coming in 2012 or 2013? the way i was reading about it there will be a division 1 and division 2 . the division 1 kids will be able to go to different meets and qualify for better meets. but diivision 2 won't . its more for the average gymnast . If this is so, then how do division 2 kids get to be division 1? is there a test? from the way I read it the division 2 kids would be left out of meets even if they finish 1st because a division 1 kid has priority. Am I right? How does a gymnast compete in division 1?Does there coach choose which divison to put them in, or is divsion 1 only for future stars?

 

[skschlag]

I had not heard of a link between the 2. That i interesting. I had read thru all the proposed changes, but not heard of that. Can you link to it?

My son started working future stars routines at 6-7 and competing them at 8. He does not do them all. hHigh bar is still a struggle for him. He does both future stars and JO and there has not been a link between the 2. Our whole gym works future stars as warm up/conditioning with a little more emphasis in the fall toget ready for the regionals. But not all kids compete. Only the ones who are ready. My son competed the 8 year old routines last year, and we are waiting to see if he will be ready for the 9 year old routines in time (minus high bar!)

Hope this helps. I know that not all gyms do FS. In fact, in our state, only a handful of gyms participate in FS.

Shanda

 

[bflipngym]

Hi. Thanks for the reply. Here is the link to the information I was told about. It dosn't start until 2013 I think. The information about the divisions and the different meets they would qualify for are on page 4 and 5 I think. My sons coach was telling about the new changes a couple months ago. This is just a proposal but I have found more recent drafts but this one shows the whole concept and how the boys would be split up once they got to level 8. either division 1 or 2. future stars is already in division 1 but it doesn't say how other gymnasts can qualiffy for it. If anyone can help, please do.http://www.gamensgymnastics.com/age_group_structure_proposal_7-29-10.pdfe

 

[bflipngym]

sorry didn't work. new one http://www.gamensgymnastics.com/age_group_structure_proposal_7-29-10.pdf

 

[JBS]

From what I understand...Division 1 boys will basically be your top boys in the nation. Yes...Division 1 will be the Future Star boys. Also notice that the D1 boys are very age defined.

L8 = 12-13
L9 = 14-15
L10 = 16-18

 

[bflipngym]

So a division 2 boy can't get a scholarship? I know its hard to get one, but now there will be zero percent chance. .. if this is the case will the team fees for division 2 be lowerthan division 1 now that division 2 kids have no future past the JO program? Or can division 2 gymnasts still try to be elite after JO? It seems the split dosnt take into account late bloomers. Men peak later then women. Is division 1 only for former future stars gymnasts? can a division 2 gymnast test into division 1 through meets? Does a gymnast quallify for division1 just by being able to do optional and technical routines for that level? Do division 2 gymnasts only do the optional routines and that is why there in that division? If so, can a division 2 gymnast that gets high scoresat a meet ,later that season do the technical routines too and compete division 1?Also, now won't the best coaches only coach the division 1 kids. How will that effect club / parent/ coach relations when a division 2 parent feels there child is being side stepped to rec. Coaches. ?

 

[emorymom]

So a division 2 boy can't get a scholarship? I know its hard to get one, but now there will be zero percent chance. .. if this is the case will the team fees for division 2 be lowerthan division 1 now that division 2 kids have no future past the JO program?

I don't know anything about the program but I don't see right off what the relationship would be between an athlete's NCAA prospects and team fees.

Almost all clubs -- basically subsidize team training on the backs of the rec parents. Yes to us it's a lot of money but compare that to rec parents paying $15-20 per class hour. And particularly boys -- I'm sure overall boy's programs are more expensive to run because the numbers often aren't there for the clubs. I'm not sure where the money would come from to give kids a discount just because they are really, really, really good high level male gymnasts as opposed to really, really, really, really good high level male gymnasts.

I think gymnastics has intrinsic value and crossover value.

When the time comes if you think your child needs to be challenged more then you should definitely advocate for that.

The purpose of the changes to the program are not to discourage kids who could be outstanding. It's to encourage and nurture that.

 

[JBS]

So a division 2 boy can't get a scholarship? I know its hard to get one, but now there will be zero percent chance. .. if this is the case will the team fees for division 2 be lowerthan division 1 now that division 2 kids have no future past the JO program? Or can division 2 gymnasts still try to be elite after JO? It seems the split dosnt take into account late bloomers. Men peak later then women. Is division 1 only for former future stars gymnasts? can a division 2 gymnast test into division 1 through meets? Does a gymnast quallify for division1 just by being able to do optional and technical routines for that level? Do division 2 gymnasts only do the optional routines and that is why there in that division? If so, can a division 2 gymnast that gets high scoresat a meet ,later that season do the technical routines too and compete division 1?Also, now won't the best coaches only coach the division 1 kids. How will that effect club / parent/ coach relations when a division 2 parent feels there child is being side stepped to rec. Coaches. ?

I don't really know too much about who can do D1...I would guess anyone can. You just wouldn't want to do it if you were going to get your butt kicked. The gymnast also has to be in the above age guidelines.

We train all of our athletes the same...different skills...but they all get the same respect. We don't make a lot of money (if any) off of upper level (optional) teams. If you want us to charge everyone less that we knew was not going to get a college scholarship...we would be charging 99% of the students less??? If you're being side stepped...look for a new club that cares about you.

 

[themonkeysmom]

If I'm reading this right, the program will remain largely the same until level 8 age 12/13 where the boys will split into D1 and D2.

My only question would be, is there room to crossover to D1 if a D2 athlete shows the ability, or is it a case of "once a D2, always a D2?"

Age 12 seems a bit early to decide whether a boy has elite potential or not.

 

[BlairBob]

One of the most difficult things about FutureStars is the level of the routines compared to the age and how it bumps up every year. It can pretty demanding.

I know in CA, they have an option where 8yo can compete 7yo routines and so forth as they get older. Bare in mind, this means they can't win their division but it's an option. There is also a modified level that is even easier. Basically, they want numbers.

The biggest obstacle I had when looking at FS was having boys young and talented enough to enter them in.

 

[bflipngym]

Thanks themonkeysmom for understanding what i've been worried about. I know gymnastics isn't all about getting a college scholarship. there aren't that many available anyway. but at least with the present system there is hope for a gymnast who wasn't very good at the lower levels to one day get very good and strong at the optional levels and win nationals and get a scholarship. there is hope and motivation to reach that goal.
with the new program, the kids who are in future stars, who show talent at compulsary routines, automatically get into division 1. theses division 1 kids will get looked at by all the college scouts at their meets and nationals. division 1 and 11 don't even compete together, their split up once they get to level 8 . Division 1 is the best and thats what college scouts will look for.

I know college isn't a gymnasts only goal. but it is one of them. to take that away just because they didn't show promise at an early age dosn't seem right. men peak later than women. Also from other threads I think everyone would agree that good scores in compularies dosn't = success at optianals.

so my question is am I reading this right. Can a gymnast who is placed in divsion 2 as a 12- 13 year old, do great and get 1st place in one meet, later try to move to division 1 , or are they stuck? division 1 also has a level 10 16-18 year old group . can a division 2 gymnast who gets strong and very good compete division 1 as an 18 year old later on in his career. Also , can a division 1 gymnast switch to division to if all the talent he showed as a young gymnast didn't pan out. he didn't have the drive and passion and all the other things that make up a gymnast, not just talent alone.

also I was reading later in the link I posted on page 13 that clubs are to decide which division they wish to coach their gymnasts in. either division 1 or 2 participants it says. If thats the case, can they only choose one or the other? what if they have an extreamly talented kid but they only particapate in dvision 2? or they only are in division 1 but have a kid who finishes last at all meets and feels discouraged and would need a better division to compete in with his talent level? Just questions I was wondering about. Thanks for anyone who could answer , even if just one of my many ?????

 

[bflipngym]

Also was wonndering what will happen to current level 8, 9 and 10 gymnasts today. Will they automatically be in division 2 and not be able to compete against division 1 ? wouldn't all clubs want their club to be a division 1 club to award all the hard work these kids went through and to give them a chance to get a scholarship. to give them a chance to be looked at by scouts at division 1 meets?

 

[JBS]

I'm sure anyone can do D1...but D1 has requirements:


Division 1 requires Technical Sequences and Optional Routines


Levels 8, 9 & 10:
• Must perform both Technical and Optional routines at the State Championships to qualify to the
Regional Championships in D1.
• Must perform both Technical and Optional routines at the Regional Championships to qualify to
the Junior Olympic National Championships in D1.
• Must perform Optional Routines at the Junior Olympic National Championships in order to
qualify to the Junior/Senior Elite National Qualifier

If they are good enough for D1...they should go for it.

A couple more things:

Technical sequences = compulsories

D1 is a program that is obviously looking for our national team...not Penn States team. It's fairly early to tell how the two tracks will end up.

 

[bflipngym]

Thanks JBS. Just a few more questions. So division 1 does compulsories and optional routines at the meets and division 2 only does the optional routines. So are the compusories the same skills that level 8 9 and 10 are doing right now as optional skills, only they have to do all required skills for a level plus do optional routines that will take a variety of skills from different levels? whereas division 2 only picks a few skills thay can do and make an optional routine out of them for each event? So all the new program is doing is adding compulsories for the gymnasts who can do them, and if they can then they can compete division 1. sounds simple now that youve explained it ( if I understand you right) I guess what got me confused is the whole future star thing and how they would be consiidered divisiion 1. I guess they will have to be able to do the level 8 compulsories to compete in division 1 or they will have to be in division 2. So its not an automatic placement into division 1?Also the way I was reading about it, clubs have to pick to compete in either division 1 or 2 on page 13. So i thought it was more like a division 1 or 11 league, not up to the gymnasts but up to the clubs.

 

[LilHawkMom]

I went and read the link and it all sounds very confusing! How would this actually play out at meets?? Would there be div 1 meets and then div 2 meets? I would bet most boy gyms may only have 1 or 2 Div 1 boys and the rest Div 2 making it even more difficult for coaches I would think if they are having to go to two different division meets. And more expensive. For example, my son will be the only one going to try out for future stars and we have to pay a lot since it is just him and no other boys to help divide the cost for travel and coaching etc. It definitely seems like they want to have this to encourage more boys (which is a good goal to have) but not sure if this is the best way to go about it.

 

[bflipngym]

that's what I've been thinking. There aren't that many boys to begin with , and now they want to splitf them up. There will be different meets that that each division does. That was why I thought being in division 1 would be more expensive since there will be less gymnasts. As far as I know they aren't doing this with the girls, and they have a lot more gymnasts. Why start withthe boys. We need them all at the same meets. There aren't enough of them

 

[skschlag]

I don't really like it either, but I am guessing (hoping) that this is a way they are trying to get more boys to stay in gymnastics. And it doesn't start until level 8. A lot of boys quit around the high school time due to time constraints and other commitments (girls ). Maybe having 2 different tracks will keep more boys around. I guess we won't really know how it will work until it starts happening!!!!

That being said, there should be some way to have the meets together. Like have 2 different tracks for the meets. That shouldn't be too hard to figure out!

 

[JBS]

Just so everyone is clear at the level of gymnastics that D1 will be looking for:

Here is a 14 year old that would be a D1 gymnast in the new program...

[video=youtube;_Sjd4X5yMrk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Sjd4X5yMrk[/video]

http://www.gymnastike.org/speaker/1...n-Kimble-Double-Front-half-out-P-Bar-Dismount

D1 is a track that is looking specifically for our National Team. D2 is the track that looks like it will be similar to what it is now. If all the future star boys were removed from competition...I would have some happy boys on my team.

 

[Deleted member D3987]

Also was wonndering what will happen to current level 8, 9 and 10 gymnasts today. Will they automatically be in division 2 and not be able to compete against division 1 ? wouldn't all clubs want their club to be a division 1 club to award all the hard work these kids went through and to give them a chance to get a scholarship. to give them a chance to be looked at by scouts at division 1 meets?

i regret that you have been given bad information. or, you're misunderstanding how the system runs. and there are no such thing as "scouts" in college gymnastics.

no matter what kind of competitive programs there are, both boys and girls, regardless of the "titles" they place upon them, the only thing college coaches will look at now and in the future are those that are the best gymnasts. and no one can dictate to a club what they will do. bottom line...there will always be enough gymnasts to recruit.