WAG How is your gym's practice structured at low compulsory level?

[mouey77]

I have a question about what your gym's practices are like. This our first year doing team. Our gym places all 6 yr olds regardless of ability on level 1 to start competing, and they only move up one level each year depending on state score at the end of meet season. When I asked about this, I was told not to compare what our state does to other states' gyms because it varies with region/state.

So, my question(s): DD would need a mill circle for example to do level 3 next year. I have never ever seen this skill practiced in the 8 hrs of practice they do each week. I get it that they are just doing routines over and over before our first meet, but this should change once the meets start, right? Or not?

Here is a description of how practice is structured: warm up with splits, get in line and work on level 1 floor elements, go to bars and do level 1 routine over and over, move to vault and same, move to beam and same, do level 1 floor routine, and last 10 min are conditioning (some sit ups, push ups, end with splits).

So, their practices consist of practicing the routines repeatedly start to finish. If there is an element of the routine that is weak, they may have them repeat that element (like a back hip circle for example). Another thing, DD needs handstand help. Her back is arched, and she can't hold them very long at all. I do not ever see them practice holding handstands--just the two second handstand at the beginning of the floor routine. Would it be helpful to do handstand drills at practice? What should we be looking for at their practices? Thanks!

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

Take my reply with a grain of salt, as gyms in Ontario don't compete compulsories like you do in the States (ie. beyond invitationals, they start competing at L5).

But, our kids in the provincial stream spend say 25% of their time conditioning, then split the rest of their time between routines and new skills. Ages 7 and up, or kids older than 9 in the invitational stream (L1-L4) compete largely in the spring, but the same approximate split..... with maybe a slight edge to the routines. Six year olds don't compete here.

DD would go bonkers if she spent her entire gym week on routines.

 

[Deleted member 15064]

Eek. I don't like the strict one lvl per yr advancement, you've mentioned before. That alone would be problematic now that I see what motivates DD. (a combination of medals & skill acquisition).

As for practice structure - right now heading into competition season our gym probably spends 70% current routines and 30% up training. (Not including warm ups or conditioning)

That fluctuates depending on time of year. But it's obvious that they always have an eye on advancing skills in training and they don't endlessly beat on current routines.

One thing, though, to think about is the number of hours your DD's lvl is training. 8 hours a week may not allow for much more than routine perfecting.

Does the gym allow for additional days a week to work on new skills? I know you are committed to this competition season @ this gym. Hang in there!

 

[IreneKa]

My DD is level 2, and yes, it's frustrating how they mostly working on their current level's routines with very little uptraining. We joined this gym in May, and what happens basically, they work on new skills May through August, then at the end of August they evaluated and divided the girls into levels, and started working on their level's skills only. So, DD was working on mill circle, FHC, robhs, etc, all through the summer. Then in August, because she was still missing a couple of skills, she was placed in L2. Since then I almost never see her practice FHC or shout through, or any other L3 skills. Their practice structure is similar to yours: warm ups (30 mins), working L2 routines on all 4 events (30 min each), conditioning the last 30 min. Sometime during conditioning they would let them do something fun, like robhs on the tumbling track, but that's about it.
I was concern about it too, and talked to the coach just this past weekend. He said that they will start working on the new skills after the first meet, which is coming up in less then 2 weeks. So, just as you, I hope things will change after the first meet or two is out of the way.

 

[SurpriseGymMom]

Our gym starts competing at new L3. They have only had a L4 for a few years, they used to just feed the TOPs kids straight in to L5.
My dd was drafted from TOPs to old L4. (Which then became new L3). Now she is in our L4/5 combo which works out together but they get separated depending on skills. They practice 15 or 16 hrs/wk spread out over 4 days. They tend to focus on different skills but an averag practice goes like this:
30 min warmup with splits and handstand walks
45 min-hr bars
45min-hr beam
45 min-hr floor or vault
On the longer days they add conditioning
They don't do all events every practice, usually 3. Now, with about 2 mo until comp season, they are spending a fair amount of time on the routines but not exclusively. On bars they are still working on some of the elements needed. On beam they all know their routines and have to practice them before moving on to whatever skill they're individually working on, ranging from BWO to BHS BHS. Dd is in L4 , has her BWO on beam and is working on her BHS, for instance.
Om floor, they're mainly working on their routine to fine tune the dance elements, they do some tumbling passes but more routine than up training tumbling right now.
I expect the weeks right before season will be really heavy on routine practice, but for now it's a good balance.

Our gym constantly up trains the girls a bit. The 4s are working on L5 beam skills, the 5s are working on optional level skills like giants on bars etc. the girls get moved up according to actual ability, mostly they stay in one level per year but I know girls who have moved a level during compe season. The girls start competing in whatever level is appropriate for them when they enter team, for most this is L3 but quite a few of the TOPs girls still go right into 4 or 5. Dd never competed 3 she is going straight to compete 4.

 

[mouey77]

Eek. I don't like the strict one lvl per yr advancement, you've mentioned before. That alone would be problematic now that I see what motivates DD. (a combination of medals & skill acquisition).

As for practice structure - right now heading into competition season our gym probably spends 70% current routines and 30% up training. (Not including warm ups or conditioning)

That fluctuates depending on time of year. But it's obvious that they always have an eye on advancing skills in training and they don't endlessly beat on current routines.

One thing, though, to think about is the number of hours your DD's lvl is training. 8 hours a week may not allow for much more than routine perfecting.

Does the gym allow for additional days a week to work on new skills? I know you are committed to this competition season @ this gym. Hang in there!

Thanks! Yes, patience is not my forte. LOL! She could do privates with her coach, but I'm afraid coach would just do more with the current level 1 routine. I do not ever want her going elite. I don't even expect that she's going to win at these level 1 meets. But I do want her to stick with gymnastics. She was begging yesterday to do private tumbling at the cheer gym bc they do "harder stuff" that she is capable of doing. I told her she does not have to do gymnastics and can switch to cheer after this year, but she always says she doesn't want to do cheer bc she loves bars and beam too. She was so excited at open gym when her coach spotted her on some harder bars skills about a month ago. That almost never happens though. Gahhhh!!! I can see what she needs to work on (handstands, strength, tightness), but I am not about to say a word to DD. That's what I thought we were paying the gym to do!! Trying so hard to bite my tongue and not say anything!

 

[mouey77]

They tend to focus on different skills but an averag practice goes like this:
30 min warmup with splits and handstand walks
45 min-hr bars
45min-hr beam
45 min-hr floor or vault
On the longer days they add conditioning
They don't do all events every practice, usually 3. Now, with about 2 mo until comp season, they are spending a fair amount of time on the routines but not exclusively. On bars they are still working on some of the elements needed. On beam they all know their routines and have to practice them before moving on to whatever skill they're individually working on, ranging from BWO to BHS BHS. Dd is in L4 , has her BWO on beam and is working on her BHS, for instance.
Om floor, they're mainly working on their routine to fine tune the dance elements, they do some tumbling passes but more routine than up training tumbling right now.
I expect the weeks right before season will be really heavy on routine practice, but for now it's a good balance.

This sounds like what we are looking for.

 

[gracyomalley]

Our girls start competing as new L4 once ready, move to team when ready to work on those skills consistantly, usually spending about a year (varies from /months to 2+ years) on team (working 8-12 hours/week) before competing, then generally move a level a year (but varies kid to kid) until optionals, most kids repeat an optional level or 2 along the way, rarely girls go "three" years level 4 (was 5) because of the early move up, or 3 years at level 7....uptraining from April to September consistantly then when "numbers" of current routines are in uptraining even in comp. season. Higher level compulsory girls work optional skill drills, and at present all optionals work together so more uptraining naturally occurs (these kids do 16-22 hours per week) (small team, only10-15 optionals at any one time (levels 7-10; not doing new 6...)

 

[gymmiemom]

Our gym uptrains year round, even during competition season. They are placed in a level where they have all the skills so there is no worrying about needing something before a meet. For example my DD who is 7 years old, has all of her L4 skills except the kip and some higher level ones like BWO of beam very consistently and back tuck on floor. But since the kip is missing she will compete L3 until that comes and if it comes before mid season (January) she will move up to L4.

Each practice they warm up, work at least 3 events, spend time uptraining, doing drills and conditioning. They are spending more time on routines right now because our first meet is in 4 weeks. After the first two meets is over less time will be spent on routines, just enough to keep fine tuning them so that they are at their best by state and more time will be spent uptraining. My DD loves to practice the bigger skills so her coach rewards her with them. 10 good beam routines = getting to practice BHS on beam lol. Level 3 practices 4 days a week, 3 hours each day.

Our gym only competes L2s at our home meet (they are techincally our preteam) and then L3 is when team begins.

 

[mouey77]

My DD loves to practice the bigger skills so her coach rewards her with them. 10 good beam routines = getting to practice BHS on beam lol.

Our gym only competes L2s at our home meet (they are techincally our preteam) and then L3 is when team begins.

I really like that idea of rewarding them by letting them practice the bigger skills. I am not averse at all to her repeating levels when she gets higher if she is lacking skills, but for these low levels. Geeez.

Is it true that different states handle which levels compete differently, so for example, I can't compare what our gym does to what the gyms in Texas do?

 

[iwannacoach]

I'd hope that the kids have their L1 skills and routine looking really, really, really good in a time frame well short of a year. I can see a benefit to some kids who remain through a competition, but can't agree that every child needs to compete at L1 in order to move to L2. I realize that some kids will learn more slowly than others, and that 6 year olds are challenged by abstract concepts like pointing your toes when they believe themselves to be doing just fine as they are....

and who says they're not pointed, because they feel fine to me and besides I can't waste time with nit picking if I want to make it to the olympics by the time I'm 7 years old!

So I'll grant the coaches have to work harder to teach L1 skills to young gymnasts, but an an entire year seems too long by a considerable margin. Maybe there's more to it than that. They may be adding kids to the group through the year that need to concentrate on the L1 skills, and just lump them together during this, their initial year, to preserve their own sanity.... and then the group advances with a common base of fundamentals. Maybe then the training will part from drill and kill each and every day.

 

[iwannacoach]

Is it true that different states handle which levels compete differently, so for example, I can't compare what our gym does to what the gyms in Texas do?

There are no rules within USAG's structure that require anything until the kids get up to a much higher level. Individual states could organize as a group and agree, as a state, to move kids up this way, but there's nothing I'm aware of that would allow a state to enforce that policy.

 

[gymmomtoo]

I'm not sure what you mean, but in my state we don't have competitions for levels 1 & 2--lowest level of competition is level 3 (now--used to be level 4) at meets here.

And I have friends around the country, but don't know of any state that requires clubs to keep their gymnasts in a level an entire year.

 

[JoyAvenueMom]

Outside of a couple of "in-house" meets, our current gym starts competing at L3. L3-L4 are spending a lot of time on routines and elements in the routines right now, getting ready for meets beginning in November. Once we get a few meets out of the way, coach says we will spend more time on other things.

Old gym didn't have a special "pre-team" class, if you wanted to compete old L1-L4, you had team practice on Sat. That was the only time they worked on routines. Otherwise, you progressed through the "rec levels" naturally, and could move at any time. For example Kipper "competed" L2 for a whole season, but "moved up" levels in her weekly classes twice that year.

 

[mouey77]

I'd hope that the kids have their L1 skills and routine looking really, really, really good in a time frame well short of a year. I can see a benefit to some kids who remain through a competition, but can't agree that every child needs to compete at L1 in order to move to L2. I realize that some kids will learn more slowly than others, and that 6 year olds are challenged by abstract concepts like pointing your toes when they believe themselves to be doing just fine as they are....


So I'll grant the coaches have to work harder to teach L1 skills to young gymnasts, but an an entire year seems too long by a considerable margin. Maybe there's more to it than that. They may be adding kids to the group through the year that need to concentrate on the L1 skills, and just lump them together during this, their initial year, to preserve their own sanity.... and then the group advances with a common base of fundamentals. Maybe then the training will part from drill and kill each and every day.

They are not adding kids. Which is why we had to wait 6 mos for DD to do the formal tryout in the spring.

I don't understand what I'm asking about the state thing either, other than to say that one of the coaches told me that every state is different and I can't go by what other states are doing (when I mentioned that many gyms don't even start competing til level 3). She also mentioned that other gyms will place kids in one level when they should actually be in a much lower level?? She then said not to be concerned with the level numbers. Apparently the gym owner has a set of requirements that the child must do before she gets moved up and it is dependent on a score they have to receive to qualify for the state meet. Sooo confused! And now I am going off on a complete tangent again...

 

[LizzieLac]

They are not adding kids. Which is why we had to wait 6 mos for DD to do the formal tryout in the spring.

I don't understand what I'm asking about the state thing either, other than to say that one of the coaches told me that every state is different and I can't go by what other states are doing (when I mentioned that many gyms don't even start competing til level 3). She also mentioned that other gyms will place kids in one level when they should actually be in a much lower level?? She then said not to be concerned with the level numbers. Apparently the gym owner has a set of requirements that the child must do before she gets moved up and it is dependent on a score they have to receive to qualify for the state meet. Sooo confused! And now I am going off on a complete tangent again...

I think what you're talking about is more the gym's philosophy of training and moving up than how the state structures competition. I can tell you that my state really doesn't compete the lower levels. We always started at 4 (now 3) and that is how most gyms were set up. We have a "pre-team" below 3, which train the level 1-2 skills but they only do 1-2 "in house showcase meets."

Our gym has changed its training approach at times, from what I understand. There was a period of training lots of routines and not much uptraining during the season. Uptraining was done during the summer. The last few years have been different and better, IMO. Uptraining the skills of the next two levels regularly in most practices.

For instance, for beam, they will need to complete 5 full routines without mistakes before they can move on to uptraining. But they also do occasional straight beam work - walking in releve and holding handstands (sometimes as little competitions).

On bars, we have 2 pit bars and two sets of uneven bars. On one set of bars, they do the routine. On the other, they work cast to handstand or other drill type work. Pit bars are for working more cast handstands, giants, and dismounts. Very often their bar conditioning is also worked into the bar routine, rather than done as a separate segment of pratice.

Personally, I have seen this appproach to training be the most beneficial to my DD and most on her team.

 

[MeetDirector]

I wouldn't say its as much a state thing as it is a gym thing as to which levels are competed. If there are enough clubs in a given state to have meets at a given level then so be it. But, which particular level a club starts competing at is up to the club. My guess would be in your situation that the club owner has felt pressure in the past from parents to "get the girls competing sooner" rather than take the sensible, measured approach of a solid pre-team/training team method and start competing at new Lvl 3. I have said it before and I will say it again, there is very little benefit from competing those early levels; if there was a lot of value, USAG would make them mandatory. As it is, they don't; the first required competitive level is new Lvl 4. The biggest benefactors of these early levels competing are the clubs themselves since it results in more training hours and more tuition.

 

[mouey77]

I think what you're talking about is more the gym's philosophy of training and moving up than how the state structures competition. I can tell you that my state really doesn't compete the lower levels. We always started at 4 (now 3) and that is how most gyms were set up. We have a "pre-team" below 3, which train the level 1-2 skills but they only do 1-2 "in house showcase meets."

Our gym has changed its training approach at times, from what I understand. There was a period of training lots of routines and not much uptraining during the season. Uptraining was done during the summer. The last few years have been different and better, IMO. Uptraining the skills of the next two levels regularly in most practices.

For instance, for beam, they will need to complete 5 full routines without mistakes before they can move on to uptraining. But they also do occasional straight beam work - walking in releve and holding handstands (sometimes as little competitions).

On bars, we have 2 pit bars and two sets of uneven bars. On one set of bars, they do the routine. On the other, they work cast to handstand or other drill type work. Pit bars are for working more cast handstands, giants, and dismounts. Very often their bar conditioning is also worked into the bar routine, rather than done as a separate segment of pratice.

Personally, I have seen this appproach to training be the most beneficial to my DD and most on her team.

I think I am just not satisfied with this gym's philosophy. She (and I) want her to at least be introduced to more stuff/ strengthening during her practices and that's just not going to happen at this gym.

As meetdirector said, it starts to feel like it's just a money making venture at these low levels. Which I guess it is.

 

[GymMom67]

Our gym doesn't really use scores as a basis for who moves up. Obviously, they have to meet the mobility score, but other than that, it is more about the skills they have acquired. For instance, my daughter is Level 3. From what I understand, the main requirement to move to Level 4 is the kip.....I have heard from parents with girls in the older levels that they won't move them up if they don't have their kip. I think they also want them to have their cartwheel on beam and ROBHSBHS on floor, but not sure if those are a "must" as much as the kip. However.....just basing what I am seeing on my DD's team, the girls who have their kip at this point (move up letters go out in December, so there's still time) are the same girls who are scoring well in the meets.

As far as the practice schedule goes....they stretch for 15 minutes, then do 30 minutes on each rotation, and finish with 15 minutes of conditioning. During meet season, they mostly work on routines, but they will do a little uptraining as well. For instance, the bars coach will tell them they have to do three good routines and then they can work on their kip, or something like that. On floor, they'll have "stations" set up around the floor that most of the girls work on, while the coach works closely with two at a time on their routine. As we are nearing the end of meet season and the meets are more important, they have kind of stopped doing that for now, and only focusing on routines.

 

[Fliptwisttumble]

I think I am just not satisfied with this gym's philosophy. She (and I) want her to at least be introduced to more stuff/ strengthening during her practices and that's just not going to happen at this gym.

As meetdirector said, it starts to feel like it's just a money making venture at these low levels. Which I guess it is.

I can honestly say that from seeing your various posts on this, I couldn't deal with the "one size fits all" philosophy, and the requirements for a year a level. I can sympathize with the situation you find yourself in. Clearly you have committed - not sure when competition/team season ends, but I would suggest you look for a gym where the philosophy is in keeping with yours, and which has a pit