WAG Level 6 bar routine question

[Perlma]

Can someone who is more experienced please confirm if the following level 6 bar routine fulfills all the requirements?

• Kip - squat on - jump to high high bar- kip- cast to 45 degrees- giant - flyaway

Thank you!

 

[ayyyrial]

Here are the requirements (from the USAG website):
-5 As and 1 B
-1 cast, minimum horizontal
-1 bar change
-1 circling element (usually clear hips or giants)
-dismount, minimum A

This proposed routine has a cast, a bar change, a circling element, and an A dismount so it's good on those requirements. Let's look at the skill values:
Kip: A
Squat on: A
Kip: A
Cast: A
Giant: B
Flyaway: A
Total: 5 As, 1 B

So it looks like it meets all the requirements.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Can someone who is more experienced please confirm if the following level 6 bar routine fulfills all the requirements?

• Kip - squat on - jump to high high bar- kip- cast to 45 degrees- giant - flyaway

Thank you!

I believe you need to add a free hip to meet the requirement. A stalder or toe hand will work too, but most gymnasts can do a free hip way earlier than those two skills.

 

[wandrewsjr]

That routine would start from a 9.4. It's missing a 3/6/7 circling skill(like a clear hip or stalder) and is missing one "A" element because the cast can't be counted as an element unless it comes within 20 degrees of handstand.

 

[Perlma]

Thank you. That's what I thought. Do I bring it up with the coach? The states are next week and the coach decided that dd will be doing a giant since she got it pretty consistently. Dd has a beautiful free hip so not sure why she doesn't let her do it.

 

[Gymmommy71]

Thank you. That's what I thought. Do I bring it up with the coach? The states are next week and the coach decided that dd will be doing a giant since she got it pretty consistently. Dd has a beautiful free hip so not sure why she doesn't let her do it.

It would be very odd if a coach didn't understand that a free hip is required in an optional bar routine. Are there other level 6's and higher level optionals at your gym? Perhaps you are misunderstanding that there isn't a free hip in the routine? I guess there's a chance that the coach just really wants your daughter to compete the giant and feels doing both skills will cause more deductions than it's worth in SV and is okay w/ the reduced start value, but that would be really unlikely - especially if your daughter has a good free hip - you'd just do both skills in that case.

A parent confronting a coach who is making a mistake can sometimes cause more problems when it's worth though. A few tenths missed on a bar routine score at one meet may not be worth the damage to the relationship that would occur by your telling this coach they are wrong. Know what I mean?

 

[ayyyrial]

Here are the requirements (from the USAG website):
-5 As and 1 B
-1 cast, minimum horizontal
-1 bar change
-1 circling element (usually clear hips or giants)
-dismount, minimum A

This proposed routine has a cast, a bar change, a circling element, and an A dismount so it's good on those requirements. Let's look at the skill values:
Kip: A
Squat on: A
Kip: A
Cast: A
Giant: B
Flyaway: A
Total: 5 As, 1 B

So it looks like it meets all the requirements.

I'm incorrect - as others have pointed out, a giant does not fulfill the circling requirement, which covers clear hips, toe shoots, and stalders.

 

[sce]

I believe you need to add a free hip to meet the requirement. A stalder or toe hand will work too, but most gymnasts can do a free hip way earlier than those two skills.

I think the giant meets the same requirement a free-hip meets.

 

[Perlma]

It would be very odd if a coach didn't understand that a free hip is required in an optional bar routine. Are there other level 6's and higher level optionals at your gym? Perhaps you are misunderstanding that there isn't a free hip in the routine? I guess there's a chance that the coach just really wants your daughter to compete the giant and feels doing both skills will cause more deductions than it's worth in SV and is okay w/ the reduced start value, but that would be really unlikely - especially if your daughter has a good free hip - you'd just do both skills in that case.

A parent confronting a coach who is making a mistake can sometimes cause more problems when it's worth though. A few tenths missed on a bar routine score at one meet may not be worth the damage to the relationship that would occur by your telling this coach they are wrong. Know what I mean?

We are at a very small gym and it's the first optional year for our coach. The coach is amazing but I think there is a lack of experience.

 

[Gymmommy71]

I think the giant meets the same requirement a free-hip meets.

A giant is a B, which is why it's used a lot in level 7 instead of a second free hip (which is also a B), but level 6-7-8 have a requirement that the routine must have a free hip/stalder/toe hand. Free hips incur a lot of deductions - believe me, there are many gymnasts that would chose doing multiple giants over a single free hip if they could, but the free hip is a requirement. Even in level 7 and 8 you need to at least do one free hip/stalder/toe hand. I bet it's required in 9/10 as well, but I'm not as familiar w/ those rules enough to say for sure.

 

[raenndrops]

I think the giant meets the same requirement a free-hip meets.

A giant is not from group 3, 6, or 7. A giant is a Group 4 skill.

 

[2G1B]

We were at a meet where a girl did that routine and she was given a 9.5 start value. She still got I think an 8.8 or an 8.9, it was a beautiful routine. I hated to see her get that 9.5 start value (and I didn't even know her!).

 

[duyetanh]

It would be very odd if a coach didn't understand that a free hip is required in an optional bar routine. Are there other level 6's and higher level optionals at your gym? Perhaps you are misunderstanding that there isn't a free hip in the routine? I guess there's a chance that the coach just really wants your daughter to compete the giant and feels doing both skills will cause more deductions than it's worth in SV and is okay w/ the reduced start value, but that would be really unlikely - especially if your daughter has a good free hip - you'd just do both skills in that case.

A parent confronting a coach who is making a mistake can sometimes cause more problems when it's worth though. A few tenths missed on a bar routine score at one meet may not be worth the damage to the relationship that would occur by your telling this coach they are wrong. Know what I mean?

Any chance your child could approach the coach on it? If you feel that it could cause an issue with the relationship (I have no idea what your relationship is with your kid's coach, obviously), I would have your child ask. Because yes, you need a clearhip. Plain and simple. Ironically, you don't even need the Giant. Mine had level 6 bars without it, and had a 10 start value. Good luck!

 

[coachmolly]

I would ask the coach, just be careful how you word it. You can have your child say something like, "Are you sure I don't need my clear hip, I thought it was a requirement" or maybe that she's been watching some level 6 routines and noticed they all have clear hips. She could even say she really like doing her clear hip and is hoping to do both.

 

[Mish]

I get that you don't question the coach on coaching, however, if the coach doesn't know the basic required elements I don't see why that can't be stated. The gymnast should start at a lower start value because you have to tread lightly here?? They are being paid to know the rules.

 

[Seeker]

I get that you don't question the coach on coaching, however, if the coach doesn't know the basic required elements I don't see why that can't be stated. The gymnast should start at a lower start value because you have to tread lightly here?? They are being paid to know the rules.

Some of them don't though....or they misunderstand/misinterpret things. It is shocking, but it definitely happens more often than people realize. I would find a tactful/respectful way to bring it up and hopefully it will be changed.

 

[Mish]

I get that, and I'm not suggesting she should be disrespectful in any way, just that lv 6 bars is not that complicated to figure out, even for a parent Hope it works out for O/P!!

 

[Gymmommy71]

I've seen/known of coaches who don't know what they are doing as far as routine composition. Some of these coaches are great at teaching skills, but just really shouldn't be in charge of an optional program. At the very least an inexperienced coach should be bringing in outside help/consulting to make sure their routines meet the requirements/are as competitive as possible for the gymnasts skill set, but some gyms may not want to find this.

I'd still be kind of nervous about confronting a coach to tell them they are wrong about something like this - some of them have big egos and can get pretty offended when a parent or gymnasts questions their judgement.

I might try once saying something, and then if they don't listen (which they could), hopefully seeing the reduced start value at the meet will make them see the light (of course, they could always think it's related to a missing cast requirement or something else).

At the very least you'll learn a lot about how ot is to deal w/ this coach from this experience.

 

[Perlma]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I texted the coach this morning and she said that she will double check with coaches/judges she knows.

 

[e'smum]

dd did kip/ CH/ free hip/ kip/ squat on - jump to high bar, kip CH flyaway. she went vertical on both CH. giants not required.

i think there is a some wiggle room with lvl 6 routines but dd's routine was the one everyone seemed to do. very few giants and usually lower score with the giants vs. the CH/flyaway.