WAG How Confidential is a Visit to Another Gym?

[iwannacoach]

Yeah...I agree it's pretty likely her current coaches will find out.

Geez, it's even possible they knew about it before you did. Some of us just have the intuitive sense, and aren't too surprised when the imagined "switch" becomes reality.

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Get the HC of the other team to answer your questions via email......

Yeah, and use a new, separate e-mail account.

I am assuming by reading previous posts that your child's gym, by hook or by crook will find out.
I am curious why this would matter.......

Let's say you find the "right gym", but they don't have room for your dd, at leas not until some later date way down the road. What happens if, as has happened before, the present gym finds things out and simply removes your dd from their team program because they need a spot for another kid, and since your's ain't gonna be around much longer anyway.......Hey, why go the extra mile for somebody who's........

I see what you are saying, but the rebel in me just thinks that no matter what, I would pick the best fit for my girl, politics, gossip and opinions be damned!........

Now that's a refreshing attitude, because you gotta do your thing, just make sure you do it well enough to make it work for your child.

I kinda goofed up and wrote my comments inside the quotes before realizing it'd make me look like an impostor, or an idiot.

My advice is to find a person close to you that's outside the gymnastics community, and task them with the search up to the point of knowing which gym/gyms will be a good fit.....and that there's room on the team for a kid from a nearby gym, as well as the criteria for making the team. With the search narrowed down to just one or two gyms, you just may do the impossible, and get your kid accepted to the right gym before gym #1 gets in the loop.

It's a small community. We coaches all know each other, and depending on the relationship, tolerate....or befriend our professional counter parts. Asking us to "keep it confidential" requires we with hold information from a close friend, or tick of somebody who's a real pain in the sitter.....so don't ask, as it's your problem to solve.

 

[wallinbl]

Get the HC of the other team to answer your questions via email......

Yeah, and use a new, separate e-mail account./QUOTE]

No kidding. I emailed a gym a few months ago about stopping by to watch a practice, and they responded with much information about my daughter's skills, scores, etc. They knew who she was, had watched her at meets, and connected my name to her.


As to the questions about your gym finding out. Odds are, they will. We looked around recently after the season ended. The gym knows we did it (even if parents don't talk, don't forget that kids talk at school, etc). In the end, we decided to stay. The conversation with the HC was rather simple - we looked around, saw what the grass on the other side of the fence looked like, and we're happy to stay with you. I don't see it as breaking trust, harming the relationship or making them uneasy - quite the opposite. We're no longer wondering about other gyms. We've seen them, and we're choosing to stay. If anything, he should be more comfortable now.

 

[bookworm]

It's a small community. We coaches all know each other, and depending on the relationship, tolerate....or befriend our professional counter parts. Asking us to "keep it confidential" requires we with hold information from a close friend, or tick of somebody who's a real pain in the sitter.....so don't ask, as it's your problem to solve.[/QUOTE]





I'm sorry but I don't see it this way at all...by a person having to ask you to "keep it confidential" is not requiring you to with hold information because I would find it stunning that you share info on everyone who visits your gym with every other gym out there...I think keeping the information to yourself (as the coach or owner of a gym) would be the professional way to respond...

 

[Gymmommy71]

I guess I'm naive too as I really couldn't imagine any gym owner or coach I've encountered calling up the owner/coach of another and telling them "hey, such and such was at my gym today thinking about coming here, is her mom crazy, is the kid a brat?"...I also couldn't imagine any gym owner/coach saying anything negative about a gymnast or parent on such a phone call (even if there were issues). Just seems extremely unprofessional to me? Almost like submitting a resume for a job at another company and the HR department calling up your boss at your existing company and blabbing all about it (which I believe is illegal w/o your written permission). Yeah, parents and the kids may gossip about the cgm/bratty type of stuff, but they are just other customers, not gymnastics professionals...

People switch gyms for all kinds of reasons (just like people switch jobs for all kinds of reasons)...not every gym is the best fit for every gymnast, and things like priorities, coaching styles and the gymnast's abilities change over time. It's scary to think of a system where gymnasts aren't free to move if things aren't working out for them where they are, or if they wan't something different out of their gymnastics experience than their current gym can provide. I can totally see where it could be frowned upon mid season, but gosh...lots of girls go looking in my area during that time between the end of states and the start of summer...some switch, some don't. Yes, the coaches find out that they are looking, and many still stay in spite of it...and I totally don't think in they are mistreated in anyway for "looking". A gym that would treat a gymnast differently just for looking at other gyms doesn't sound like a place I would want my DD at anyways...

 

[JBS]

I guess I'm naive too as I really couldn't imagine any gym owner or coach I've encountered calling up the owner/coach of another and telling them "hey, such and such was at my gym today thinking about coming here, is her mom crazy, is the kid a brat?"

Welcome to gymnastics. While this may not happen at the lower levels all the time. This is definitely common in the upper levels. It is our responsibility...as professionals...to protect our current team and parents. When you have a good thing going...you have to make sure the new family fits in smoothly.

Imagine talking to your best friend that you have known for 30 years. Many of the club owners and coaches in my area are friends. No matter what kids and parents come and go...the coaches and owners are still going to have a beer together from time to time.

 

[bogwoppit]

To add to this thought gym owners need to protect themselves from bad gym families too. People who do not pay bills, people who are crazy and people who are generally undesirable due to poor team spirit etc. Not all gyms are perfect, but not all gym families are either.

It is a business after all and therefore it will be run like other businesses.

I know of at least three families who have been asked to leave their gym after posting about looking at other gyms here, highlighting a gyms faults online is never going to win anyone brownie points. Members often think they are giving no clues about themselves when in fact they could be tracked down in minutes through scores and placements at meets. I often get PM's from members saying they have worked out who someone is just from a few details.

 

[AmandaLynn]

I often get PM's from members saying they have worked out who someone is just from a few details.

I actually did this fairly recently with a member that seemed to think that they were being "safe", just to see how safe they really were. It took me less than 10 minutes to go through their posts and find their child's information on a meet score site.

 

[bogwoppit]

I actually did this fairly recently with a member that seemed to think that they were being "safe", just to see how safe they really were. It took me less than 10 minutes to go through their posts and find their child's information on a meet score site.

Oh I played the "lets find the kid" game with a member a little while back. It took minutes and we knew everything, found the family blog, knew the dogs name etc etc. People should either decide to give out no details or just give it all out.

Shocking isn't it.

 

[lettrich]

Totally happened to my daughter last year. We were unhappy with current gym & went for trial on a Friday night. Multiple issues for leaving - saying she was moving up a level then having her repeat level, coach yelling too much among other things Told gym we were checking out I needed to talk things over with my husband & I would get back to them soon. Next morning - not even 13 hours later -my daughter was at practice & the owner called me and told me that they wanted to talk things out so we would stay. When gym thought they were going to lose her they said we could move up to said level, coach promised to stop yelling, etc. The new gym we were just looking at called current gym that morning out of "professional courtesy" We wound up staying at that gym (original) for another 4 months but then switched to a different gym nearby (because the yelling didnt stop & then there was name calling & comparing my daughter to another gymnast right in front of her) . I did not bring her back to 1st gym we checked out because I couldnt trust them & thought it was sneaky & underhanded. Now she is at her new gym & there is no more yelling, my daughter is doing well & no drama in the lobby

 

[suebee]

The HC at dd's gym was quoted in a newspaper article over the summer saying something like when a potential team gymnast comes to look at the gym, he always calls their current gym as a professional courtesy because he does not want to be accused of recruiting another gym's gymnast.

 

[bookworm]

The HC at dd's gym was quoted in a newspaper article over the summer saying something like when a potential team gymnast comes to look at the gym, he always calls their current gym as a professional courtesy because he does not want to be accused of recruiting another gym's gymnast.

Kind of interesting that he thinks so highly of himself...and not that a parent could have thought of going there on their own..

 

[wordsmith]

I did not bring her back to 1st gym we checked out because I couldnt trust them & thought it was sneaky & underhanded.

The flip side of this from the gym's point of view is, aren't those who they have invested in through their team program breaking trust, themselves? Doing something "sneaky & underhanded" by checking out another gym without being upfront and disclosing this to their current club?

A number of gyms have parents and athletes sign a Code of Ethics and Conduct handbook. Most of the ones I've seen include a section about athletes currently on team who tryout at another gym as grounds for immediate dismissal from the team and are no longer welcomed into the gym.

Now it's nice and all to believe the old adage, "If you love someone, set her free; and if it was meant to be, she'll fly back to you." And that if the coaches really had the best interest of the athletes at heart and had confidence in the strength of their program, they'd let you see whether or not the grass is greener in the other gyms with their blessings. However, as pointed out, they are running a business. I've witnessed the negative consequence of a dissatisfied gymnast leaving, rightly or wrongly; and all too often the family tries (and sometimes successfully) to convince other families to leave a program. That's when things can get really nasty. It harms morale and affects team cohesion. It can be devastating for a gym's program that might not have deserved the uprooting. Sometimes a change is necessary and beneficial; other times it was the wrong choice; and regrettably, no going back with bridges burned and lasting harm done.

Also as pointed out, the gymnastics community is very small and tight-knit. Everybody knows someone who knows somebody. The times where we've had gymnasts tryout at other gyms, we'd already find out about it before they ever officially leave or tryout. Sometimes the gym they try out at informs us; or we hear by word of mouth (and in this day and age of social networking, few things remain a secret; and why some handbooks also include a section addressing negative comments on social networks).

When gymnasts have been upfront with us, we've actually allowed gymnasts to try elsewhere. Most of those who have done so have actually ended up staying with our program. When our program was young and building and during a time when we only had one level 10 with up-and-coming level 9s, the level 10 gymnast still found it difficult to be "top dog" with no one at her level or better than her to really push her. We understood her needs; and although our higher optional program was building in strength and she was an asset to that, it would be too little, too late for her own personal needs. We let her go with our blessings; with the understanding that she would always be welcomed back to visit or rejoin.

Recently, we had a family who came perilously close to no longer being welcomed into our gym because we found out they were trying out at another gym. Their daughter was disgruntled because she wanted to be moved up a level and was struggling; spoke negatively about the gym in the locker rooms and bragged about how she was going to try elsewhere. Well, that family eventually came to realize how good they had it in our gym, how much their kids have grown up in it, and didn't really want to leave after all. Their decision as to whether they should stay or leave was pre-empted by our head coach who confronted them, said not to drag things out and to leave. Much communication later, in the end, they were allowed to stay.

I've worked at two prior gyms in the area. I know kids and families in several gyms. Some of them former students of my current gym. Am friends and stay in touch with many of these families. Former teammates of our current girls still often remain friends outside the gym and hang out together or communicate through social networks.

Bottomline: Nothing stays secret.

 

[Aussie_coach]

As a parent you have every right to go and check out another facility, even if it is just to see what else is out there.

if your gym is a good one they should have no problem with you doing this, they should have confidence in their program knowing they offer the best services they possibly can. I would openly invite any gymnast to go and check out another gym, knowing that the vast majority will return, realising that were happier where they were.

No coach wants an unhappy kid and parent who are sitting there every day wondering if the grass would be greener on the other side. They would much rather you go and see if it is or it isn't.

if your coach takes it out on your child, upon finding out that you visited another gym then you should run to a new gym.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Wow...there are some widely varied opinions, thoughts and experiences regarding this topic. I'm wondering if it may be a regional thing? I'd say most gyms around me have the attitude of AussieCoach when it comes to athletes trying out. And I've never heard of anywhere having parents sign a contract that you can be kicked off the team for just looking at another gym. I personally would be very adverse towards signing such a contract (it sounds Abby Lee Dance Moms-ish to me)...of course, who knows what I'd do if the gym was demonstrating uncharacteristically amazing results w/ my DDs gymnastics and I felt it offered something that no other gym could, so I shouldn't say never . Most of the things in our contracts around here are things like - you loose your meet fees paid to date and one months tuition you leave, don't be crazy in the lobby or at meets, who moves up is entirely at the coaches discretion, stuff like that...nothing like you will be kicked off the team if you even think about leaving. For the most part gyms know students are going to move around some and they are welcoming to new athletes and aren't bitter towards the ones that leave to go somewhere else. Yeah, I could imagine the departure of a star calibur L9 who had trained at the gym since she was 3 could get a little emotional, but I haven't really seen that type of situation transpire first hand.

 

[Muddlethru]

I guess there are gymnasts that switch because they are delinquent in paying their bills at the current gym and there are certainly gymnasts and families that are too problematic to have in your team. I can understand gym owners and coaches trying to weed this very small group out. But from posts above, it seems likecoaches in general could care less about the gymnasts and their loyalty is with their "friend" coaches. I value friendships myself and maybe down the line if the gymnast decides to switch a conversation with the previous coaches may be in order. But to merely "tattle tail" on a gymnast checking out a gym is ridiculous. The repercussions of this kind of action could be devastating to a gymnast. They may end up without a gym. I guess these coaches don't even think about that. It almost sounds like you will be black listed if you switch gyms. From posts above, you better be sure you have the right gym from the start because switching later on will be very difficult if not impossible.

I guess my experience is unique in that the gyms we contacted did not see the need to contact my daughter's coaches at the time of the visit. I know one of the HCs of one of the gyms told me she would have to call my daughter's current coaches. But she had the decency to let me know ahead of time. In addition, I requested she not do so until the switch was final, which she honored. This coach has a great reputation in our area. She is devoted to her team and has many friendships. I do not see why this approach is wrong and can jeopardize friendships.

 

[Galadriel]

as far as gyms go - i guess gymnasts come and go !
at the end of the day its your business and your key coaches probably stay longer than the gymnasts too!

 

[Muddlethru]

as far as gyms go - i guess gymnasts come and go !
at the end of the day its your business and your key coaches probably stay longer than the gymnasts too!

Don't know exactly what the meaning is behind the above post, but gyms are in business because of the gymnasts that pay tuition. In addition, many girls start gymnastics at 3 and stay in their gyms until they graduate from high school. That is about a 15 year stint. My daughter has been in her previous gym for a little over 4 years. And the compulsory levels have had a different coach almost every year. All I am saying is there has to be a way to maintain both the confidentiality of visits to other gyms as well as the integrity of friendships amongst coaches.

To add to my previous post, we did not end up with that gym who kept our visit confidential. We were ready to start when something happened and the start date kept on getting postponed. It dragged on for months. Though it seems she had a legitimate reason, I can't help but wonder if her being friendly with my daughter's previous coaches made her change her mind. At the evaluation, she made several comments that 10 years ago my daughter's coaches were vicious at her because a couple of their gymnasts switched gyms to her gym. I guess over the years, and seeing each other in meets, they've put that behind them because she also told me they have started to become friendly again. I also remember at the evaluation she was thinking aloud on how she was going to inform them about the switch. It might have been easier for her to keep the peace with her renewed friendship. I felt bad that the circumstances may have affected my daughter. But the bottom line, is I respected this coach because in the end, if she felt she could not take my daughter into her team, she did not feel the need to jeopardize her chances at her current gym. I don't believe that things happen for a reason. I believe we have to make things happen. I also believe, when one door closes there is always another one that opens.

 

[JBS]

I have split off the "making money on team" conversation to the following thread...

http://www.chalkbucket.com/forums/w...tics-wag/39641-making-money-team-program.html

Please stay on topic for this thread and use the new thread to discuss the logistics of making money on a team program.

 

[gymmommy123]

Sort of a shame that many gyms do not feel gymnasts should ever be allowed to leave and if they do want to, that they should be "blackballed" at new gyms. We were lucky. We were reasonably happy at our current gym, but looking for a little more competitive type atmosphere, closer to home, etc.. Tried out two new gyms a month before we knew the move ups for team would occur. Found a perfect fit. Gave a notice and a sincere thanks to our prev. gym, for all they had done for our dd. Allowed her to have a couple classes to say good-bye to her friends and coaches, and moved over at the new yr, when all the gyms were doing their new level placements. Worked for us great. The gyms we visited kept our visits confidential, there were no bad words thrown around about any of them, and everyone behaved like adults. I knew changing gyms could be nasty, but we were lucky I guess! I also feel that they way we left meant that if we run into the old coaches, hopefully they will be sweet to my dd if she runs up to say hello. Really, she knows nothing of politics, and when the kids get treated poorly, I really think that's disappointing.

 

[iwannacoach]

It's a small community. We coaches all know each other, and depending on the relationship, tolerate....or befriend our professional counter parts. Asking us to "keep it confidential" requires we with hold information from a close friend, or tick of somebody who's a real pain in the sitter.....so don't ask, as it's your problem to solve.[/QUOTE]





I'm sorry but I don't see it this way at all...by a person having to ask you to "keep it confidential" is not requiring you to with hold information because I would find it stunning that you share info on everyone who visits your gym with every other gym out there...I think keeping the information to yourself (as the coach or owner of a gym) would be the professional way to respond...

Well, I guess you'd have to "walk a mile" in my shoes to understand the dynamics. I'm not at all convinced that the atmosphere should be the way it seems with all the secrecy and scorn that seeps into a normal function of finding the right place for your child to "do her thing". My bottom line is that I can run a better program if my team kids run with me and those that don't want to can run with some one else......I just wish for all of us that we could get it right from day one when Suzie shows up to gym with her "skater skirt leotard".

Just a bit about the dynamics found in the coaching community. Many coaches are ex gymnasts who've experience little more than gymnastics, and the rest of the world is a challenge for them. That was my experience when I came out of college and started as a coach. This "norm" creates a community that, while diverse, is weighted to the younger end of the scale, and at that end of the scale you'll see stronger reactions to every thing good and bad....including a parent's "de-facto" declaration that Suzie could do better else where.

Basically it is what it is, and I still view the request for confidentiality as a way of avoiding an open and sincere conversation with coach #1. It also places the perspective coach as a likely culprit should the "news" leak out....no matter who does the leaking. So ask me to do the best I can to coach your child because that's something I can do fairly well, but do not lay the responsibility for a secret at my feet....for if you do I'll scoot it right "backatchya".