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Layout Full Dismout. Bars.

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bruns9623

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Alright, I am working on full twisting dismouts on bars. I can twist the full completely around however i land on my back. I twist after i let go of the bars so twisting too early isn't the problem. Yes i know i pull my toes but what can i do to fix that. Twist more?

Not to mention i keep smoking my coach in the face with my hands.. woops...
 

gymdog

Well-Known Member
Coach
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Former Gymnast
Jul 5, 2007
5,117
Stall more and try to keep your body tighter in "one piece". Twisting "harder" will probably make it worse. Basically in terms of physics, twisting doesn't increase rotation for an object but for most people twisting harder entails shortening the axis on one side more which increases rotation. This works to some extent, really, but too much and you're on your back. Ideally the body would be tight, the flip would be high and "stalled" out after it was initiated, and the twist would come more from the movement of the arms. You can see this really well in trampolinists doing a full or double full (single flip).

Also the arm motion and twist should come in somewhat "hollow". It's really hard for me to explain it in words, makes a lot more sense with demonstration, but I'll try. This is easier to see on floor but applies to bars to some extent. As the flip is initiated, people tend to throw back into the full with their shoulders as they pull their arms, rather than set up and pull in hollow to keep the vertical momentum. On bars the initial shoulders throwing back isn't really much of the problem because of the release usually, but I do see a lot of people who pull their arms in a way that throws their shoulders back as the flip is completed, causing them to land on their back, instead of maintain a slightly hollow position through the chest and shoulders as the arms work.

If just trying to correct technique doesn't work, it might to help to start again with layout flyaways. Release (shoulders open, toes leading up and out) and as you come around and see the floor, pull your arms down to your thighs with a hollow position. If you have a pit you can start working on this and then basically try pulling down hollow to the side you twist to initiate a twist at that time and see if it helps you stall the flip. After that you can kind of move to a "one-two" motion in the arms for a full twist.

But there are a lot of different schools of thought for teaching and doing a full twist, so maybe someone else's idea will work better for you. These methods work pretty well for me, but I have seen people learn and teach it successfully other ways.
 

PeaceLoveGymnastic

New Member
Jan 12, 2008
28
Canada
i do double twist dismount, and its even harder not to over-rotate on those, because theres even more twist. You really have to think about streching out on the release, not flipping. it will flip because of momentum, you don't need to wiggle it. Really good twists look like they stall in the air and just rip the twist. it feels really cool when you do it. One more thing: if you feel like you will land on your stomach, dont' worry!! thats ok!!! thats what it feels like when you stall it. eventually you'll get it!

Good Luck! <3
 
K

KBT

Guest
It's hard to know exactly what the problem is without seeing it, but here's one idea that might help. When you land, don't think about sticking the landing. Allow yourself to land and then take a few steps backwards - force yourself to take a few steps back. If you are getting your feet on the mat at all and then fall on your back this may help you learn to "catch" yourself. You may also benefit from forcing yourself to take a few steps forward after landing.
 

blantonnick

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Apr 17, 2007
174
USA
'Also the arm motion and twist should come in somewhat "hollow".'

Gymdog you say on one hand to decrease your angular velocity off the bar, but on the other hand, by performing a 'hollow' in a twist you are increasing your angular velocity. This 'hollowing' of the body will actually speed up rotation of the flip by making the body shorter.

I think it would be more effective to decrease angular momentum by allowing the body to stretch when performing the twist. To perform a full twist off the bar a gymnast is only required to perform 3/4 somersault and a 360 degree twist to land, every effort should be made to decrease the angular momentum allowing for the 360 degree twist to be initiated without over rotation.

By thrusting the shoulders open off the bar, the body can be lengthened, thus creating the decrease in angular momentum necessary to provide an effective twisting template. Please elaborate your reasoning behind 'hollowing' the body to twist.
 

gymdog

Well-Known Member
Coach
Proud Relative
Former Gymnast
Jul 5, 2007
5,117
'Also the arm motion and twist should come in somewhat "hollow".'

Gymdog you say on one hand to decrease your angular velocity off the bar, but on the other hand, by performing a 'hollow' in a twist you are increasing your angular velocity. This 'hollowing' of the body will actually speed up rotation of the flip by making the body shorter..
Yeah I'm having a hard time putting it in words like you said. I definitely agree shoulders need to be open on the release (otherwise there's going to be direction problems towards the bar). Hollow is a bad word because I don't really mean completely hollow through the body (although I don't think there should be arch - I probably tend to interchange "hollow" with "straight" to be honest, which is a bad idea), I mean more through the shoulders in the second part of the flip. Basically I mean thinking about the body moving around the shoulders, which stay in one place and when I think about doing that the shoulders feel slightly rounded (if the arms are going to pull in bent around the chest bc that seems to create more momentum in the positioning if they don't think about their shoulder position ...I kind of think of it differently than when there is a one arm drop with that arm straight). I say it as rounded around the chest because there is a tendency to set the direction off to the side, twist or let go too soon, and to keep pulling the shoulders back (although that's partly due to problems earlier on in the skill establishing that position), rather than thinking about keeping the rotation about one center even throughout the twist. I guess I am really saying if you pull both arms in bent towards the chest, keep the position of the shoulders in check so you aren't dropping one shoulder back too hard (and letting the head follow) through the flip.

I still recommend to going back to layouts with a "pull" at the right time, and then a pull to half at the same time. To be honest I always did flipping dismounts off bars so this one is hard for me to explain personally - I would have definitely been an over-rotater on a full flyaway. But the biggest problem I see with them is not establishing the stalled layout "around the shoulders" before twisting and this would have been my problem - I would have wanted to basically peel off early and drop one shoulder back and twist it like that. I would actually be really scared of full twist flyaways. Too much to think about for me. Some people pick them up really well though.
 
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