JO Event specialists

[Livinatthegym]

I see this as being mainly attractive to high schoolers who would quit anyway and want to cut down hours because of nagging pain (not any specific injury at a specific time)

Me, too. I'd love to see something that would help keep girls in the sport. Like a lot of states, we don't have high school gymnastics. That means girls start dropping like flies about the time high school starts, and then they really are all done with the sport. Lots leave because of that nagging pain (knees for my dd1, shoulder for her best friend who left last year, ankles for a teammate, hip for one of the level 10s). Others realize hs is their last chance to try some other activities. How nice if the girls could train specialist at reduced hours and be in some other after school activities.

I'm like your attitude, Gymdog. I don't take this, or any youth sport, too seriously. Can't see where an elitist approach to an activity an athlete is likely to be out of by high school is all that productive for anybody.

 

[Billy]

I'm like your attitude, Gymdog. I don't take this, or any youth sport, too seriously.

Seems to me that if everybody thought this way, there would be no Olympic, or even collegiate, athletes.

 

[Livinatthegym]

Seems to me that if everybody thought this way, there would be no Olympic, or even collegiate, athletes.

Don't get me started on college sports (I'm in higher ed). Personally, I wouldn't have a problem with that.

 

[Billy]

Hm... I find that very sad and somewhat jaded.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Seems to me that if everybody thought this way, there would be no Olympic, or even collegiate, athletes.

I dissagree. I think in order to make it to the higher levels (and especially to stick with it long enough to do it in college), the most important thing is to enjoy the sport, and those who don't take it too seriously tend to enjoy it more, in my experience.

I'll use myself as an example. Until very recently, I've never taken the sport all that seriously. When I was comming up through the levels, I was just in it for fun, and never aspired to go elite, do it in college, or even make it to the next level in JO. I just came in, worked out, and had fun.

It seems to have worked: I'm preparing to compete next season as an elite.

Admittedly, if a girl wants to get good enough while young enough to go to the olympics, she needs to take things pretty seriously at a very young age (too young, in my opinion). But for college, you just have to have fun and stick with it.

 

[Billy]

I tend to think its possible to have fun at something while still taking it seriously. Take college, for example, in very broad, general terms. Those who are just "having fun", tend to flunk out while those who are not having any fun tend to drop out. It must be fun to some degree, but students must also take it seriously in order to be successful. If gymnasts are only in gymnastics for fun and don't anticipate any serious competitive future, why are they not just recreational gymnasts?

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I tend to think its possible to have fun at something while still taking it seriously. Take college, for example, in very broad, general terms. Those who are just "having fun", tend to flunk out while those who are not having any fun tend to drop out. It must be fun to some degree, but students must also take it seriously in order to be successful. If gymnasts are only in gymnastics for fun and don't anticipate any serious competitive future, why are they not just recreational gymnasts?

Because there are very very few gyms where recreational options exist that allow them to come in for more than an hour or two a week. If you're having enough fun to want to spend more time than that in the gym, you go the competetive route.

 

[midwestgymmom]

Just to continue GT's train of thought. Many girls have to quit gym due to injury, it may happen to mine. But if she could reduce her hours and focus on beam and bars and still get to Provincials she'd be thrilled. I am sure she is not the only child in the gym this applies to.

All gymnasts want to compete AA, but it isn't going to happen for every gymnast. Should they stop competing to make it "fair" for everyone else? My kids will probably only compete bars and beam at her next meet, she won't be winning the AA will she? But it would be nice if she could make it to Provincials, it ain't going to happen here.

The whole event specialist winning on everything has no logic either. In any given city with multiple gyms there are multiple training schedules and set ups. One level six may train 25 hours a week with many coaches who are specialists themselves on each event, they may also have privates and attend open gym or even home school at the gym. Another level 6 in the same city might train 12 hours a week in a group of 10 girls and have 1 coach who manages to coach all around. Tell me how this is any more fair than allowing girls to specialize on an event or two or even three!

Gymnastics will never be equal or fair, but it should be fun and accessible to as many kids as possible.

:goodpost: I was just thinking about this the other day. There is a girl that is a yr older than my dd who wants to start doing gymnastics she is wickedly flexible and can do tumbling. Problem she has a prostetic arm and would never be able to do bars. So it doesnt matter how good she is, she could never qualify for states because of her situation. I guess she is SOL according to some. That is sad.
I just saw this on the Region4 web site about lvl 9 and 10 event specialists http://region4championships.wordpress.com/qualifiers/

 

[lannamavity]

:goodpost: I was just thinking about this the other day. There is a girl that is a yr older than my dd who wants to start doing gymnastics she is wickedly flexible and can do tumbling. Problem she has a prostetic arm and would never be able to do bars. So it doesnt matter how good she is, she could never qualify for states because of her situation. I guess she is SOL according to some. That is sad.
I just saw this on the Region4 web site about lvl 9 and 10 event specialists http://region4championships.wordpress.com/qualifiers/

This subject has been brought up several times already...there is a provision in the USAG R&P which states that athletes with physical limitations can qualify even to the highest meets. That has nothing to do with being a specialist. Any girl with a prosthetic arm has the option to contact USAG and petition through using the average score of the events she can do. That rule has been around for a while.

No athlete is being "excluded" or "left behind". Including specialists does not help kids with physical limitations or injuries. It only helps kids who want to compete at a certain level without actually training four events for that level. It's a choice.

Collegiate gymnastics is a fantastic opportunity for kids. Gymnasts have high grade point averages (in fact, they get highly rewarded for good grades, and suffer consequences if they do not). As a college assistant coach, I had to go and check up on the girls and make sure they were in the library studying when they were supposed to be. It's not all about "fun"...it's teaching them about life-which is what sports are all about. College teammates are life long friends, and confident adults. It is also a great reward for those athletes who stick with the sport through high school. I have a hard time understanding why anyone (especially someone in the education field) could be so negative about NCAA programs.

Having alevel of "seriousness" when participating in a sport is not always about winning. How about committment, team work, good sportsmanship, responsibility, discipline? Those are serious lessons, presented through a "fun" activity.

If there isn't some level of "seriousness" to the sport, the lessons are lost. Athletes often get injured while not being "too serious". They may fail to make it to their championship meet, and be crushed...and quit anyway. Some programs are like that...recreational...which is fine, but those athletes are going to work out with the same lack of intensity whether they are competing one event or four.

So those arguments are not about specialization.

 

[lannamavity]

Hm... I find that very sad and somewhat jaded.

no kidding

 

[flippymonkeysmom]

I think the original intent of this thread got majorly skewed somewhere along the line. There is a big difference if a girl wants to specialize because of injury, and one who wants to cop out of an event that she finds too difficult. My dd is going to be tall and certain things will be tough for her - especially bars. Even though it won't be her best event she works her butt off and I can't even explain the look on her face when one meet last season she actually won 2nd place on bars at a meet (hasn't happened again, lol) Anyway - if she chose to not do bars because it was difficult, I would say that is not right. On the other hand, a girl who has chronic knee or ankle issues that might want to specialize on bars at a higher level - I would be all for it. Mind you I am not talking about compulsories or even lower optional levels. Think of collegiate gymnasts - how many are actually AA gymnasts? Not very many. So if a girl has a chance to compete in college, but an injury is preventing competing all events - I think at that point they have earned the right to have a chance to continue competing. I don't think it should be used as a cop out though - a chronic injury would be well documented over the years and wouldn't be that difficult to verify.

 

[Livinatthegym]

I have a hard time understanding why anyone (especially someone in the education field) could be so negative about NCAA programs.

Well, thanks for slam, ladies (or gentlemen, guess I shouldn't make assumptions about your gender). Jaded? Probably, but I've been asked one too many times to raise grades so somebody's athlete could remain eligible. When I said that youth sports should be about fun and not taken too seriously and that I really wouldn't see the harm in there being no big-time college sports, I guess I didn't realize "them was fightin' words".

 

[Billy]

Well, thanks for slam, ladies (or gentlemen, guess I shouldn't make assumptions about your gender). Jaded? Probably, but I've been asked one too many times to raise grades so somebody's athlete could remain eligible. When I said that youth sports should be about fun and not taken too seriously and that I really wouldn't see the harm in there being no big-time college sports, I guess I didn't realize "them was fightin' words".

Pointing out negativity isn't a "slam". Also, taking away Olympic and collegiate sports takes away kids' athletic goals and dreams and that would be sad.

 

[bogwoppit]

Well, thanks for slam, ladies (or gentlemen, guess I shouldn't make assumptions about your gender). Jaded? Probably, but I've been asked one too many times to raise grades so somebody's athlete could remain eligible. When I said that youth sports should be about fun and not taken too seriously and that I really wouldn't see the harm in there being no big-time college sports, I guess I didn't realize "them was fightin' words".

I have discovered through this thread that Lannamativity is a man. I think a little gender sign by our names wouldn't be a bad thing, as the genders do definitely express themselves differently.

This thread should now be closed. The dead horse has been well and truly flogged. Every opinion known to man and woman has been expressed in many different ways. So please........ let it die it's well deserved natural death.

Please also remember that opinions can be expressed without criticizing those of other members, try to follow the original posters theme or start a new thread to have your own personal slant if there seems to be a necessary thread hijack about to happen~!

 

[chabuc]

Pointing out negativity isn't a "slam". Also, taking away Olympic and collegiate sports takes away kids' athletic goals and dreams and that would be sad.

It was a slam. Jaded is a negative term. You can't just mention to someone that you think they're jaded anymore than you can mention that you think they're fat.

 

[Billy]

It was a slam. Jaded is a negative term. You can't just mention to someone that you think they're jaded anymore than you can mention that you think they're fat.

From Dictionary.com: "jaded- worn out or wearied, as by overwork or overuse"

I have no idea how this can be construed as a slam. Livinatthegym works in higher education and clearly has a "wearied" viewpoint of collegiate sports that always seem in competition with collegiate academics. Even more, I think his wearied viewpoint is completely warranted and understandable. But I also think it colors his opinions, just like everyone else's life experiences color theirs.

Livinatthegym, if you took this as a slam, I apologize. I did not intend it that way.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

I have discovered through this thread that Lannamativity is a man. I think a little gender sign by our names wouldn't be a bad thing, as the genders do definitely express themselves differently.

This thread should now be closed. The dead horse has been well and truly flogged. Every opinion known to man and woman has been expressed in many different ways. So please........ let it die it's well deserved natural death.

Please also remember that opinions can be expressed without criticizing those of other members, try to follow the original posters theme or start a new thread to have your own personal slant if there seems to be a necessary thread hijack about to happen~!

You know, having just read up to this point, I would have dissagreed and been inclined to leave the thread open, but if it didn't need to be locked at that point, it certainly does now after the next couple posts.

Remember, folks, we're all friends here. We're bound to dissagree on some things, but try not to let it get personal.

Topic locked.