Leaning/sitting during practice

[TeamDad]

Does your gym have coaches that are always leaning against walls, columns/stacked mats or sitting during practice?

 

[msl529]

My dd used to go to a gym where the coaches did this. They rarely ever got up off of their seats, and only did so when spotting was necessary. I didn't like it, but dd was happy there, so I didn't complain.

Later, when we moved to a more successful, competitive gym, things were very different. The coaches never sat down, in fact I beleive there was a gym rule to that effect. Needless to say, dd loved the coaching at that gym, and she did very well there.

I think if they want the girls to work hard, the coaches should be equally dedicated and working hard at their coaching, which means they stand near the gymnasts and are engaged in the workout. I think this shows respect for everyone at the gym.

Are you having a prob w/ lazy coaches at your dd's gym?

 

[nettyinpa]

My dd's coach last year went one step further. He not only would sit during some practices but would also answer e-mails and text on his blackberry. Thankfully, she doesn't have him anymore. Her coaches now never sit.

 

[TeamDad]

Really excellent post and completely on target.

My dd used to go to a gym where the coaches did this. They rarely ever got up off of their seats, and only did so when spotting was necessary. I didn't like it, but dd was happy there, so I didn't complain.

Later, when we moved to a more successful, competitive gym, things were very different. The coaches never sat down, in fact I beleive there was a gym rule to that effect. Needless to say, dd loved the coaching at that gym, and she did very well there.

I think if they want the girls to work hard, the coaches should be equally dedicated and working hard at their coaching, which means they stand near the gymnasts and are engaged in the workout. I think this shows respect for everyone at the gym.

Are you having a prob w/ lazy coaches at your dd's gym?

 

[gymdog]

Well, I don't think anyone should be sitting intensively during practice. It seems like I need to spot constantly anyway. But sometimes I might sit if they're doing some sort of timer thing and I'm trying to watch from further back to see what's up rather than step in. We have stuff all over the floor, it's not always an ideal set up, so it happens. Or if there's conditioning and there's not a good place to stand. You definitely shouldn't always be sitting, although on the other hand I'm not sure I'd even notice leaning against walls or stacked mats or something, unless it meant they were never spotting or coaching. Especially at the optional level where more independent basics were done, my group was usually split in two among track/floor and the coaches would kind of stay in the middle, spot as needed, and be watching two stations. It was pretty effective and not a problem I'd say.

With lower levels at this point in the year there's honestly very little I don't step in for that's an "on level" or "higher level" skill for that level. Many of them just don't have the consistent shaping or basics yet for me to stand back. With bars, when they first start swinging. However, I often spot handsprings (front/back, well drills anyway) from my knees and might sit back in between kids or while giving an instruction, so I suppose that could be interpreted as sitting constantly through the rotation from the viewing area. If we're on low beams, for instance, I'm probably sitting in some way, whether spotting or not. I'm not really concerned about that. If a parent has a problem with the program, they should speak to the director who can evaluate whether the workout is being structured effectively or not.

 

[TeamDad]

Thanks, it's always good to hear the view from the other side to help put things in perspective.

Well, I don't think anyone should be sitting intensively during practice. It seems like I need to spot constantly anyway. But sometimes I might sit if they're doing some sort of timer thing and I'm trying to watch from further back to see what's up rather than step in. We have stuff all over the floor, it's not always an ideal set up, so it happens. Or if there's conditioning and there's not a good place to stand. You definitely shouldn't always be sitting, although on the other hand I'm not sure I'd even notice leaning against walls or stacked mats or something, unless it meant they were never spotting or coaching. Especially at the optional level where more independent basics were done, my group was usually split in two among track/floor and the coaches would kind of stay in the middle, spot as needed, and be watching two stations. It was pretty effective and not a problem I'd say.

With lower levels at this point in the year there's honestly very little I don't step in for that's an "on level" or "higher level" skill for that level. Many of them just don't have the consistent shaping or basics yet for me to stand back. With bars, when they first start swinging. However, I often spot handsprings (front/back, well drills anyway) from my knees and might sit back in between kids or while giving an instruction, so I suppose that could be interpreted as sitting constantly through the rotation from the viewing area. If we're on low beams, for instance, I'm probably sitting in some way, whether spotting or not. I'm not really concerned about that. If a parent has a problem with the program, they should speak to the director who can evaluate whether the workout is being structured effectively or not.

 

[gymbaby12]

never. were not aloud to sit in our gym and neither do our coaches, ever.

 

[canadiangymmom]

Our coaches are extremely hands on and don't really have time to sit or lean. The exception would be when the girls are doing their assignments on individual apparatus, the coach may sit back to oversee and give pointers.

I can't imagine having coaches who weren't hands on in such a demanding sport. Our coaches aren't just spotting, they're demonstrating body shapes, and even skills to some degree.

 

[kiwiflyer]

As a coach I very rarely sit. I do kneel, but that's usually spotting or getting down to the kids' level. I have been know to lean against the wall, but again that's when I'm trying to stand back and have a look at what the gymnast is doing (we have space issues). So basically what I'm saying is, if I'm kneeling or leaning, there's generally a reason for it.

 

[coachmolly]

I only sit during practice if I'm kneeling to spot or if the kids are doing some kind of conditioning on the floor and I sit to be at the same level as them. Sometimes I even feel bad about sitting then. I feel more engaged with my classes when I'm on my feet, walking around, giving corrections, and seeing what's going on.

 

[toriluvsgym0618]

My dd's coach last year went one step further. He not only would sit during some practices but would also answer e-mails and text on his blackberry. Thankfully, she doesn't have him anymore. Her coaches now never sit.

The coach at my old gym did that. But the coaches at my new gym dont. Since we cant stand they cant stand. They olney sit down if we are all getting into our lines for groups(wich we all sit down) or if we are all haveing a "team discusion".

 

[Deleted member D3987]

sometimes we sit and observe. sometimes not. you must have a problem paying for someone sitting?

and by the way, how successful your gymnasts are has nothing to do with how often we sit.

only what comes out of our mouths via our brains...not our feet.

 

[NotAMom]

I think it depends on the individual but in general it's probably not acceptable to see coaches just sitting or laying around.

We had a coach (in his 50s) who always sat except when he had to spot. But, his coaching technique was very verbal and he had eyes in back of his head so he could monitor every move of every kid. Hardly anyone got away with anything. He was extremely effective and he yielded some very good results. He is a special breed indeed but he was our best coach yet. .

 

[Linsul]

I'm not a fan of a lot of sitting or leaning, I try to be mindful of perception since the huge majority of my hours are rec. That said, perception isn't truth but to a viewer who can't hear what's going on that's what they're relying on. When I do sit it's typically for stretching, easy things like pike stretch and straddles and such. It's a relaxed way to say 'hi' and let the girls know whats on the workout agenda. I'm on their level, and they can ask any questions and such. Since they're doing stretches that can easily be verbally corrected I don't think much of it. Most of the time actually I'm in a straddle with my elbows on the floor during Q & A time. Not for splits though, I'm a stickler for square shoulders and hips, with the back leg turned under. I'm sure the girls would rather split time be chat time lol.

I gesture a lot when I talk, I count things off on my fingers, I face who I'm talking to and am pretty animated. If I was standing while going through the days plans with them I'm sure it would come off as lecturing or aggressive to a viewer when it's actually just informative and precise. While leaning and actual lounge position seating aren't my weaknesses, I do find that I like to cross my arms a lot. Also, I NEVER wear pants with pockets in them. I would never miss a spot over pockets, but all the in between time or talking time I know where my hands would be and I think it's too casual a look for an 'audience.' Also, the arm crossing thing is when I'm really into what I'm watching. Nothing that would require a spot, usually when the gymnast herself has specifically said 'hey watch me do xxx and tell me what you think.' I try not to if it occurs to me, and the girls don't mind since it gives them impression material to joke about with me, but that's my personal body language pitfall.

 

[cathiann]

Nope, in fact there's a gym rule that coaches should never be sitting (my oldest DD coaches rec classes now and it's written in every monthly newsletter they get). The team coaches never, ever sit down--they're always up spotting or offering advice.

 

[TeamDad]

"sometimes we sit and observe. sometimes not. you must have a problem paying for someone sitting?"

It has nothing to do with money, in fact, if I started to think about the money spent we'd have left the sport long ago. I can understand that coaches have lives outside of the gym and can be to tired to stand once in awhile, but in our case, it is the same coaches standing back and leaning with what seems to be attitude and disinterest all of the time. DD was the L5 state champ on bars. At L6 she got one of these coaches on bars. She went through the entire season making the same deductions at every meet. We learned over the summer that she was gripping the bar incorrectly and needed to change her grip. Because she had been doing it incorrectly for an entire season, the change was difficult for her. The other coach does beam, again over the summer we bought her to another gym that has made corrections in very basic things that have become bad habits because she has been allowed to continue to do these things incorrectly. As she advances in the levels, they become blocks or make it impossible for her to do the bigger skills that are required creating a dangerous situation. For example, something as simple as back foot in line with the beam on a cartwheel (a L4 skill) was causing her to crash on her L7 beam dismount because her back foot was turned out and her hips rotated was going un-corrected. Crashing on the dismount can lead to fear issues....etc. Needless to say, this was overlooked by a leaning coach and corrected by a coach at a gym with a no leaning or sitting policy.

"and by the way, how successful your gymnasts are has nothing to do with how often we sit."

We don't have any issues here. DD is a hard worker and a dogged competitor. She just deserves a coach who is actively putting in the same effort IMHO. We are spending too much time having to un-do bad habits. I like to say 'practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent'

"only what comes out of our mouths via our brains...not our feet"

It still helps to lead by example, again IMHO

 

[gymnut1]

I do agree with what you say. Practise does make permanent. I teach smaller children and I am too busy correcting to sit down (unless I need to sit to their level to do the correcting hehe) when I am really tired I have a sit down when they are getting a drink and stand up when they get back.

However I don't think your problem lies essentially with sitting/ leaning I think it lays with quality of coaching. One may be a good indicator of the other but not exclusively so. I think not correcting bad habits is poor coaching whether the coach is sitting, lying or standing.

It is so frustrating as a parent to watch a child repeat the same basic error without correction. However it is just as frustrating as a coach to have a child repeat the same basic error endlessly when you have given the correction lots of times. (not your issue I know)

And I disagree that coaching comes only from the mouth. I coach 6-7 year olds and nearly all the coaching involves physical shaping from me. Just talking at them would get you no where as they dont 'feel' the shapes yet. You have to put them in the shape to get them to remember it.

 

[momofchalksters]

I am a rec coach and I almost never sit. I kneel when I am spotting (I coach young, small kids) and I sit when we are doing stretches (pike, straddle,etc) Other than that, the only time I purposely sat down during one of my classes is when I banged the heck out of my knee getting off the trampoline. But then again, my head was spinning from the pain so I kind of had to sit down LOL

My DDs' team coaches usually stand if they are not actively spotting someone (like during conditioning,etc)

 

[gymdog]

For example, something as simple as back foot in line with the beam on a cartwheel (a L4 skill) was causing her to crash on her L7 beam dismount because her back foot was turned out and her hips rotated was going un-corrected. Crashing on the dismount can lead to fear issues....etc. Needless to say, this was overlooked by a leaning coach and corrected by a coach at a gym with a no leaning or sitting policy.

Well, I teach foot turn out in CW to lunge in L5, but I would not suggest that for the punching action into the dismount. It is a different skill...a lunge versus releve "lock". Same thing with BHS or layout into another skill or BHS/layout to finish. This is a change that could be explained verbally, really, so I'm not sure sitting is the problem as much as not developing the skill correctly. What if the coach was physically unable to stand? You could still teach these skills - they don't really require spotting per se, though that might facilitate the process for some girls. The particular distinction being proposed is a matter of teaching the punching action for beam acro efficiently, but doesn't really require spotting or standing in for visual cues. This can be explained (we're taking off through releve/lock) or drills used include HS three steps back on toe, HS to punch, jump rope on beam using toes, etc. I could teach all that sitting easily, except for the fact that our beams back up to a runway, so there's nowhere to sit. It sounds like there's a general attitude problem going on (lack of interest in correct skill development). While I think it's a general good policy for coaches to avoid sitting and look engaged, this is not really the root of the problem...again I've met good coaches physically unable to stand, or stand for long periods. The real issue is good planning, communication among coaches, and correct skill development.

 

[Geoffrey Taucer]

sometimes we sit and observe. sometimes not. you must have a problem paying for someone sitting?

and by the way, how successful your gymnasts are has nothing to do with how often we sit.

only what comes out of our mouths via our brains...not our feet.

As seems to frequently be the case with me and dunno, I agree and dissagree.

Standing up will not automatically make you a better coach. It will not automatically give you a better eye, or make you more knowledgable.

However, technical knowledge is but one part of what it takes to be a great coach.

Kids pick up on their coaches' energy. It is common knowledge that kids can read body language better than adults, and it is therefore easy for kids to tell whether we are excited and enthusiastic about our coaching. If kids can see that we are full of energy and excitement about what they are doing, they will be equally excited, and will therefore work much harder.

Sitting, leaning, resting, these things communicate that we are tired or disinterested. And why should the kids be excited about pushing themselves forward if we aren't?

There are times when a coach should bring the energy level down a bit, or take some time to simply observe in silence, but these are the rare exceptions, and not the rule; I believe that it is almost always best for coaches to be on their feet and physically engaged in the workout for its entirety. Afterall, this is no less than what we ask of the gymnasts.