Parents Hey, this conditioning stuff works!

[snowbound]

Our gym has started an extra class 2x a week to condition for TOPS testing. I took DD to one, but she didn't take it very seriously (much to my frustration) but her father and I decided that since her scores (and skills) seem to have plateaued a bit that she needs to condition on the days she isn't going to the gym if she wants to keep doing this (we aren't pushing her to do gymnastics, but if she is going to do it we want her to be serious)

She wasn't able to do a press handstand with any kind of control, and when she did get to vertical, she came down like a rocket. A coach gave me some exercises to have her do to build up the muscles to do a press handstand, and yesterday she not only did one, but she managed to get back to clear support and held it for a few seconds!

I don't expect her to go nuts and make the diamond team or anything, but a straight arm kip would be nice! At least now she is starting to see the benefit, and maybe she will improve her control in handstands a bit. Just had to share.

Snowbound

 

[momlisa]

I'm a believer

I'm a big believer in this TOPS stuff, if only because a stronger gymnast may be a safer one. My dd's gym does a limited TOPS program, but I have seen a tremendous amount of progress because of it in the year she's been doing gymnastics. I actually wish all girls did TOPS conditioning, no matter their age.

 

[Shelovesthebars]

Just curious: What type of things do your dd's work on in tops practice? Our gym has an invite only program starting in level 4 and it is rather small. My dd is 4 and a couple of years away (don't know if she will be invited)but I am curious about the things that are worked on. I can't watch a practice because it is too early in the morning but I think they do some modified tops conditioning in her preteam classes but I am just guessing. It would be nice to know just so I can understand why they do some of the things they do in her class. My dd had a lot of issues when she was younger that the gymnastics conditioning has really helped her with so I agree the conditioning is very beneficial.

 

[snowbound]

here is a link to the actual requirements of the TOPS testing. In our one hour class, the gymnasts do a set number of crunches, sprints, leg lifts, press handstands, and climb the rope (my DD can climb the rope with legs, but they are supposed to do it while holding their legs to the outside of the rope held at horizontal or above)

It is a long way to our gym, so if she isn't going to be serious I am making her condition at home (unfortunately, that means she can't do a lot of the exercises) since she couldn't do the press handstands to begin with, they told her to hold a "frog" position (remember back when we were kids learning to do a head stand and you put your knees on your elbows? Like that, only with her head off the ground) and hold it for as long as possible. Since she can go all the way to 30 seconds in that position now, she is trying to press up from there. She hasn't always struggled like this, but she had a growth spurt, and now it's harder.

Snowbound

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

Snowbound... I was just wondering how old is your DD? My concern is that focusing on this issue too much at home may take away her joy in going to the gym. I also agree w/Momlisa... Conditioning definitely makes for stronger gymnasts, and I wish that every gym would incorporate some form of the training, modified of course, due to time constraints!! But I am really concerned about making her get "serious" in order to continue with it. Yes, it's an expensive sport, but as many of us has discovered here on CB through our own experiences, or those of other teammates, that if we get too overinvolved in this, it really does kill the sport for our kids!

Of course it's a different situation entirely if SHE is the one wanting the extra conditioning at home!!!

 

[starmaker]

Just curious: What type of things do your dd's work on in tops practice? Our gym has an invite only program starting in level 4 and it is rather small. My dd is 4 and a couple of years away (don't know if she will be invited)but I am curious about the things that are worked on. I can't watch a practice because it is too early in the morning but I think they do some modified tops conditioning in her preteam classes but I am just guessing. It would be nice to know just so I can understand why they do some of the things they do in her class. My dd had a lot of issues when she was younger that the gymnastics conditioning has really helped her with so I agree the conditioning is very beneficial.

I too am a big believer in TOPS and/or conditioning/flexibility training. It helps the gymnast progress quicker and safer. That's just a great combination. At dd's gym HC encourages all team members to participate in a general TOPS conditioning class every sat. morning. Many girls attend, some don't. They then hand pick a testing team from those girls and train them additional hours for the test. They are usually fast tracked depending on many other factors.

In the saturday tops class there is a very young 5 year old. She can't quite keep up with all the conditioning but she sure tries. Some of the older girls (my dd who thinks she is WAAAY older than her) helps her with some of the skills. I just think it's great to see her so small training for tops. She has plenty of time before she tests so she can just train with no pressure.

My dd is on the testing team. She will be 7 years old in April. She loves loves her TOPS class. It's a small group and the coaches really push them. I have seen many girls start the TOPS class and have seen huge improvements. The Owners, HC, etc. all say Olivia's main focus needs to be TOPS and not so much compulsory. As long as her skills are progressing, we should not focus on compulsory scores. She will peak when she's ready(hopefully in optionals). Of course dd can't quite understand that and wants medals in every event at every meet no matter the level.

 

[MdGymMom01]

here is a link to the actual requirements of the TOPS testing. In our one hour class, the gymnasts do a set number of crunches, sprints, leg lifts, press handstands, and climb the rope (my DD can climb the rope with legs, but they are supposed to do it while holding their legs to the outside of the rope held at horizontal or above)

It is a long way to our gym, so if she isn't going to be serious I am making her condition at home (unfortunately, that means she can't do a lot of the exercises) since she couldn't do the press handstands to begin with, they told her to hold a "frog" position (remember back when we were kids learning to do a head stand and you put your knees on your elbows? Like that, only with her head off the ground) and hold it for as long as possible. Since she can go all the way to 30 seconds in that position now, she is trying to press up from there. She hasn't always struggled like this, but she had a growth spurt, and now it's harder.

Snowbound

This concerns me as well. This can sometimes be the fastest way to burnout and overuse injuries...

 

[snowbound]

Snowbound... I was just wondering how old is your DD? My concern is that focusing on this issue too much at home may take away her joy in going to the gym. I also agree w/Momlisa... Conditioning definitely makes for stronger gymnasts, and I wish that every gym would incorporate some form of the training, modified of course, due to time constraints!! But I am really concerned about making her get "serious" in order to continue with it. Yes, it's an expensive sport, but as many of us has discovered here on CB through our own experiences, or those of other teammates, that if we get too overinvolved in this, it really does kill the sport for our kids!

Of course it's a different situation entirely if SHE is the one wanting the extra conditioning at home!!!

She will be 10 in April. Unfortunately there is no way we can continue this if she isn't "serious" She has told us she wants to go to the Olympics, or at the very least get a college scholarship. We simply do not have the funds to send her to gymnastics AND college (we have two other kids as well) besides that she is on track to graduate at 16, and since she is only level 5, there is no way she will make scholarship level if she doesn't "kick it up a notch". Our gym does have an IGC league, and we told her if she isn't scoring 9's by sectionals this year she will have to go to IGC or quit.

I know that sounds a little harsh, but she is a tough and practical kid. She doesn't give in to drama, and she sets her own goals. Unfortunately her goals this year were to get some of her big skills, and she did, but she lost a lot of style/finesse because she isn't strong enough to do the skills well.

Most of her team goes to the TOPS classes. Like I said, I don't expect anything to come of the TOPS testing, I simply want her to have the strength to do her skills gracefully. I hope this isn't coming off as a rant, because I don't mean it that way. I'm just trying to explain our situation.

Snowbound

 

[mariposa]

The gym should be able to keep her sufficiently conditioned to do her current level and then some skills. My daughter only goes 10 hours a week and they do plenty of conditioning, are all VERY strong and the girls still do well at meets. They shouldn't have to take an extra class to get the strength and conditioning ALL gymnasts need. It should be part of regular training as it is extremely important. TOPS classes for those that like TOPS or want to test for TOPS are great, but ALL gymnasts should get good strength training during their regular work outs.

 

[starmaker]

The gym should be able to keep her sufficiently conditioned to do her current level and then some skills. My daughter only goes 10 hours a week and they do plenty of conditioning, are all VERY strong and the girls still do well at meets. They shouldn't have to take an extra class to get the strength and conditioning ALL gymnasts need. It should be part of regular training as it is extremely important. TOPS classes for those that like TOPS or want to test for TOPS are great, but ALL gymnasts should get good strength training during their regular work outs.

Sorry for the confusion in my post but all the girls in all levels condition in their regular practice times. They even do straddle presses and such. The saturday optional TOPS class is just addtional conditioning for the girls who may wish to make testing team or to just improve quicker. It is not mandatory or neccessary just an added bonus to those who may be interested.

Our girls train 10.5 too and all do well at their current level.

 

[mariposa]

Starmaker- I was just addressing the original post.

I think having a separate TOPS day for girls that want to do that is GREAT. BUT, I also think that it shouldn't be the only time they do strength and conditioning stuff. It should be part of normal practice for all levels as it is an integral part of being able to succeed in this sport and safety as well.

 

[snowbound]

I think having a separate TOPS day for girls that want to do that is GREAT. BUT, I also think that it shouldn't be the only time they do strength and conditioning stuff. It should be part of normal practice for all levels as it is an integral part of being able to succeed in this sport and safety as well.

I agree completely. I don't think our gym does nearly enough of it (especially as it get closer to states...they are so focused on routines)

Snowbound

 

[Shelovesthebars]

In my dd's preteam classes they do a ton of conditioning. Her level 3 team class will be a completely separate class where they learn routines. In her classes they do presses with paralletes, from the floor standing on their tiptoes, and then they progress to the beam every practice. They jump over the high beams in a row several times. They climb the rope with their feet and once with their feet out in front of them with the rope between their legs. They do cast hanstand drills on the mens parallel bars. They go to the elite high bar and do tap swings into the pit. They do a lot of flexibiltiy drills. On bars they do walk the dogs in the mill circle position and the cast position with a bunch of other drills thrown in. These girls need to be level 4 to do tops at our gym but they are getting stronger every week. I don't know how much conditioning is involved in level 4 and up because my dd is 4 but if they don't condition as much, I know my daughter will miss it. She thinks it is fun.
They do also learn level 3 and 4 skills but a lot of emphasis is put on the conditioning aspect.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I definitely agree that tops type conditioning should be a part of EVERY good gym's training program! BUT.... I have also seen gyms use "TOPs training" strictly as a marketing tool to bring in more money as well!! We, as parents, have to really walk a fine line between supporting what our girls want to do and becoming overly involved, pushy parents. I know it's easy for us to sit back and say "that's NOT me", but to be perfectly honest, I know I've had a tendency to do that to my own daughter at times too....

Also, back to the original post... I really don't mean to be a wet dishrag here, BUT I think if the decision is to be made between funding a college education, and taking a chance on a college gymnastics scholarship, common sense dictates that you fund that college education!

There are so many factors with this sport that can change between 10 years and 18 years of age. The girls can suffer gymnastics-ending injuries. They can burn out due to overtraining. But more often than not, I think what happens is that girls get to a certain age around 7th/8th grade and their priorities change. Parents of the little ones whose girls are so passionate won't believe me when I say that, but it's true. All of a sudden parties, movies, the mall, friends, and horror of horrors, BOYS, suddenly become more interesting and fascinating than training for hours and hours at the gym. Just look at the drop off rates between Level 4 and Level 10.

Regarding that coveted college gymnastics scholarship, I've heard on many coaches speak to this situation on more than one occasion! And I quote: "If that is your goal, pull your child out of gymnastics and put the money you would spend on the sport into a college eduation fund and you'd have all four years of college taken care of once you get to that point!"

Unfortunately, it's just the reality of the sport!

I think the best we can do as parents, is to support our child through this sport but keep a reality check on at all times. We just take it from season to season.

The GREAT thing about this sport are more intangible things such as building a great work ethic, developing discipline and great friendships in the gym. Also, it keeps the girls busy, in great shape and out of trouble (esp. for those "dangerous" years!!!

 

[mariposa]

I agree completely. I don't think our gym does nearly enough of it (especially as it get closer to states...they are so focused on routines)

Snowbound

Maybe you should talk to them about this. You shouldn't have to pay for a separate (or even bring the child to separate) TOPS class when conditioning and strength is an integral part of the sport of gymnastics. It should be part of the normal training. And your kid shouldn't HAVE to do stuff at home. Fine if they want to, mine loves doing that stuff at home, but they shouldn't have to.

And I agree 100% with Tumblequeensmom. I have heard the same statement "If you have your kid in this sport hoping for a scholarship, quit now and start saving the money."

 

[Shelovesthebars]

I totally agree with tumblequeensmom. I currently have to teenage girls and I will tell you the pull of all the other teenage stuff is almost completely irresistable. If you are counting on a college scholarship from gymnastics, you may as well just bank your luck on lottery tickets. That's how iffy it is. No, but seriously, gymnastics should be done because you love it, not for anything else. What pressure to put on a young child, too.

 

[Tumblequeensmom]

I really didn't mean to come off sounding so preachy!!! I apologize for that. I DO want to add however, that there are far more college scholarships available for academic achievement than there are for gymnastics!!! Soooo... she should definitely focus on her classes and grades!!! She is much more likely to be rewarded for her academics than for her gymnastics!

 

[MdGymMom01]

Tumblequeensmom hit the nail on the head!!! Great posts and great insight from an experienced gym mom!!!

 

[greyhoundrescue]

Interesting stuff all around, and really good advice. Made me think of something though---If conditioning is an ESSENTIAL part of gymnastics that all gymies, especially those who are competitive, should be doing on a REGULAR basis, does having a separate TOPs program for only a select group of athletes diminish other gymies access to appropriate and necessary conditioning?

Reading up on TOPs, I got the impression (quite possibly the wrong impression, but just what I thought it said) that the goal is to select those athletes most likely to be future stars and provide them increased opportunities solely because they LOOK like they might be more successful in five, six, even ten years down the line.

In education, we call that streaming, or grouping. Putting all the high performing kids in one class, all the low performing kids in another. The efficacy of doing so is hotly debated.

So, is this a good idea? Is it working? Is it just a way to make more money? Or, even a waste of time? I'd love to hear some opinions.

 

[Panda-girl's Mom]

I agree that if your daughter wants to do Tops and extra conditioning that it is great but I disagree that telling your daughter she needs to get 9's by sectionals is just too much pressure. If your daughter is happy and improving I would just let her enjoy the meet season. I really do not think that getting 9's in level 5 is going to make a difference as far as scholarships and stuff. My daughter is the same age and same level she is doing great this year eventhough she has only gotten 9's in beam but she is happy, motived,and enjoying herself. To me that is worth the expense of the sport, I would not want her to feel pressure to do get a certain score based on her age and level for scholarship potential. I agree with the other posters that the odds are better for academic scholarships. I know so many gymnasts with the potential from daughters gym that either were injured and had to quit or just walked away that I do not think it is even worth worring about it at this point.