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He Kexin may not be old enough for Beijing

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gracefulone

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We've been discussing this pretty intensely here: http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/2008-bejing-olympics/10753-he-kexin-olympic-bar-champ.html

Nice find, though. I hadn't heard about that speech specifically, though I had heard about the competition itself. Props to you. More and more is coming out to the American public as the games approach.

However, I've posted before on China's insane (obsessive?) will to win. http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/2008-bejing-olympics/11631-china-goes-gold.html
 
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Billy

Guest
*sigh* She's obviously not old enough. One mistaken reference I could understand, but not over and over and over. And FIG is obviously not going to do anything about it because China gave them the (falsified) passport and that's good enough for them. At this point, my complaint is for all the other athletes (Jordyn Wieber and the girl from Canada come to mind) whose countries followed the rules and didn't allow them to compete yet. If FIG isn't going to enforce the rules, why bother to have them?
 
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NYgymfan

Guest
I don't get why they feel the need to cheat.....Does anyone there think they will earn the world's respect if they get caught cheating?
 

Cynical-Chick

Member
Mar 5, 2008
374
Sydney
I don't get why they feel the need to cheat.....Does anyone there think they will earn the world's respect if they get caught cheating?
We're dealing with a brutal authoritarian state, dear. Nothing would surprise me. It's not that surprising, coming from China (or any other major competitor, really). People don't want to piss off China for fear of losing a trade partner, or spooking China's leaders (who are slowly moving towards capitalism).
 
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Jojogymgirl

Guest
I will be furious if she wins gold over people that are old enough and good enough, ex- Nastia Liukin. Yes, I am rooting for the USA at the Olympics, but China is fun to watch. They have great line and AMAZING form, and hard bar routines. If China wins gold and/or if He Kexin wins gold on bars (team would win with He's bar score), I will be furious with the Chinese gymnasts and probably not watch them despite their great gymnastic ability. China will be CHEATING at the OLYMPICS if the two girls are not old enough. I don't know how they live without added stress (the athletes) of someone finding out. But, then again...IT'S CHINA. The Olympics are in China. It's really cruddy that this is happening and I hope someone does something against it whether or not they win, but I NEED someone to do something if they do win. It's unfair and against the rules. And yes, I want the US to win, but I would lose US pride if I knew they were cheating. China WILL lose my respect as the adults and leaders do this. But, I know I can never deny the beauty of Chinese gymnastics...
 
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NYgymfan

Guest
You know, Jojo, I agree with everything you said. Couldn't have said it better myself. Yes, they have great routines. And i'm sure they would be awesome in the 2012 Olympics. But rules are rules, and although I don't necessarily agree with the age limits, they are there and should be enforced the same on everyone. If she somehow does win and not get caught, she has to keep that a secret from everyone for the rest of her life. And I would honestly lose every last bit of respect I had for her for cheating, which is a shame because she is an awesome gymnast.

This only works because the Olympics are in China. If she ever tried traveling to another country with a fake passport, I imagine that she'd be in a boatload of trouble if she got caught.
 

MoonKid

Gymnast/Coach
Jun 26, 2007
95
Ontario, Canada
At this point, my complaint is for all the other athletes (Jordyn Wieber and the girl from Canada come to mind) whose countries followed the rules and didn't allow them to compete yet. If FIG isn't going to enforce the rules, why bother to have them?

Shawn which Canadian girl were you referring to? There are 3 girls all born in 1993 who I can't wait to watch next year. There's Peng Peng Lee from Toronto, Ontario who trains with 2008 Olympian Elyse Hopfner Hibbs and who's coaches are closing their gym and retiring (her male coach) and moving to England (her female coach). There's also Charlotte Mackie (younger sister of 2004 Olympian Gael) and Brittany Rogers, both from the same gym in British Columbia (I don't know how to spell the name of their town).
 
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LasswadeCoach

Guest
I can't honestly say that I don't think China are cheating, because I do have my suspicions, but I don't think it is fair to say that we should not enjoy their gymnastics anymore and hate their country. There is no absolute 100% solid proof that they have cheated, so I dont think its fair to jump the gun, alot of these articles are American, and ofcourse Americans will be annoyed and frustrated even if their is a hint of cheating, as they are the main contenders, but America have cheated in the past (I am not excusing China, IF they are cheating) and it's unfair to slaughter China for what the media have said, it is the MEDIA after all! To be honest, China have deserved a gold medal for ages, and they have always been stripped of it, and I hope they win, because I think they deserve it, their gymnastics is perfection.
 

MdGymMom01

Active Member
Mar 5, 2008
2,236
North America
In China, isn't there a different way of computing age? I read somewhere that some countries or religions start counting your age from conception, not your actual birth date. In this case, you would need to subtract 9 months from the age that they are reporting. Just a thought.
 
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NYgymfan

Guest
In China, isn't there a different way of computing age? I read somewhere that some countries or religions start counting your age from conception, not your actual birth date. In this case, you would need to subtract 9 months from the age that they are reporting. Just a thought.

Yes!! I have a Chinese friend at school and she is considered 2 years older in China then she really is. But it has nothing to do with conception, or at least that is what she tells me. When you are born, you are 1, because it is the first year that you are alive. Then when Chinese New Year passes, you get another year on your age. So since my friend was born a week before Chinese New Year, she was 2 and had only been alive for a week. Thereafter, your age increases on Chinese New Year. So in other words, in China, your age is the number of different Chinese years (Chinese New Year to Chinese New Year) you have been alive in, where in America it is how many sets of 365 days have passed since the day you were born.

Now that being said, I think the IOC probably has rules for how age should be calculated to ensure that it is the same for everyone. And those rules need to be followed. If they are found to be in violation of the rules, the athletes need to be sanctioned and the country should too if there is any wrongdoing on the part of that country's government. Not saying that it did or did not occur in this case, but if it is found to have occurred, the rules need to be enforced.
 
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NYgymfan

Guest
I can't honestly say that I don't think China are cheating, because I do have my suspicions, but I don't think it is fair to say that we should not enjoy their gymnastics anymore and hate their country. There is no absolute 100% solid proof that they have cheated, so I dont think its fair to jump the gun, alot of these articles are American, and ofcourse Americans will be annoyed and frustrated even if their is a hint of cheating, as they are the main contenders, but America have cheated in the past (I am not excusing China, IF they are cheating) and it's unfair to slaughter China for what the media have said, it is the MEDIA after all! To be honest, China have deserved a gold medal for ages, and they have always been stripped of it, and I hope they win, because I think they deserve it, their gymnastics is perfection.

I don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't enjoy their gymnastics. I think just about everyone on this board probably thinks He Kexin is an amazing gymnast, which she is. But when you are competing, there are rules to be followed, including FIG's and the IOC's. There should be no tolleration of rules violations, especially such a basic rule as an age eligibility requirement. I'm not going to hate their gymnastics, but I might question why they feel the need to cheat. If their gymnastics program is the best in the world, they should be able to win the gold without cheating. If He Kexin is the best gymnast in the world, then she can win the gold as soon as she is age eligible, which might or might not be in 2008.

As Americans, we have a Constitutional right to freedom of speech and freedom of the press. We have laws to make sure that those freedoms are not abused and newspapers are not allowed to knowingly publish false information. The newspapers, as well as other real American media sources, are simply publishing facts, which is more then the Chinese government can say about their media, their censorship of the internet, and their freedom of speech. So if it is an American media source vs. the Chinese government, I'm going to have to believe the American media source. Now having said that, our legal system is based on innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt (which is very different then absolute 100% solid proof, which is often almost impossible to do). But you can accuse someone of a crime with reasonable suspicion that a crime has occured. I think there is reasonable suspicion to believe something might have occurred (not a crime, but a rule violation), so just like our legal system, we should look into the matter, but still remember that so long as there is still reasonable doubt about He Kexin's age, she should be allowed to compete until the facts say otherwise.

(yay I actually remember my government class!)
 
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Billy

Guest
Shawn which Canadian girl were you referring to? There are 3 girls all born in 1993 who I can't wait to watch next year. There's Peng Peng Lee from Toronto, Ontario who trains with 2008 Olympian Elyse Hopfner Hibbs and who's coaches are closing their gym and retiring (her male coach) and moving to England (her female coach). There's also Charlotte Mackie (younger sister of 2004 Olympian Gael) and Brittany Rogers, both from the same gym in British Columbia (I don't know how to spell the name of their town).

I honestly don't remember her name but there was a thread about here on CB not too long ago. She just turned 16 but hasn't had enough time to earn enough points to compete. If age wasn't an issue, she would have been able to start earning points a long time ago. Of course, I think she's suffered an injury recently.
 

MoonKid

Gymnast/Coach
Jun 26, 2007
95
Ontario, Canada
I honestly don't remember her name but there was a thread about here on CB not too long ago. She just turned 16 but hasn't had enough time to earn enough points to compete. If age wasn't an issue, she would have been able to start earning points a long time ago. Of course, I think she's suffered an injury recently.

Oh, Kristina Vaculik. I agree that it sucks for her. I heard that another problem was that she was injured for part of the year and so had less chance to earn points. Also, only Elyse Hopfner-Hibbs was able to earn points before her by competing at previous worlds (and winning a medal).

Sorry that this post was a bit OT.
 
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KBT

Guest
Now that being said, I think the IOC probably has rules for how age should be calculated to ensure that it is the same for everyone. And those rules need to be followed. If they are found to be in violation of the rules, the athletes need to be sanctioned and the country should too if there is any wrongdoing on the part of that country's government. Not saying that it did or did not occur in this case, but if it is found to have occurred, the rules need to be enforced.

I believe the IOC uses the year a person was born to determine eligibility, i.e. must be born in 1992 or earlier, to eliminate the cultural differences in age. We just all say "must be 16 in olympic year" because it's easier to remember and is the equivalent of birth year in the USA culture.
 
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Billy

Guest
I believe the IOC uses the year a person was born to determine eligibility, i.e. must be born in 1992 or earlier, to eliminate the cultural differences in age. We just all say "must be 16 in olympic year" because it's easier to remember and is the equivalent of birth year in the USA culture.

I believe that is right because IOC doesn't specify down to the date. For example, a 15-year-old can compete so long as they will turn 16 during the year, even if it is after the Olympics. December 31, 1992 is still 1992 and therefore still age-eligible.
 
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whipback

Guest
I actually really hope she is underaged. I know it isn't fair to gymnasts like Nastia who couldn't go to 04, but the age restriction is so dumb. AND P.S. YOU GUYS! IT'S NOT PROVEN SHE ISN'T 16! He Kexin is a great UB worker and we will miss out on some great gymnastics if she doesn't go to the Olympics. She may not be as good in London and then I would be very upset if she wasn't able to go. Another example of this is. Kim Gwang Suk at 1989. We would have missed out on that if they didn't lie about her age.
 

kgymn

Member
Gymnast
Aug 3, 2008
324
Virginia
I actually really hope she is underaged. I know it isn't fair to gymnasts like Nastia who couldn't go to 04, but the age restriction is so dumb. AND P.S. YOU GUYS! IT'S NOT PROVEN SHE ISN'T 16! He Kexin is a great UB worker and we will miss out on some great gymnastics if she doesn't go to the Olympics. She may not be as good in London and then I would be very upset if she wasn't able to go. Another example of this is. Kim Gwang Suk at 1989. We would have missed out on that if they didn't lie about her age.


So seeing beautiful gymnastics is more important than following the rules? That's just not how it works. It the only thing that mattered was for *the* best gymnasts to go, there would be no age restrictions. These age limits aren't in place without good reason- it is for the health and physical development of the athletes. We can still SEE her gymnastics, because we can watch routines online etc. She doesn't have to compete in the Olympics to be a good gymnast OR for us to see her routines.

We have the rules for a reason. If someone being a great gymnast was the only thing that mattered we wouldn't have the age requirement.

~Katy
 
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