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For Coaches Getting kids accustomed to multi-flipping skills

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Geoffrey Taucer

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I have one guy who is absolutely amazing on high bar. Everything I throw at him he picks up almost immediately.

Working flyaways on pit bar, he finishes flipping well above the bar and is still on the way up. He could have an easy, beautiful double-back, but he's never done any double-rotating skills before, and is afraid to try the double even into the pit. He's 15 and a good bit taller than I am, so hand-spotting him on double-backs elsewhere isn't really an option. We don't have any overhead spotting rigs.

Anybody have other ideas for how I might be able to get him comfortable adding that second flip?
 
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BlairBob

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Doing doubles into the pit from a run and doing double front tuck and high and slow front lay besides doing the same from a block and minitramp doing snapdown.

Eventually work the 1 1/4 on tramp.

He needs the sense of the multiple rotations instead of just throwing it. That's what pit and tramp are for.
 

Geoffrey Taucer

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Doing doubles into the pit from a run and doing double front tuck and high and slow front lay besides doing the same from a block and minitramp doing snapdown.

Eventually work the 1 1/4 on tramp.

He needs the sense of the multiple rotations instead of just throwing it. That's what pit and tramp are for.

My problem right now is that he won't even throw it off of pit bar. I'll try having him do some double fronts off a mini-tramp, though; I think he'll be more comfortable with those.
 

ryantroop

Member
Sep 21, 2008
423
Illinois
Couple approaches that may help...

Easiest - layout + 1/4 dismount. Once he gets the feel of "keep going" it's good from there...

Little more difficult - Tuck to standing dismount - backward roll on landing. Im not a fan of this, but as Im sure you can see, it gets the idea out.

Little more difficult - work back + back on tumble track, which will eventually lead to layout + 1/4 which leads to doubles in the pit.

Most difficult (IMO) - do the floor standing double back drill, and have him roll down the wedges for a double. It's an ugly way to approach a developmental issue.

It sounds like he just needs more time in the gym and a desire to push himself. A little fear is a good thing - but if he flat out refuses it is because he has a lot of fear at the moment. Help him work through the fear by taking away the uncertainty of what will happen, and help him understand his world by figuring out developmental ways to let him "feel" the experience.


Good luck dude! Let us know how everything turns out.

Ryan
 

gymdog

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Layout to back, layout to back, consistently.

Then I'd move to tuck timers - just from a cast. Work this up stacking some soft mats (appropriate for timers, I'm sure you know where I'm going). You can put them on a slight incline (i'd do wedge underneath with some mats on top, put the bar where he can swing through, don't get too high but you don't want to be excessively low), timer to back and roll down. If he's scared of the rotation into the tuck, he can start with layout to back and then pull into tuck roll. That will likely feel "safer".

"double back" off bars is really like 1.25 to 1.5 flips...you're letting go somewhere through the first flip. On tramp you could do, start laying down, bounce (you need to be on the tramp to bounce/spot this) a couple times into flip. Progress to timer (someone can slide a mat under, it's probably best). He can start getting his arms up by his ears and then trying to roll out of it if you want (he needs to be careful to still hit on his back with his arms up and not kick his face though).

Sort of the idea of this drill, flipping from back, but an easier spot for you:

[YOUTUBE]U4joM59ckps[/YOUTUBE]
 

Geoffrey Taucer

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He's already comfortable with the flyaway to his back -- in fact usually what he does (into the pit) is a cast flyaway to his back (almost to candlestick). It's that last little bit, where his head goes under, that he's afraid of.
 

gymdog

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Ah, I got it. Well I'd try to set up kind of an incline where he can flyaway to his back and roll down.

This is way too steep (set up for single flyaway) but the basic concept

[YOUTUBE]HtTJNTb7ZyA[/YOUTUBE]

If you set it so he can do the layout to his back, then he can work on rolling off. So obviously it needs to be low enough he can do the full flyaway to his back.
 
K

KBT

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Could you go to open gym at another facility where they do have an overhead spotting belt? I was terrified to do the front part of a toe front even into a pit and the spotting belt I think would have been the only way I could have done it (and then I hurt my arm and haven't been able to work out since). Some people just need to get the "feel" in a super safe environment.
 

ryantroop

Member
Sep 21, 2008
423
Illinois
What about learning a double on rings first? Where there is no bar?

.. It seems like you need to find out what he's afraid of.. is it just the flipping over part? Or is it being lost? Address his problem, not the symptom.

Again, it sounds like a confidence thing - he needs to just get comfortable doing what he is already doing...
 

Geoffrey Taucer

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Jan 21, 2007
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Baltimore, MD
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What about learning a double on rings first? Where there is no bar?

.. It seems like you need to find out what he's afraid of.. is it just the flipping over part? Or is it being lost? Address his problem, not the symptom.

Again, it sounds like a confidence thing - he needs to just get comfortable doing what he is already doing...

We don't have pit rings, and he's too big for me to hand-spot him on the double there (especially since his flyaway on rings is nowhere near as strong as it is on high bar)

I think what he's afraid of is, quite simply, turning over that second time. I don't think he's afraid of hitting the bar.
 

Linsul

Active Member
Sep 19, 2008
876
Pripyat
I have nothing to add here except that I feel your pain GT :( I have 1 kid who could absolutely start turning out double backs on the floor but has huge fears regarding 2 rotations. She is not competitive so I don't push her.

Well, now that I think of it maybe I do have something minor to add. With her, since there is no urgency to add the second rotation, I just play with the extra flight time she has. I'm hoping she can get a feel for it and maybe it will click that she has all this floating time to kill. She can do bhs, whipback, whipback, bhs, HUGE back tuck. Or layout, or pike, whatever she wants really. She's done layout half and full at the end of her tumbling series as well, and working doubles into the pit. We're literally playing at this point since she's not competitive to keep her from being bored on floor and not playing into her double back fears unecessarily. Kinda rambled there, sorry. This is going to sound random probably, but at the end of her tumbling I have her toe-touch (straddled) then pull to her tuck/pike. She loses no height and she snaps to it with no hesitation. I'm hoping that she will be more open to trying doubles with a spot just by knowing that in the time it takes to toe-touch then pull to her flip that she could've turned out a double. She can also see clearly her height from that position and know that she's got enough to double back should she choose to. We've been doing this for 2 workouts and she says she's going to try for the double back into the pit next week, but we'll see lol.

I'm sorry it's not high bar or rings, but I have no experience in those areas :( I'm just saying if there's something that has no rotation that could possibly be thrown in maybe it will make him realize he's holding back over nothing? If he can see and feel that he's got everything to throw them, then maybe logic will take over...my husband tells me men like that logic stuff, I of course have no idea what he's talking about and chalk it up to myth :p
 

dunno

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maybe i'm late for this. please go to a gym near your area that can help you with this. their must be someone near you to go thru the steps with you. getting help will make the learning for the both of you less daunting. and first and foremost "do no harm".
 
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