WAG Intervene with mean girl issue?

[Texasmomof3]

In our situation, the girl told dd she didn’t take the widget and had no idea what happened to it, but then a few weeks later posted a Snapchat video from her bedroom with dd’s widget in the background. I showed a screenshot to the girl’s mom, who admitted she brought it home from our house but told the parents dd gave it to her. The mom apologized to me and offered to reimburse me the cost of the item, but then blamed my dd for being upset with her daughter. (They also never returned dd’s widget and the daughter has never acknowledged what she did or apologized to my daughter.)

They are 13 and 15, if that matters. Plenty old enough to know better and also (in my mind) old enough to manage their relationships with less parental involvement.

I don’t want her kicked off the team. Teens make poor decisions; it is part of growing up. I’d hate one bad impulse to cause her to be kicked off the team. But i have no problem with excluding her from my house. That seems a pretty reasonable consequence to me.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

coachp: Sure you do but that's the last resort isn't it?
There has to be some problem solving going on in between someone making nasty comments and throwing her off the team.

Midwestmommy: Would like to like that several times. Agreed on every aspect, but as I mentioned above, it's hard work since a lot of outside factors contribute to the behavior and envoirment inside the gym.

Yes of course , kids do dumb things and need to be educated. But if it's a runaway child (which I have had ) then they are eventually put on probation and then kicked off or quit.

 

[John]

In our situation, the girl told dd she didn’t take the widget and had no idea what happened to it, but then a few weeks later posted a Snapchat video from her bedroom with dd’s widget in the background. I showed a screenshot to the girl’s mom, who admitted she brought it home from our house but told the parents dd gave it to her. The mom apologized to me and offered to reimburse me the cost of the item, but then blamed my dd for being upset with her daughter. (They also never returned dd’s widget and the daughter has never acknowledged what she did or apologized to my daughter.)

They are 13 and 15, if that matters. Plenty old enough to know better and also (in my mind) old enough to manage their relationships with less parental involvement.

I don’t want her kicked off the team. Teens make poor decisions; it is part of growing up. I’d hate one bad impulse to cause her to be kicked off the team. But i have no problem with excluding her from my house. That seems a pretty reasonable consequence to me.

Can I play devils advocate? Obviously this child does not have good positive role models at home. You say kids make bad impulsive decisions and possibly deserve a second chance? By taking something of your DD's is it possible that is her reaching out? Forgiving her and showing/offering her your family and affection as a positive life model would benefit her more than shunning her?

I do not know how I would handle your situation but I want to believe given the opportunity I would talk to her about the event forgive her and offer her positive life events with my family. Possibly I'd shun her based on running out of chances, something to take away and think on.

 

[Deleted member 14190]

Also , the amount of drama within a team is always present. In the end it ends up in my lap. So the advice given by me is a reasult of years of getting dumped on and playing mediator.

 

[Puff]

I will also add that inviting everyone to a sleepover except this kid is not going to go well. You are creating the same problem in the team.....

What we've experienced at previous gyms and heard the same stories from friends, is less often flagrant hurtfulness but mostly this persistent exclusion. And even if it's a gym where parents aren't supposed to watch, some parents will follow the philosophy, but there will be a pack of moms in there every possible chance, building a clique, taking over the booster club, and throwing get-togethers for THEIR kids, always quite happy to leave a couple kids out because their parents aren't part of the clique. Especially for homeschool kids who are more dependent on the team for their social happiness. Sitting at home doing schoolwork and seeing the rest of their group posting pictures of sleepovers, beach trips, pool parties... is like taking a hammer to a kid's heart. And usually the moms know. They do it all with a smile, bragging about how they are great moms, building great friendships, great supporters of the team, whispering and laughing about "them." Eventually it will be war or girls will be switching gyms. And at most gyms, the coaches only magnify the problem because they get acquainted and friendly with the moms who are always in there chirping. They seldom reach out to new families or families that may already be feeling like outcasts. Families that drop off and pick up, stay strangers, until they're gone. It's these team issues that make me believe coaches should meet with parents at least once per year, even though yes of course they don't want to and don't have the time. But if parents can't watch, aren't met with, e-mails ignored, etc., what loyalty is built?

The rule we have for our daughter is you can only post pictures of yourself (occasionally!) or your ENTIRE practice group or level or team. If it's a picture of a portion of your group, it doesn't need to be shared.

 

[MILgymFAM]

There is a girl on my DDs new team that tries to bully her. She pretends she doesn’t exist, creates a wide berth around her like she’s diseased, and tries to get her excluded from team events (private events held in people’s homes). We’ve seen bullying before- far worse bullying actually- but at this gym this one girl just really does not like my DD. We are organizing a team thing.. a trip to an NCAA meet. The first person my DD invited was the mean girl. My DDs assertion is that the girl is also mean to other people, which makes them not like her, which makes her meaner.. and it’s a vicious cycle. My DD refuses to fall prey to that and continues to be nice to the girl no matter what. I’m not sure it’ll ever win the girl over, but I am sure that my DD will never regret taking the higher road. To be perfectly honest though, if a kid stole from us I would take it very seriously and would have brought it up as a problem with the HC (assuming I had proof). Things outside my home she would still be invited to, along with her parent so that they could be responsible for her behavior.

 

[duyetanh]

There is a girl on my DDs new team that tries to bully her. She pretends she doesn’t exist, creates a wide berth around her like she’s diseased, and tries to get her excluded from team events (private events held in people’s homes). We’ve seen bullying before- far worse bullying actually- but at this gym this one girl just really does not like my DD. We are organizing a team thing.. a trip to an NCAA meet. The first person my DD invited was the mean girl. My DDs assertion is that the girl is also mean to other people, which makes them not like her, which makes her meaner.. and it’s a vicious cycle. My DD refuses to fall prey to that and continues to be nice to the girl no matter what. I’m not sure it’ll ever win the girl over, but I am sure that my DD will never regret taking the higher road. To be perfectly honest though, if a kid stole from us I would take it very seriously and would have brought it up as a problem with the HC (assuming I had proof). Things outside my home she would still be invited to, along with her parent so that they could be responsible for her behavior.

This is us to the nth degree. Kill those mean girls with kindness. It not only really irritates them (ha!) It diffuses their power and the situation...and sometimes it can even give them a wakeup call. We invited one to go bowling one time. My dd also calls them out. As she is the smallest, she is always a target for someone. The great thing is there really is no long term bullying at her gym at the optional level, there are just "mean tween" moments, depending on how the hormones appear to be raging that day, lol. This said, i have told my kid it's ok if there are girls that dont like you, heck, we dont like everyone! But co-existing is key in sports and in life, so if something comes up, deal with it right away....this way it doesnt grow. And it took a lot of coaching as a parent behind the scenes for my kid to be this way, as she is a quiet mouse....but she got stepped on enough as a 6 year old to now realize how important it is to use her voice.

The stealing for me would be unacceptable, and the parent is obviously not helping their child with life lessons, because they are not holding them accountable.

 

[Midwestmommy]

I agree with all of this, coaches can do a lot to build the right environment up front and parents need to teach their kids. Most parents care about their kids growing up to be good people, some don’t and a few are just clueless.

Getting kids unplugged from social media every night is important, and all though it’s tough, assuming some good intent initially is generally a good thing to teach.

About the social media thing, I use an actual example on this board as a case in point for my daughter. Several years back, a mom posted about a party her daughter attended where a teammate made fun of another who wasn’t there on the beam. And the mom even got on the beam and participated.

There were posts with horrified responses to a parents response based on what a kid texted. I think I am friends with that mom and her daughter. The kid the mom asked them to imitate was one of the better beam workers on the team. The girls were all in her basement talking about being Gabby Douglas on the beam. She was really scared one of them would get hurt. In an effort to subdue some of the daredevils but not put the beam away entirely, she asked them to emulate “x” on their team instead. She was a good beam worker and had their same level of skills (we are talking lower level young kids here, she wanted them to do handstands and cartwheels not handsprings). She even (zero skills herself) jumped up on the beam and said watch this, and did nothing. And said you missed it, you blinked. It was a self-deprecating joke.

Most of the kids got it, but two older girls were off on their phones making grumpy “too cool for this party” faces. They texted a bit of a spin on what actually happened to get their parents to let them come home or go to a movie or something. If it is the same family, got posted about very inaccurately here, and on it went, getting exaggerated and less accurate. The moms of this two kids never even asked my friend what actually happened, even though she is a seeetheart and would give you the shirt off her back — they should have knoen that.

It’s a good example for my daughter that social media is fun for pictures, keeping in touch, logistics of planning get-together. But it is not real relationships, don’t let it impact your self esteem, don’t get all bent out of shape when you aren’t invited to everything, and by no means believe everything you read online!

 

[Midwestmommy]

This was the original inaccurate post which we think (but not sure) was about that party. Probably before being horrified, they probably should have checked in with the adults involved. Plus my friend actually disagrees about the mom who psoted’s characterization of the other gymnast who she thought was a nice beam worker!

Here what we think was the original post which was not accurate if it was the same party...


Ps the mom got rid of the bar after the party, decided it was too dangerous and more of a pain than it was worth...


I'm not sure whether to just feel angry or just sad! DD went to a birthday party on Saturday for one of her teammates. The girl is two years older and invited several girls from the gym. A few of them spent the night afterwards at the birthday girl's house (not my DD). Apparently the girl has a bar and beam downstairs, and the ones who spent the night were playing on it and the mom said she needed to be present for them to use it (makes sense).

So, the mom came up with a game....."let's pretend we are (insert girl from team's name here)". Each girl was supposed to take a turn and pretend they were this particular girl, the girl they were making fun of was an older girl who really struggles. She does whine and cry alot, but she has also gone through a tough divorce and is just an older girl who doesn't have a lot of natural ability. Can you believe a mother would come up with an idea like that???????? Who does these things!!! I actually thought the girl having a birthday was a nice girl and never would have dreamed her mom would have been like that. I am so glad DD wasn't there, but just sad that this is the example kids were getting. Each kid apparently did a trick poorly, or whined, and then everyone else laughed.

I really just wanted to share, because I'm still in shock and just disgusted over it. Thanks for letting me get that out. I have my DD in gymnastics for a lot of reasons, and I would hope it will ultimately HELP build her character in a positive way. How could a mother be so demeaning....

 

[Midwestmommy]

This was the original inaccurate post which we think (but not sure) was about that party. Probably before being horrified, they probably should have checked in with the adults involved. Plus my friend actually disagrees about the mom who psoted’s characterization of the other gymnast who she thought was a nice beam worker!

Here what we think was the original post which was not accurate if it was the same party...


Ps the mom got rid of the bar after the party, decided it was too dangerous and more of a pain than it was worth...


I'm not sure whether to just feel angry or just sad! DD went to a birthday party on Saturday for one of her teammates. The girl is two years older and invited several girls from the gym. A few of them spent the night afterwards at the birthday girl's house (not my DD). Apparently the girl has a bar and beam downstairs, and the ones who spent the night were playing on it and the mom said she needed to be present for them to use it (makes sense).

So, the mom came up with a game....."let's pretend we are (insert girl from team's name here)". Each girl was supposed to take a turn and pretend they were this particular girl, the girl they were making fun of was an older girl who really struggles. She does whine and cry alot, but she has also gone through a tough divorce and is just an older girl who doesn't have a lot of natural ability. Can you believe a mother would come up with an idea like that???????? Who does these things!!! I actually thought the girl having a birthday was a nice girl and never would have dreamed her mom would have been like that. I am so glad DD wasn't there, but just sad that this is the example kids were getting. Each kid apparently did a trick poorly, or whined, and then everyone else laughed.

I really just wanted to share, because I'm still in shock and just disgusted over it. Thanks for letting me get that out. I have my DD in gymnastics for a lot of reasons, and I would hope it will ultimately HELP build her character in a positive way. How could a mother be so demeaning....

U

 

[Midwestmommy]

The example I use in this story for my daughter...

Who were the bullies in this story?

The two “mean girls” who didn’t like the other girls and lied to their parents? Did they not like the other girls simply because they were younger?

Those parents who spread rumors about another teammate and their mom? Did they know what they were saying was untrue? Should they have talked to the mom? My daughter was on a different team level at the time, but we both heard about it, probably fourth or fifth hand story at that point with many embellishments.

The other parent, who heard a rumor and posted about it— when by her own admission it didn’t seem in character for the mom or the child? She said her child wasn’t at the party— why did she spread a rumor online without verifying it? What were HER real motives? Was she trying to bully that kid or her mom online? This mom (mom of birthday girl) says she never looked at this Chalkboard site again.

The kids who were the mean bullies in this story twisted it, got parents who weren’t there to spread rumors about it without talking to this other child who is a nice sensitive shy kid, and her mom who is one of the kindest people I met at the gym.

Mean kids or good kids making bad decisions can be incredibly sneaky.

By the way, this team splintered for various reasons and only one of them are still at that gym. This crap can be like a cancer to a gym business. Again, a little culture setting up front is a good idea, even from a business perspective.

The two “mean girls” and their two moms are still besties from what I hear. The others have all gone their separate ways.

 

[coachmolly]

If there is conflict happening inside or outside of the gym among teammates, no matter how small, I want to know as a coach. I probably won't address it directly or do anything to call attention to the fact that I know, but I will keep an eye on it. Maybe give little reminders about the fact that they are teammates and need to support and be kind to one another. I would hate to be blindsided by a kid quitting only to find out it was the result of a mean girl situation that had flown under my radar.
I have been very fortunate that my group has experienced very little in terms of mean girl stuff, but they are also still young. My oldest kids are just now getting to be 11-12, so I try to be a little more alert to the little things among them- which girls always group together? Which kids always spend time together outside of the gym? Which kids seem to get excluded? If we have a new girl or one who just seems to struggle connecting with other kids, I'll usually ask one of my older, more outgoing kids to make sure she gets included. We do a lot of partner stuff and I almost always choose partners to get them working with new teammates and getting to know one another.
But as much as I try in the gym, that's only a small part of it. And like others have said, even the good kids who are making a bad judgement call are pretty good at hiding things. So if something happens off my radar, I rely on the kids and parents to give me a heads up.

 

[merritt]

I am someone who absolutely closely monitors my teenager's social media use. (For the pre-teen age group, we did/do not allow any social media.) And frankly I wish more parents did the same. I know many parents think it is somehow an invasion of privacy but that is in my opinion not logical. How many lives have to be destroyed or seriously impacted by ill-advised social media communications before we learn that nothing on the internet or sent to someone's phone is ever really private? It is the first lesson about online communication a kid needs - that someone beside the intended recipient can and often will see what you post or text, and it could be out there forever.

I know most parents are loath to talk to other parents about problematic behavior in their kids. My policy on this is that if it is something I would want to know about if it were my kid, I should tell the parent. I would want to know if my kid was being mean to anyone on social media, so in this circumstance, I would tell the child's mother.

Because of this policy, I have twice had to tell other parents about something their kids were doing (not online, but things that concerned my child and my child told me.) In both cases the other parent was grateful I told them. I make it very clear I am not approaching these conversations with any judgment or "my kid is better than your kid" garbage. I know that the shoe could easily be on the other foot and I make that clear when I talk to another parent about their kid's behavior. In this case, you would not have to bring your daughter into the conversation at all, because you can explain you saw these messages because you monitor your kid's online communication.

For all you know, the mom already knows, and is not sure what to do. Or maybe she knows and does not think the messages are mean, but will see them in a different light after talking about it. It is possible the girl who is sending the mean texts is having trouble with these other girls, and is in reactive mode. No matter the situation, a kind and compassionate conversation with a rational parent should not hurt anything. If it does, then that is information you can use going forward.

Most importantly, this presents an excellent learning/reinforcement experience for your daughter about online manners and polite online conversation, which basically boils down to the same as in person manners and politeness, only MORE so, because the written word is so much more easily misconstrued. For example, I think we can all think of a way that a person could say "I hate her" that is actually funny, complementary and admiring, given the proper facial expression and tone of voice. These nuances are far harder to convey online.

Totally agree, especially with the part that I bolded. I once had a difficult situation with a coworker, and I pointed out that I was interpreting her emails as having a certain tone. She replied that written communication does not have a tone. This is absolutely not true - the recipient may easily infer a tone that the sender did not mean (not in the OP’s case, but in general), and it is crucial to be aware of this when composing messages.