WAG Gymnastics recruiting services
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GREAT DISCUSSION! THANK YOU
For us, i think we are contemplating a recruiting service to guide us through the process rather than to get our daughter noticed- I agree with what others have said that results and skills speak for themselves. Why we feel we need a service:
1) someone to tell my DD when and how often to call the coaches. she's done a great job so far but often she feels if she doesn't have anything to update the coaches on, she doesn't bother calling - then we wonder if they might feel we aren't interested anymore. Of course, being a teenager, she is more likely to listen to an outside authority figure who aren't her parents!
2) Our coaches are GREAT but, especially during season, their focus is on skills and routines and stuff within the gym - we don't want to detract them from that.
3) Understanding coach speak - are they really interested or is she way down on the list.
4) Timing - when does she left them know a particular school is the 1st choice.
5) Decision making - what happens if she gets an offer from a program that isn't her first choice?
6) Expectations - is she really good enough for scholarship or even walk-on spot at certain programs?
For us, i think we are contemplating a recruiting service to guide us through the process rather than to get our daughter noticed- I agree with what others have said that results and skills speak for themselves. Why we feel we need a service:
1) someone to tell my DD when and how often to call the coaches. she's done a great job so far but often she feels if she doesn't have anything to update the coaches on, she doesn't bother calling - then we wonder if they might feel we aren't interested anymore. Of course, being a teenager, she is more likely to listen to an outside authority figure who aren't her parents!
2) Our coaches are GREAT but, especially during season, their focus is on skills and routines and stuff within the gym - we don't want to detract them from that.
3) Understanding coach speak - are they really interested or is she way down on the list.
4) Timing - when does she left them know a particular school is the 1st choice.
5) Decision making - what happens if she gets an offer from a program that isn't her first choice?
6) Expectations - is she really good enough for scholarship or even walk-on spot at certain programs?
I think a recruiter might be useful in this situation as well - they might her of potential loss of verbal offer before it happens due to having other clients,etc. They might be able to navigate these last minute changes and be able to help the gymnasts land a spot at another program. I would think/hope recruiter has more insights into number of openings etc. than club coaches (especially at smaller programs with less NCAA-level athletes), parents, and gymnasts....
I will add that the Coaches have a job to keep. So I completely understand when they pull a verbal offer. Sometimes it may seem unfair but honestly there isn't a person here who would just sacrifice a college head coaching job for an athlete. You / I / we wouldn't.... I also don't blame kids for changing their minds as well. It works both ways. I tell all my athletes , "now you have to KEEP the verbal". Some do.... Some don't.
bookworm
Proud Parent
X
Some thoughts on your thoughts:
2. Your coaches: your daughter's future is not (or should not be) a distraction from "stuff within the gym" ...she is part of that stuff and getting her committed bodes well for others in the gym so if gentle reminders are needed to keep this up, then do it. They should want this as well.
3. "Are they interested or not": this was a question we flat out asked every school that recruited both my girls (and we were told to do this by a good friend who was an NCAA coach) : "where is she in the queue of athletes you are recruiting?" ... if they weren't in the top 5, we moved on.
4. "1st choice" : any school you are talking to or asks is always your first choice, even if just for that moment.
5. "Offer from a school not HER first choice" : this happened to us and as crazy as it sounds , you can decline it. Life goes on. This particular school kept the offer open for a while in case she changed her mind....the school was smaller than she wanted so she didn't, but it happens more than you think.
6. "Expectations, and is she good enough" for X school: take a look at the rosters of the schools she's considered and see who actually competed week to week (Road to Nationals has that info) and then go back and look up the JO results of these competitors...if they are similar to your daughter's, proceed.....but if the girls on X team were winning JOs and always scoring 37-38s at big meets and your daughter is a 35-36 and occasionally a 37 gal who makes regionals but never JOs, then move on to a school with competitors with similar results. They may let her on this team but as a mat mover and she'd never see the competitive floor.
Thanks for these tips. you ever consider a career in recruitment counselling?? LOL.
Regarding: "Where is she on your list" - did you find the schools to be relatively honest? If I were a coach, I'd tell every gymnast they were top 5 on my list (Just like all the gymnasts telling the colleges they are their top choice per your 4th response!)
Regarding: "Where is she on your list" - did you find the schools to be relatively honest? If I were a coach, I'd tell every gymnast they were top 5 on my list (Just like all the gymnasts telling the colleges they are their top choice per your 4th response!)
bookworm
Proud Parent
Yes , actually....I was very up front, told them who my coach friend was that told me to ask that and that I didn't want to waste either of our times pursuing a pipe dream. They answered my question, only 2 said they were below 5, and I thanked them for their time and honesty and we moved on.
When each of my girls committed , I sent a personal email to each coach who took the time to reach out to recruit them (even if we never visited) thanking them for their interest but letting them know that as of X date, my daughter was committed to X school.....and I heard back from all but one of them congratulating my daughter and thanking me for letting them know. And the one who didn't respond is basically a pariah in NCAA for the past few years now due to how she behaved so there's that (karma, as my mother would say).
FlippinLilysMom
Proud Parent
We were told to start when she made it to level 10, which for her was in 6th grade. So I would say yes, if she is a level 10.
Texastwister
Proud Parent
Agree with all with the exception of #3. My daughter was told she was in their top 10 and a month later offered.
I told her not to give up and keep sending videos.
9th grade to start contacting would be fine for most of the lower DI and 10th for DII. It also depends on whether your dd is set on particular schools or is willing to cast a wide net (nationwide). If it's the latter, she may have more time for the DI schools as well.
If you haven't visited these, they are good references for which colleges have spots open per year. These obviously are only verbal commits and could change but by going through each graduation year, you get a clearer idea of who hands out offers early versus later. However, you definitely want to be on their "potential" list long before they make those offers so if you are seeing a college is offering to sophomores, you want to make sure you are contacting them by freshman year so you are on their radar. And obviously this is for scholarships. Walk-ons would be later in the process for the lower ranked schools. Collegegymfans only include DI and DII schools (though maybe not all b/c West Chester is missing for sure) but the google doc includes all DI, II, and III schools
http://collegegymfans.com/recruits-sp-367083677.html
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...aa6yBqGiIbVj3IIUOPoKr7kHyY/edit#gid=265112203
kitkat
Proud Parent
I do not feel that a service is necessary unless you don't have the time to put into the process. Its a lot of work, you need to be organized and need to be determined.
We did everything ourselves and we are so excited with the D1 school she is going to.
I did everything until it was time to start calling the schools. Then my dd took over from there.
Honestly, you can do this yourself - you just have to take the time and make a plan.
We did everything ourselves and we are so excited with the D1 school she is going to.
I did everything until it was time to start calling the schools. Then my dd took over from there.
Honestly, you can do this yourself - you just have to take the time and make a plan.
Having thought a little more on this since this thread started, I will add some additional thoughts...
Not everyone is fortunate to have a coach or fellow gym parents who are well-seasoned in the recruitment process who can advise them-if you are at a smaller gym, that may be your situation. I can see where a recruiter really could help there. I only know our own personal situation where our coach advised on each step, had us make lists of schools and then met often with my daughter to see how it was going. The process went so smoothly because I didn’t have to do anything - my daughter will do anything her coach says but if it was me driving the process, that would have been different. So again, I can see that a recruiter could be helpful to some.
Lastly as to when you need to start contacting schools, they really are only interested in L10 skills. My D was v late to L10 so we didn’t have a choice in that. She had 10 skills as a L9 so started contact at the end of L9 season but pretty much was just contacting as a first year 10. But given our situation, I really noticed all the other late commitments- there were a TON of girls that committed much later than my daughter who was summer junior year. Many were senior year and up til college started. Some were walk ons but some were scholarships that didn’t work out from the original commitment.
Not everyone is fortunate to have a coach or fellow gym parents who are well-seasoned in the recruitment process who can advise them-if you are at a smaller gym, that may be your situation. I can see where a recruiter really could help there. I only know our own personal situation where our coach advised on each step, had us make lists of schools and then met often with my daughter to see how it was going. The process went so smoothly because I didn’t have to do anything - my daughter will do anything her coach says but if it was me driving the process, that would have been different. So again, I can see that a recruiter could be helpful to some.
Lastly as to when you need to start contacting schools, they really are only interested in L10 skills. My D was v late to L10 so we didn’t have a choice in that. She had 10 skills as a L9 so started contact at the end of L9 season but pretty much was just contacting as a first year 10. But given our situation, I really noticed all the other late commitments- there were a TON of girls that committed much later than my daughter who was summer junior year. Many were senior year and up til college started. Some were walk ons but some were scholarships that didn’t work out from the original commitment.
I agree. We have been surprised by the number of spots that were still going into senior year. There are more spots available than what people typically think there are. The gymnast just needs to be open as to where they are willing to go to school. If she places restrictions such as distance, school size, campus style, etc then her options will be significantly limited. Yes, talking from experience
Muddlethru
Proud Parent
This forum is just as valuable as any recruiting service, that is if you are also willing to do the work and research. I can only speak from experience, but through multiple questions I've posted in this forum, I was able to get sufficient information to guide my daughter along with getting her a commitment to a D1 college. I've also reached out to several members who have been extremely helpful and generous with their time, knowledge and experience. I was not timid in asking questions and looking back many were pretty ignorant and ridiculous.
I know several girls from my daughter's team and from previous team members who have never been injured, have done well, who have skills that are executed better than my daughter, who have better more experienced coaches, but who are still waiting, not just for offers, but even serious interests at this point. I also know some who have hired a recruiting service who are still waiting. My daughter has been injured consistently for 5 years (since Level 9-and sometimes two injuries a year!) and if any one looked at her scores would not only see inconsistencies in her scores but that she rarely competed all four events. Most of the time, she only competed 4 events in order to qualify to states, regionals or nationals. So, she did not have a lot of videos to send college coaches. Additionally, her coach was not helpful at all in the recruiting department. But she was invited to official visits from her 1st and 3rd choice and offered a walk on on her 2nd choice.
There is enough experience in this forum to guide anyone who is willing to be guided. But if you have the money to pay for a recruiting service and prefer to go that route, I am sure it is just as helpful. But there are no guarantees for either route you chose and one thing to keep in mind is the recruiting process can be very unpredictable. Things constantly change, from the needs of the coaches, to the gymnasts themselves (injuries, priorities, interests, etc.,)
I know several girls from my daughter's team and from previous team members who have never been injured, have done well, who have skills that are executed better than my daughter, who have better more experienced coaches, but who are still waiting, not just for offers, but even serious interests at this point. I also know some who have hired a recruiting service who are still waiting. My daughter has been injured consistently for 5 years (since Level 9-and sometimes two injuries a year!) and if any one looked at her scores would not only see inconsistencies in her scores but that she rarely competed all four events. Most of the time, she only competed 4 events in order to qualify to states, regionals or nationals. So, she did not have a lot of videos to send college coaches. Additionally, her coach was not helpful at all in the recruiting department. But she was invited to official visits from her 1st and 3rd choice and offered a walk on on her 2nd choice.
There is enough experience in this forum to guide anyone who is willing to be guided. But if you have the money to pay for a recruiting service and prefer to go that route, I am sure it is just as helpful. But there are no guarantees for either route you chose and one thing to keep in mind is the recruiting process can be very unpredictable. Things constantly change, from the needs of the coaches, to the gymnasts themselves (injuries, priorities, interests, etc.,)
Congratulations to your DD!
What was the best advice you were given?
How often would your daughter communicate with the coaches via phone? Via text? Via emails? Did you ever talk to the coaches?
When did offers occur? After official visits? Did all offers come at the same time and how much time given to respond to offers?
Did choice 1, 2, 3 all believe they were her top choice when they made offers?
We’re the schools honest with regards to where she stood on their need list?
Thanks!
What was the best advice you were given?
How often would your daughter communicate with the coaches via phone? Via text? Via emails? Did you ever talk to the coaches?
When did offers occur? After official visits? Did all offers come at the same time and how much time given to respond to offers?
Did choice 1, 2, 3 all believe they were her top choice when they made offers?
We’re the schools honest with regards to where she stood on their need list?
Thanks!
Muddlethru
Proud Parent
@tomtnt
What was the best advice you were given?
There was not one best advice. There was perhaps one best advice for each situation or question I posted. But if I had to give one, it would be to continue communication with college coaches unless they inform you with absolute certainty that they are not interested in your daughter. We received hardly any communication from the two colleges who invited my daughter for official visits. And all of a sudden, we get an email! There were two other colleges (in her top 5 colleges) who expressed serious interest and from whom we received constant communication. They even indicated she was a top recruit. One dropped her last August and the other offered a walk on.
Another important advice is to be realistic with the colleges you pursue. Check out the JO history of the gymnasts who are in their team. Watch YouTube videos to see if your daughter is in line with the caliber of gymnasts they have. Look at as many gymnasts because often times the caliber of gymnasts changes from year to year.
How often would your daughter communicate with the coaches via phone? Via text? Via emails? Did you ever talk to the coaches?
End of her first year Level 10 was the first time she sent out introductory emails and videos. She was 14 years old and 8th grade, I think. Since my daughter did not have a lot to show, I we might have sent out two or three a year? We sent as many as we could to stay on their radar. Whenever you have a good meet, good training video, send it. The coaches kept telling us to just keep sending as many videos. But you still have to call. A personal relationship with the coach speaks volumes. And just to show how unpredictable recruiting is, the school she accepted an offer was one we never had an unofficial visit. We set one up, but it snowed so hard, they closed the school. And like I said, hardly any communication. So you never know.
When did offers occur? After official visits? Did all offers come at the same time and how much time given to respond to offers?
For us, everything happened summer before senior year. She was invited to two officials a month apart. The day after her first official, she got an offer and was asked to make a decision by week's end. She loved the coaches, the team, the campus and the gym. And even though this school was initially not her top choice, it quickly climbed to the top and to the point where she was not interested in going on the other official visit, which at that time before the offer was her number 1 school. I loved her number 1 school. And to date. I wish she took the opportunity to go on the official visit. But we had an unofficial visit to that school and I don't think she had that warm and fuzzy feeling. So I think she was completely sold on the offer and did not want to risk it. So she accepted a few days later. I think if she had asked for an extension, they would have granted it.
Did choice 1, 2, 3 all believe they were her top choice when they made offers?
Yes. In fact, they all asked where they were on her list. I posted this same question in the L10 social group and bookworm recommended saying they were all number 1. I have to say, her school ranking kept changing. So I can't say she was lying either. Her number 1 choice since the beginning was the school that gave her a walk on position. I think she would have been happy with any of her top 4 choices. But the school she accepted an offer was never really on the very top. But the official changed all that. So really to say to each school that they are your daughter's top choice could be true, she just does not know it yet! ;-)
We’re the schools honest with regards to where she stood on their need list?
Yes, I think they all were. Maybe they made us feel higher on their list than we were so they don't lose her. But let me be clear, my daughter is not committed to a top 20 team. It could very well be more cut throat in the highly competitive teams and perhaps someone in this forum might be able to lend their experience in that area.
What was the best advice you were given?
There was not one best advice. There was perhaps one best advice for each situation or question I posted. But if I had to give one, it would be to continue communication with college coaches unless they inform you with absolute certainty that they are not interested in your daughter. We received hardly any communication from the two colleges who invited my daughter for official visits. And all of a sudden, we get an email! There were two other colleges (in her top 5 colleges) who expressed serious interest and from whom we received constant communication. They even indicated she was a top recruit. One dropped her last August and the other offered a walk on.
Another important advice is to be realistic with the colleges you pursue. Check out the JO history of the gymnasts who are in their team. Watch YouTube videos to see if your daughter is in line with the caliber of gymnasts they have. Look at as many gymnasts because often times the caliber of gymnasts changes from year to year.
How often would your daughter communicate with the coaches via phone? Via text? Via emails? Did you ever talk to the coaches?
End of her first year Level 10 was the first time she sent out introductory emails and videos. She was 14 years old and 8th grade, I think. Since my daughter did not have a lot to show, I we might have sent out two or three a year? We sent as many as we could to stay on their radar. Whenever you have a good meet, good training video, send it. The coaches kept telling us to just keep sending as many videos. But you still have to call. A personal relationship with the coach speaks volumes. And just to show how unpredictable recruiting is, the school she accepted an offer was one we never had an unofficial visit. We set one up, but it snowed so hard, they closed the school. And like I said, hardly any communication. So you never know.
When did offers occur? After official visits? Did all offers come at the same time and how much time given to respond to offers?
For us, everything happened summer before senior year. She was invited to two officials a month apart. The day after her first official, she got an offer and was asked to make a decision by week's end. She loved the coaches, the team, the campus and the gym. And even though this school was initially not her top choice, it quickly climbed to the top and to the point where she was not interested in going on the other official visit, which at that time before the offer was her number 1 school. I loved her number 1 school. And to date. I wish she took the opportunity to go on the official visit. But we had an unofficial visit to that school and I don't think she had that warm and fuzzy feeling. So I think she was completely sold on the offer and did not want to risk it. So she accepted a few days later. I think if she had asked for an extension, they would have granted it.
Did choice 1, 2, 3 all believe they were her top choice when they made offers?
Yes. In fact, they all asked where they were on her list. I posted this same question in the L10 social group and bookworm recommended saying they were all number 1. I have to say, her school ranking kept changing. So I can't say she was lying either. Her number 1 choice since the beginning was the school that gave her a walk on position. I think she would have been happy with any of her top 4 choices. But the school she accepted an offer was never really on the very top. But the official changed all that. So really to say to each school that they are your daughter's top choice could be true, she just does not know it yet! ;-)
We’re the schools honest with regards to where she stood on their need list?
Yes, I think they all were. Maybe they made us feel higher on their list than we were so they don't lose her. But let me be clear, my daughter is not committed to a top 20 team. It could very well be more cut throat in the highly competitive teams and perhaps someone in this forum might be able to lend their experience in that area.
Muddlethru
Proud Parent
Correction, I had to look back. I don't know if it matters in terms of timing and I want to provide more accurate information since many were asking when to start sending out videos, but my daughter was a 13 year Level 10 and 7th grade when we first sent out introductory emails and videos..
Did you talk with the coaches? Just curious because I hear that’s a big no no.
bookworm
Proud Parent
We talked to them during the unofficial visits ... that was allowed back then
maybe she meant did you talk to the coaches or did your DD do most of the talking? I want DD to lead the recruiting process but I often wonder about the power imbalance when an adult professional coach is recruiting an teenage athlete. I'm not sure what is too little or too much with regards to parental involvement.
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