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ldw4mlo

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If they have highly qualifying results with higher levels and have been around a long time I would trust their knowledge even if their technique isn’t seen a positive to others (given there is no abuse as we have to state this these days ) but expecting a lot from gymnasts has negatives and positives in a career. However you will find the gyms who don’t give out participation medals and only acknowledge “the top 3” as an example. Is a negative way of training these days. But is usually the old school way that brings top results. So if you find a coach expecting to get 5 out of 5 as a red flag. That is ok. Because that coach and gym has probably been around for many years and doesn’t want a bubble wrapped child to have a parent complain every three seconds that their child should just do the minimum required for that level because they only need to step up to the bar to compete and not pike on at a competition.
You have repeatedly implied that to do less then your way aka "old school" that somehow the expectations and standards are lower. And that the kids are bubble wrapped/coddled. And the parents are helicoptering and indulgent. And to do it other then "old school" wont yield top results.

You can have very high expectations and standards and not torture/brow beat a child/gymnast.

Again the 5 of 5, sure a good measure. Of course getting there, different approaches.
5 of 5, no moving on until you get it. Stay there, stare at that beam, floor, whatever until you do it.
vs not getting 5 of 5, go do x drills, or x skill on the floor beam or strap bar or tumble trak. Extra conditioning assigned. Attempt again, later next pracitce. Yeah, JMO the later is much more effective and less abusive.

And we have seen the damage done to gymnasts with that "old school" thinking. Emotionally and physically.

Many a high level gymnast have moved on from toxic environments and are and have been "top results" gymnasts.

And just because a gym/coach has been around for many years doesn't mean they they aren't abusive. Or that a newer coach/gym that has a less then authoritarian approach can't produce "top results". As Maya Angelou says....... When you know better. You do better.

To the OP and anyone else reading this. Your child should not be tortured into getting skills. Period.

JMO I'll take a happy, healthy strong well adjusted kid. Who is able to move at their own pace and who scores 35-36/37s.
Over a kid who is stressed out, hurt, and brow beaten and scores 37/38s any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

My own experience, I'm not a participation medal type parent. I don't praise just showing up. Nor do our gym/coaches. The expectation is that they work hard, put forth a solid effort. They don't worry about scores or level. They teach skills. If you do the skills well the scores will follow. As you get the skills the level will follow. They expect my kid to do 5 of 5 and are working on a plan to get her there. And no she doesn't have to stay on it and not move on until she gets it.

And thankfully there are enough gym choices out there, that an environment like your gym would not get my money or our time.
 

Cmumgym

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You have repeatedly implied that to do less then your way aka "old school" that somehow the expectations and standards are lower. And that the kids are bubble wrapped/coddled. And the parents are helicoptering and indulgent. And to do it other then "old school" wont yield top results.

You can have very high expectations and standards and not torture/brow beat a child/gymnast.

Again the 5 of 5, sure a good measure. Of course getting there, different approaches.
5 of 5, no moving on until you get it. Stay there, stare at that beam, floor, whatever until you do it.
vs not getting 5 of 5, go do x drills, or x skill on the floor beam or strap bar or tumble trak. Extra conditioning assigned. Attempt again, later next pracitce. Yeah, JMO the later is much more effective and less abusive.

And we have seen the damage done to gymnasts with that "old school" thinking. Emotionally and physically.

Many a high level gymnast have moved on from toxic environments and are and have been "top results" gymnasts.

And just because a gym/coach has been around for many years doesn't mean they they aren't abusive. Or that a newer coach/gym that has a less then authoritarian approach can't produce "top results". As Maya Angelou says....... When you know better. You do better.

To the OP and anyone else reading this. Your child should not be tortured into getting skills. Period.

JMO I'll take a happy, healthy strong well adjusted kid. Who is able to move at their own pace and who scores 35-36/37s.
Over a kid who is stressed out, hurt, and brow beaten and scores 37/38s any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

My own experience, I'm not a participation medal type parent. I don't praise just showing up. Nor do our gym/coaches. The expectation is that they work hard, put forth a solid effort. They don't worry about scores or level. They teach skills. If you do the skills well the scores will follow. As you get the skills the level will follow. They expect my kid to do 5 of 5 and are working on a plan to get her there. And no she doesn't have to stay on it and not move on until she gets it.

And thankfully there are enough gym choices out there, that an environment like your gym would not get my money or our time.
I don’t think expecting to get a certain amount of skills a gym requires is torture but I do agree each child and family are different. Some thrive in certain gyms where others don’t. And can be the case of coaching techniques. Some need more nurturing and time whereas some don’t. At the end of the day change of gyms there will always be changes to coaches expectations and the way a gym is run. I would be having meetings with the coaches to understand why they have those expectations and understand their pathway. If it’s a stricter program “not torture” then that’s just the way the gym is it’s not a red flag or negative on them. Your dd might just not be able to adjust to it. It gets to me when parents come here for advice and immediately are hit with the gym being a red flag and to suggest leaving which has happened in here a lot. Some times granted but others like this is just an adjustment to a new program and way of doing things. If you don’t like it you can leave but to the op don’t be scared off because of it. Have meetings to become more informed about your gym and their reasonings. They should have a 8-10 year plan for each gymnast and with that an answer of why their programs are the way they are. Then you can decide if it’s a type of structure your dd will thrive in or if it is too much for your individual child.
 
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ldw4mlo

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If it’s a stricter program “not torture” then that’s just the way the gym is it’s not a red flag or negative on them. Your dd might just not be able to adjust to it. It gets to me when parents come here for advice and immediately are hit with the gym being a red flag and to suggest leaving which has happened in here a lot.
Don't speculate on what my daughter can or can't adjust to. She has adjust to more challenges then any one needs to know about. You do not know her. So don't reference her as I did not ask for advice regarding what she is doing. My kid is not the subject of the OP.

Finally, everyone's idea of red flags are different. And there are many valid reasons for leaving a gym.

I stand by my opinion that

Having a child (not my child in particular) ANY child do 5 for/of 5 of something, where they must stay where they are at, with no other correction or intervention, not being allowed to move on to something else. To keep at that one thing only until 5 of 5 is met, is a red flag.

Beaten this to death now moving on.
 

Ty’s Dad

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I don’t know what the gym would do if a gymnast scored under a 35 or 36. I just know the gym has a standard and the won’t move you if you have that. Correct me if I’m wrong but if a gymnast scores under a 35 without a fall doesn’t that mean they not doing a skill right?
 

Cmumgym

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Don't speculate on what my daughter can or can't adjust to. She has adjust to more challenges then any one needs to know about. You do not know her. So don't reference her as I did not ask for advice regarding what she is doing. My kid is not the subject of the OP.

Finally, everyone's idea of red flags are different. And there are many valid reasons for leaving a gym.

I stand by my opinion that

Having a child (not my child in particular) ANY child do 5 for/of 5 of something, where they must stay where they are at, with no other correction or intervention, not being allowed to move on to something else. To keep at that one thing only until 5 of 5 is met, is a red flag.

Beaten this to death now moving on.
I’m sorry if you feel personalised in this discussion I have never said anything about you personally or your child. My whole comment was in regards to different children adapt differently in different gyms. It’s not a negative thing. Not at all and I find you victimising my statements a bit unnecessary. This is an open discussion and you have your options as do I. It’s not a personal attack I never even stated your child or your name. I was just responding to your statement about torturous gymnastics structures and do make op be aware that torture is a harsher word it’s just a difference in training techniques which may take time for a child to adapt. I’m actually surprised you thought I was victimising you. Not at all and I can’t find anywhere in my responses where I have stated a personal attack. Sorry if it offended you.
 

Cmumgym

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Don't speculate on what my daughter can or can't adjust to. She has adjust to more challenges then any one needs to know about. You do not know her. So don't reference her as I did not ask for advice regarding what she is doing. My kid is not the subject of the OP.

Finally, everyone's idea of red flags are different. And there are many valid reasons for leaving a gym.

I stand by my opinion that

Having a child (not my child in particular) ANY child do 5 for/of 5 of something, where they must stay where they are at, with no other correction or intervention, not being allowed to move on to something else. To keep at that one thing only until 5 of 5 is met, is a red flag.

Beaten this to death now moving on.
Also I’ve never actually stated that it is a good thing for a child to do what you have stated in bold. This was my response to that I had above .
“My thoughts are that if your dd is asked to compete 4 because she doesn’t have xyz does that mean the gym will cease her uptraining to learn? In my experience a good gym is no. They will compete her in level 4 however during comp season only which is about 3 months of the year. If that. The rest of the time they will use it as an opprtunnity to train the skills to improve without the pressure” having rules to do certain number of skills is just a gym technique which isn’t torture. But yes If there is no correction along the way and no uptraining if sticking back to level 4 then that is when it becomes negative.
 

ldw4mlo

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Correct me if I’m wrong but if a gymnast scores under a 35 without a fall doesn’t that mean they not doing a skill right?
Technically if they score less then 40 they didn’t do it all right. Less then 40, it’s a question of degrees "of not right".
 
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ldw4mlo

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What makes you a solid gymnast?
Its certainly more than the top 3 finishers at a meet.

It seems USAG has some ideas on that, which is why they have mobility scores. So that would be a good place to start. Along with qualifying to states.

Many regions you can qualify to regionals with a score or 34/35 AA at states. I would think if you score will enough to go to regionals that would count as solid. So if an individual gym is penalizing or holding a gymnast back or sending them to Xcel for not getting at least 36s it seems excessive.

I would say if you are not stressing qualifying for states or mobilty. You are not crossing your fingers/holding your breath that they qualify at each meet. When they are regularly and predictably score above those qualifying score they are solid gymnasts for the level they are competing at.

So that would be 33-35 at the beginning of the season, 34-36.5 by seasons end for solid.
 
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Ty’s Dad

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Its certainly more than the top 3 finishers at a meet.

It seems USAG has some ideas on that, which is why they have mobility scores. So that would be a good place to start. Along with qualifying to states.

Many regions you can qualify to regionals with a score or 34/35 AA at states. I would think if you score will enough to go to regionals that would count as solid. So if an individual gym is penalizing or holding a gymnast back or sending them to Xcel for not getting at least 36s it seems excessive.

I would say if you are not stressing qualifying for states or mobilty. You are not crossing your fingers/holding your breath that they qualify at each meet. When they are regularly and predictably score above those qualifying score they are solid gymnasts for the level they are competing at.

So that would be 33-35 at the beginning of the season, 34-36.5 by seasons end for solid.
yeah when my daughter was at her last gym we thought like that too. Different strokes for different folks, I watch what I say on here now because some people take things way to serious. But now I feel seriously everyone should make states and if you don’t (unless you’re injured) you shouldn’t be on that level
 

Ty’s Dad

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Technically if they score less then 40 they didn’t do it all right. Less then 40, it’s a question of degrees "of not right".
Exactly so that’s more of a reason why some shouldn’t be at a certain level
 

ldw4mlo

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yeah when my daughter was at her last gym we thought like that too. Different strokes for different folks, I watch what I say on here now because some people take things way to serious. But now I feel seriously everyone should make states and if you don’t (unless you’re injured) you shouldn’t be on that level
So your thinking is if a gymnast doesn't score 36 or higher, they shouldn't bother ?????
 

Ty’s Dad

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Then you get parents that complain about other gymnast getting 38s all the time that they’re sandbagging
 

ldw4mlo

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Then you get parents that complain about other gymnast getting 38s all the time that they’re sandbagging
Well if a gym won't move a gymnast without those kind of scores, one could see why some folks would feel that way.
 

Ty’s Dad

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So your thinking is if a gymnast doesn't score 36 or higher, they shouldn't bother ?????
No no I’m not saying that. I’m saying you can’t complain when you get killed at states and you can’t complain you don’t move up.
 

Ty’s Dad

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I believe gymnastics is a fun sport for everyone, and everyone has different goals in their gymnastics journey. But some kids take it VERY seriously and gets mad when they don’t score a 9.5 or higher and some are happy with a 8.8-9. Different roads for different kids
 

ldw4mlo

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I’m saying you can’t complain when you get killed at states and you can’t complain you don’t move up.
Killed at states???? By whose definition??? And who is complaining???? You seem to think anything less then a podium finish or medaling is getting "killed". Not everyone measures success the same way.

If a kid started their season at 33 and by seasons end were scoring 35s perhaps to them that is an awesome season, with or without medals.

My kid scored very high close to 36 at her Level 7 states. Didn't medal in anything because of the age group she was in. Any other age group should would of medaled. Every one of her team members medaled various and multiple events and had lower scores than her.

She didn't feel she got killed. Unfortunately she ended up in the shark age group. Oh well, any given Sunday, so to speak.

And it would of been very sad if her gym moved her to Xcel or held her back based on her "poor" high 35 performance.
 
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Ty’s Dad

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Killed at states???? By whose definition??? And who is complaining???? You seem to think anything less then a podium finish or medaling is getting "killed". Not everyone measures success the same way.

If a kid started their season at 33 and by seasons end were scoring 35s perhaps to them that is an awesome season, with or without medals.

My kid scored very high close to 36 at her Level 7 states. Didn't medal in anything because of the age group she was in. Any other age group should would of medaled. Every one of her team members medaled various and multiple events and had lower scores than her.

She didn't feel she got killed. Unfortunately she ended up in the shark age group. Oh well, any given Sunday, so to speak.

And it would of been very sad if her gym moved her to Xcel or held her back based on her "poor" high 35 performance.
What do you mean who’s complaining. Didn’t you go on a whole thread about 6 months ago saying my daughter was sandbagging thinking the heals her back. Wasn’t you the one saying she should have just skipped 7 and went straight to 8 because of her scores not knowing she just came from level 6 and only been doing gymnastics for three years.

if it was a different person then I apologize but someone on here (I think it was you) was doing a whole lot of complaining
 
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Ty’s Dad

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And like I said on the other comment. Some just do it for fun and some do it to win. Ain’t no way I’m paying all this money for to be last at every meet, I would rather (MY DAUGHTER) to go excel. My daughters gym we prob pay close to the highest of all the gyms in the country. Ain’t no way I’m doing it if 1) she wasn’t enjoying it and 2) getting to that podium
 

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