Parents I am new here + question

[aspiringymnastmom]

Hi! I am so excited I found this forum! I have been reading a bunch of old posts and already learned so much!

I have a question too. My gymnast is in Level 3. She has a big team, there are 22 girls. When they started competing none of them were able to get through the bar routine. Some couldn't do shoot through, a lot couldn't do a front hip circle and almost all (with exception of 3-4) could do the mill circle. They all competed bars at every meet with scores ranging 6.0-low 8 being highest. None of them were scratched. All the parents realizing this started getting privates like crazy. I think 75% of the team was getting privates, some every week. (My daughter was too -- she was actually the weakest in her team on the bars). Also about half were spotted for ROBHS (or were told not to do the BHS) at a number of competitions. After a large number of privates, I am happy to report that my gymnast's routines are solid. (Before privates was weakest on bars, but medals on beam and vault, floor she is in the middle).

So now the whole team is advancing to L4, and I am wondering if now we will have to be getting privates in perpetuity just to get her skills? It's $$! In the 11 hours that they practice, shouldn't they be working on the skills? I think part of the problem is too many girls. They have 3 coaches. She has been having privates with bars coach (who also does floor), and recently had a private with beam coach. The beam coach gives her a laundry list of things she needs to work on, hubby took her and after the first 3 items stopped listening, because it was too much for him.

So my question is: shouldn't this coaching and corrections be happening during practice? I know my daughter isn't perfect (she is 8), but I feel that at least some progress should be made during the 11 hours she is in the gym? Or is this normal?

The team does really well at higher levels, but not so much on the lower levels. They don't hold back either, so no one repeats a level.

 

[SMH]

I also have a level 3 kiddo, with a larger team (maybe 20 kids) and they practice 7.5 hours a week. While there are some kids that take privates, most don't, and the vast majority score very well. My daughter started out fairly shaky on bars, but was scoring in the 9's by mid season, no extra help, just the normal training.

The level of privates you seem to be talking about are not normal in my (limited) experience. I'd be concerned, as a parent, about how effective their training was if the vast majority of the team needed that many private lessons to get the basics of level 3. Level 4 is a big jump skill wise, and as a parent I wouldn't want to be spending more money on privates, and I'd be really concerned about that continuing in the future.

 

[bogwoppit]

My kids rarely had privates, it sounds like the coaches are rushing them ahead when they really need to take more time. 11 hours a week is plenty to perfect skills. It sounds like the girls would all benefit from repeating L3 whilst working on L4 skills.

I am sure the coaches love all that extra income each week, but as a parent I would not be happy with a gym that made it seem like the only way to success if through regular privates.

Not normal.

Unless your daughter has all her L4 skills now, and they just need cleaning up, I would be very wary of allowing them to move her up.

 

[aspiringymnastmom]

They don't uptrain at all. All the L4 skills are gained after states.

 

[mommyof1]

Speaking from experience, I would move her to a gym that uptrains during the season, does not push them to move up if they are not prepared, and does not encourage regular private lessons.

 

[aspiringymnastmom]

So normally kids are actually able to get good scores without privates? It's not an insane idea, right?

 

[bogwoppit]

So normally kids are actually able to get good scores without privates? It's not an insane idea, right?

It is normal to not need privates weekly. It is insanity to move kids up without skills. L4 is a big step up with some big new skills, if you think you needed privates for L3 wait until the kip strikes.

DO you have other gym options?

Uptraining is something that should be happening year round. Considering with 11 hours a week of working on L3 only, they should be slaying the competitions. Sounds like weak coaching.

 

[raenndrops]

They don't uptrain at all. All the L4 skills are gained after states.

This system may work… BUT they need to make it clear that those who do not get the needed skills by a certain date will repeat L3 until they have them.
We do not do a lot of up training during the season. But now that the season is over, all of the L3s are working on L4 skills. All the L4s are working on L5+ skills (even those that we KNOW will be repeating). It was made clear at the beginning of "up training season" that just because they are training for a level does not mean that they will be competing that level. Those determinations will be made at the end of August/Beginning of September.

At our gym, girls start L3 like your team… only we only practice 7.5 hours for all levels.
Bars are usually a weak event at the beginning, but we only scratch if they don't have a pullover or are injured.
On floor, BHS is either left out, spotted, or done unspotted depending on the individual gymnast. By the end of the season, most of the girls can do them unspotted. A couple need a coach there for a mental spot, and 1 girl was still leaving it out… she is tall with really long legs and just hasn't gotten the timing down.

2 of the girls will probably be moving to Xcel Gold. The rest are training for L4, but at least 3 will be repeating L3. Only 2/10 will definitely be going to L4.

 

[aspiringymnastmom]

Yeah I am kind of terrified of the kip, and with all I read it takes months to get, so you'd think they'd at least start working on it.

Time to look for a new gym... We have another option closer to our house, and they generally dominate the meets we competed against them.

 

[amiandjim]

To be honest, it sounds like the girls were pushed to compete level 3 before they were ready. Some girls not hitting a skill is one thing, but an entire team not able to do the bar routine is a problem, as is the need for everyone to do private lessons. My DD is just moving to 3 from 2 but our gym had 22 level 3s last year, the majority of whom scored 36+ at every meet with 9 hours and no privates. I would be looking around at other gyms.

 

[SMH]

My kids gym does minimal uptraining during meet season, but they do some- they have been working kips on and off all season, and now that states is over they are working them more aggressively.

 

[meganliz77]

So normally kids are actually able to get good scores without privates? It's not an insane idea, right?

my DD has had maybe 4 privates the WHOLE time she has been in the gym. She started gym at the end of Kindergarten (5/6) and is now 9, almost 10. She just rather successfully competed Level 7 . And for context 3 of those privates occurred during a level change this winter (started season as a repeat 6, but right away was moved up to 7 after back tumbling fears subsided) so she had to get her Giants shape improved and had been overcoming fear issues on beam. But that's it.

Privates are EXTREMELY rare in our neck of the woods. I would sure think that with the amount of hours your DD is at, they should be able to do what they need to at practice to work out the kinks. Especially since the WHOLE team seemed to have struggled, is an indicator to me that something is not quite right... I would also be concerned with the zero up-training. Our gym moves girls through compulsories rather quickly but certainly not without having a skill mastered - especially concerning in your case since it sounds like the whole team is struggling with skill mastery.

 

[MILgymFAM]

There is one gym local to us where regular privates are the norm and the understood way of getting coaches to pay attention. This is not the norm, however, nor should it be. Kids *should* be able to improve and gain new skills during regular practice time.

 

[GymDad9.9]

So normally kids are actually able to get good scores without privates? It's not an insane idea, right?

Not at all

 

[Sasha]

Some questions I thought of..

How long has your daughter been doing gymnastics? How long was she on preteam before moving to L3?

What about the other girls on the team (time in gym/preteam)? Are most kids on her team about 8 like your daughter, or are there quite a few younger ones?

At what point would your daughter (if you stay at this gym) have different coaches? (Since you said the optionals seem to compete more successfully)

Do you know if the optionals at your gym largely came from elsewhere, or were many homegrown?

Have you observed the optionals also taking non-stop privates? (Many, though not most, optionals I know take weekly privates, but should not be needed at L3).

I am asking the above because it is possible your gym has a philosophy of "Just get them through compulsories and into optionals as young as possible, don't worry about scores until later." Or at the very least, "Just get them through L3 because we don't want to waste time on mill circle and shoot through and such as those skills are never needed again." If your gym has a successful optional program, then it is possible that this approach has been working for them. The downside is, of course, kids not scoring well in their early gymnastics experience in lower levels and either quitting, or feeling like you need a zillion privates just to 'keep up' (which you absolutely should not have to be doing).

So although it sounds like a zoo from first read of your experience, don't write off this gym just yet. It's possible there is a grander plan and your daughter may ultimately move into the path where she is getting the right coaching. More investigation needed. Perhaps a talk with a head coach about the philosophy and outlook for privates going forward?

 

[aspiringymnastmom]

How long has your daughter been doing gymnastics? How long was she on preteam before moving to L3?
- She has been doing gymnastics since almost 5. She was in preteam for 1 year.

What about the other girls on the team (time in gym/preteam)? Are most kids on her team about 8 like your daughter, or are there quite a few younger ones?
- Ages range 6-9 (my daughter is one of the oldest). About half the girls were in pre-team from the start of last year, the other half were pulled in from rec classes during the preteam year.

At what point would your daughter (if you stay at this gym) have different coaches? (Since you said the optionals seem to compete more successfully)
- Pretty much only at optionals. L7 coach seems great!

Do you know if the optionals at your gym largely came from elsewhere, or were many homegrown?
- From some quick research many seem homegrown.

Have you observed the optionals also taking non-stop privates? (Many, though not most, optionals I know take weekly privates, but should not be needed at L3).
- I have no idea! They are in the gym 6 days a week (4-5 hours a day), so not sure when they even could!

 

[Sasha]

How long has your daughter been doing gymnastics? How long was she on preteam before moving to L3?
- She has been doing gymnastics since almost 5. She was in preteam for 1 year.

What about the other girls on the team (time in gym/preteam)? Are most kids on her team about 8 like your daughter, or are there quite a few younger ones?
- Ages range 6-9 (my daughter is one of the oldest). About half the girls were in pre-team from the start of last year, the other half were pulled in from rec classes during the preteam year.

At what point would your daughter (if you stay at this gym) have different coaches? (Since you said the optionals seem to compete more successfully)
- Pretty much only at optionals. L7 coach seems great!

Do you know if the optionals at your gym largely came from elsewhere, or were many homegrown?
- From some quick research many seem homegrown.

Have you observed the optionals also taking non-stop privates? (Many, though not most, optionals I know take weekly privates, but should not be needed at L3).
- I have no idea! They are in the gym 6 days a week (4-5 hours a day), so not sure when they even could!

Ok, so a pretty young L3 group, and a good number pulled in from Rec. That seems consistent with a gym that is keen to get girls competing faster rather than wait for perfection, and seems to be pretty inclusive (the 'let everyone try L3' model as a toe in the water so to speak and see who becomes passionate and grows).

I wonder if you could somehow talk to the L4-5 parents to gauge their experience - if they are also doing mega privaties, and also do some score-snooping to see how reasonably-successful optionals were scoring in L3-5. Somehow your gym is getting girls to optionals despite a lack of competition readiness at L3. Maybe it is excessive privates for 3 years, which is probably not going to be the best route ($$$$), but maybe they just take a different approach and don't focus on perfecting compulsories and let girls repeat Optionals if needed instead?

Do you know if L4 and L5 readiness (competition scores are a good gauge) gets better? Perhaps your gym just doesn't focus on L3?

 

[aspiringymnastmom]

L4 scores beginning of the season are also sucky (27-32 range), towards the end of the season 31-35. 5s are a little better 32-35 end of season and 29-33 in the beginning of the season. These girls I do see doing privates a lot.

Oh and bars are consistently the lowest.

 

[amiandjim]

L4 scores beginning of the season are also sucky (27-32 range), towards the end of the season 31-35. 5s are a little better 32-35 end of season and 29-33 in the beginning of the season. These girls I do see doing privates a lot.

Oh and bars are consistently the lowest.

If you look at the optional girls scores back in level 3-5, are they also on the lower side? I guess it's hard for me to imagine girls scoring that low in 4-5 suddenly being really good at level 7. But, maybe they just don't focus on the details and try to get them to level 7 quickly? Idk it just seems strange.

 

[Amanda]

My daughter just started team this year and was quickly moved up to Level 3. I was getting a little concerned about bar skills for Level 3 as it actually seemed they were ONLY up training. I also started to hear that some of her team mates were doing privates regularly- a handful but by no means most of them. I talked to the HC who said she was just fine and that those on team should very rarely need privates if they are working hard in practice. Just in the last 2 weeks she has gotten most of her level 3 bar skills and still no private. We really can't afford them right now and I would prefer not start down that path already. If she gets stuck at some point on a particularly difficult skill of her and her HC says she needs it, I will consider it. He gained credibility with me when he said it should be rare. We are a high hours gym which probably helps.