Parents How does your gym warm up vault in competition

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jenjean70

Proud Parent
My son's coaches want the boys to throw their vault the very first time they hit the runway in competition. I have seen other gyms work progressions to get used to the apparatus and take many runs to warm up. My son is doing a kas this year and he can't get his body to do the entire vault the first time during warm up. He isn't the only one but it's the kids who work out after school (12+ fewer hours) and don't vault every day who also struggle with trying to flip their vaults the first time. The coaches only let them warm up twice then it's competition time. I am wondering if this is a typical way to warm up vault for most gyms.
 
No. Our gym will usually do a run down the runway and use the springboard to jump up on the vault and then flip off in the way their vault goes. Then a timer over the vault that is the way they enter the vault table. Then they run their vault. In my non-coach opinion, and in my son's opinion, they should not throw their vault cold, especially high level vaults.

now, our coach will not have a kiddo competing a vault that is not 90% or so in practice. If they are likely to fall on the vault, they are doing an easier vault while working the harder vault. DS is working a kas full but competing a kas and fhs ft, because the full is only about 20% consistent at this time. I think that is key. Our boys warm up their competition or base vault and hit it 3 times in a row, then work the next vault up. That way, in a competition, their vault can be done without a ton of warm up or practice at a meet.
 
No. Our gym will usually do a run down the runway and use the springboard to jump up on the vault and then flip off in the way their vault goes. Then a timer over the vault that is the way they enter the vault table. Then they run their vault. In my non-coach opinion, and in my son's opinion, they should not throw their vault cold, especially high level vaults.

now, our coach will not have a kiddo competing a vault that is not 90% or so in practice. If they are likely to fall on the vault, they are doing an easier vault while working the harder vault. DS is working a kas full but competing a kas and fhs ft, because the full is only about 20% consistent at this time. I think that is key. Our boys warm up their competition or base vault and hit it 3 times in a row, then work the next vault up. That way, in a competition, their vault can be done without a ton of warm up or practice at a meet.
I agree. I don't understand it. I think it's asking for injury and promoting a potential fear block. I don't really know what to do about it...
 
well, it seems like your coaches do like to push to the limit of consistency. It seems that they choose difficulty over clean/consistent as a philosophy. That is going to be a tough philosophy to push against . But I think you do have some legitimate concerns for injury/fear blocks. Especially since, iirc, your son has dealt with fear and blocks in the past.
 
well, it seems like your coaches do like to push to the limit of consistency. It seems that they choose difficulty over clean/consistent as a philosophy. That is going to be a tough philosophy to push against . But I think you do have some legitimate concerns for injury/fear blocks. Especially since, iirc, your son has dealt with fear and blocks in the past.
I know. I am going to have a talk with the coach. I want to understand their philosophy.
 
JenJean, my kids' gym has had national medalists on vault on both the boys' and girls' sides, and neither vault coach would ever dream of having a kid, whether a first-year L4 or a multi-year L10, vault at a meet without a warmup run or at least a timer for higher level vaults. If you go to a college meet or an elite meet, you will see those guys doing timers before they vault. To be 100% clear, I am just an observant parent. But based on my observations, I see only one advantage to what you describe above: it is so far away from the industry standard that the gym would be advised by any competent attorney to settle any personal injury lawsuit without kicking up much of a fuss or wasting time.

You have a talented guy there with a lot of terrific skills he's developing. If he stays healthy and doesn't develop blocks, he could go far. There is absolutely NO reason for him to be competing a questionable Kas at L8. None. Nada. Zilch.
 
JenJean, my kids' gym has had national medalists on vault on both the boys' and girls' sides, and neither vault coach would ever dream of having a kid, whether a first-year L4 or a multi-year L10, vault at a meet without a warmup run or at least a timer for higher level vaults. If you go to a college meet or an elite meet, you will see those guys doing timers before they vault. To be 100% clear, I am just an observant parent. But based on my observations, I see only one advantage to what you describe above: it is so far away from the industry standard that the gym would be advised by any competent attorney to settle any personal injury lawsuit without kicking up much of a fuss or wasting time.

You have a talented guy there with a lot of terrific skills he's developing. If he stays healthy and doesn't develop blocks, he could go far. There is absolutely NO reason for him to be competing a questionable Kas at L8. None. Nada. Zilch.
Thanks. I thought the same thing esp. when they got mad at the kiddos who didn't throw their vaults the first time. I've seen enough competitions and videos to see that other gyms don't require that of their gymnasts. I need to schedule a sit down with the coaches because I am concerned. I can't move gyms because this is his "family" and I don't know what that would do to him.....Ugh!
 
I remember thinking our team's vault warmups were very light compared to other gyms, but I also do not always pay that much attention.

I asked my kids, and Level 8 son is doing a tsuk tuck this season (last season he did a front hand spring half, he had an injury plagued season and did not have a competition-ready tsuk.) He says for warmup in competition, he does two timers then the complete vault once or rarely twice during vault warmup in competition. With a previous coach they sometimes did more runs (gazelles? deer strides?) to warm up.

Son says that in his experience, usually there is not time for more than 3 runs total each kid in warmup. So, for someone doing a kas, he suggests warmup in this order: Timer, Tsuk, Kas. At least that is what his Level 9 friend is doing to warmup.
 
I would love to hear the coaches' points of view on this. It's in the parent forum so likely less coaches here. To me, this is asking for trouble, as in injuries. I have seen coaches do this at the lower levels on all the events (girls), but never in the upper levels.
 
I remember thinking our team's vault warmups were very light compared to other gyms, but I also do not always pay that much attention.

I asked my kids, and Level 8 son is doing a tsuk tuck this season (last season he did a front hand spring half, he had an injury plagued season and did not have a competition-ready tsuk.) He says for warmup in competition, he does two timers then the complete vault once or rarely twice during vault warmup in competition. With a previous coach they sometimes did more runs (gazelles? deer strides?) to warm up.

Son says that in his experience, usually there is not time for more than 3 runs total each kid in warmup. So, for someone doing a kas, he suggests warmup in this order: Timer, Tsuk, Kas. At least that is what his Level 9 friend is doing to warmup.

My son has never done a tsuk on the actual vault table. They started teaching him a kas last year so that's all he has ever practiced. I wish that they would do some practice runs and a timer too.....
 
I would love to hear the coaches' points of view on this. It's in the parent forum so likely less coaches here. To me, this is asking for trouble, as in injuries. I have seen coaches do this at the lower levels on all the events (girls), but never in the upper levels.

I talked to the coach last night and he said that they practice it and if they don't go for it the first time they get 3 rope climbs so it is up to them to go for it or not. He said that when DS doesn't go for it he just goes over and climbs the rope and they don't make a big deal about it. I guess they do it this way because they said that they don't have much time to warm up in actual competition.
 
I talked to the coach last night and he said that they practice it and if they don't go for it the first time they get 3 rope climbs so it is up to them to go for it or not. He said that when DS doesn't go for it he just goes over and climbs the rope and they don't make a big deal about it. I guess they do it this way because they said that they don't have much time to warm up in actual competition.

YOu have enough time to do timers. Really. You do. My son has been competing for 10 years and has NEVER been asked to throw a vault without a warm up. Not in practice, not in a meet. That is very abnormal. There is time to warm up first.
 
YOu have enough time to do timers. Really. You do. My son has been competing for 10 years and has NEVER been asked to throw a vault without a warm up. Not in practice, not in a meet. That is very abnormal. There is time to warm up first.
I would think so but our gym's philosophy is you have to be able to throw any routine cold just in case you didn't get to warm up everything or to your satisfaction. My son likes to go through progressions on floor before he throws his actual skill but they prefer that he just throws it. He warmed up his double back on floor at the mock meet by doing a really high tuck then he went for his double back. The coaches were happy that he didn't ask for a spot and just went for it. I don't know if they saw his high back tuck "warm-up" and if they would have been OK with it or if that was something they didn't want him to do. I'm just glad his routines have skills that he has been competing or working on for at least a year so he feels pretty comfortable with them. I saw about 30 minutes of practice last night (high bar) and he looks confident and his routines looked good. I'm crossing my fingers for a good season.
 
I would think so but our gym's philosophy is you have to be able to throw any routine cold just in case you didn't get to warm up everything or to your satisfaction. My son likes to go through progressions on floor before he throws his actual skill but they prefer that he just throws it. He warmed up his double back on floor at the mock meet by doing a really high tuck then he went for his double back. The coaches were happy that he didn't ask for a spot and just went for it. I don't know if they saw his high back tuck "warm-up" and if they would have been OK with it or if that was something they didn't want him to do. I'm just glad his routines have skills that he has been competing or working on for at least a year so he feels pretty comfortable with them. I saw about 30 minutes of practice last night (high bar) and he looks confident and his routines looked good. I'm crossing my fingers for a good season.

Yeah...not safe at the upper levels. That might work in compulsaries but they need to warm up the skills. Warm ups are sooo important. Why have them if they aren't? Not warming things up is a great way to pull a muscle, tear something, blow out a knee. I am surprised that coaches say this.

Now, too much warm up is a bad thing. But throwing a double back cold at his age is not a good idea. or a double full. I would love to see waht some other coaches think about this. But even in practice when our kids have to do 1 on 6 before a meet, they are required to warm up first.
 
I talked to the coach last night and he said that they practice it and if they don't go for it the first time they get 3 rope climbs so it is up to them to go for it or not. He said that when DS doesn't go for it he just goes over and climbs the rope and they don't make a big deal about it. I guess they do it this way because they said that they don't have much time to warm up in actual competition.
Even the elite guys do timers or simpler vaults.
 
I asked my ds tonight and he said vault was one he felt was one of the most important to warm up...
I talked to the coach but I don't feel like I can change their "philosophy". I am going to pay close attention to how the other teams warm up vault at the next competition. I think because one of our level 9, 13 yo, JE guys won vault at nationals and he will throw a layed out kas full without a warm up that everyone should do it. He's been our gym's first level 6, 7, 8 and 9 level gymnast and he's made regional team camp the past 3 or 4 years. He is the coaches "guinea pig" since he is the first kid they've coached in these levels. I know that as they get more experience their philosophy will probably change and years from now they will have a winning formula but for now they are getting their experience from our kiddos. I just have to pray and have faith that everything will go smoothly and that if a coach from another gym sees something sketchy he will talk to them. The positive thing is that they are new enough to be open to suggestions from coaches from other gyms. They will seek out advice from other coaches also. I know that if my DS doesn't feel comfortable and confident enough to throw the vault the first time in warm up he can't. His brain won't let him. We shall see how it goes next weekend. I think I will film his warm ups to see how it goes. My intuition has been confirmed but I don't know if there's anything to be done about it.
 
Have you seen him throw a laid out kas full cold? Personally, on unfamiliar equipment?

At nationals, they had warm ups FOREVER.

I hope it works for your ds too. your intuition is on, and it is something to pay attention to. Making sure the pressure of this isnt too much, and that he is competing safely.

Good luck next weekend!
 

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