Line Crowders!!! Urgh!

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lakshmi369

Member
Mar 4, 2008
97
I have talked to lots of parents over the years and lately there is a reaccuring complaint of "line crowders". You know, you are watching your DD waiting her turn on a rotation and another DD crowds her out to take an extra turn. I was wondering if anyone has encountered and found a remedy for the "scourge of crowdering"? The gym's phylosophy is that it shows desire to compete and so the Coaches allow it. Many Parents view it as one DD showing another DD a lack of teamwork and respect. Any ideas or advice for parents to resolve this kind of thing???:confused:
 
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R

Rec Coach

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IMO, budging in line is not acceptable social behaviour! The only time I find it ok is when a student is goofing off/not paying attention and misses their turn - then it's 'too bad'!
 

gymdog

Well-Known Member
Coach
Former Gymnast
Proud Relative
Jul 5, 2007
5,121
I have never found this to be a real problem at the team levels and I think lines should be minimized anyway. I do not consider it "competitive" and I do not encourage it. I try to focus on setting things up to keep kids moving, but lines are inevitable. When there is a line (i.e. I'm spotting something on one beam and they are rotating through this) then I call each child in turn. I expect them to both come at their turn and not come at another turn. This sometimes requires that I call someone twice because some children quite frankly aren't that interested in taking their turn in a timely manner. Some try to come too often and I send them back to the "waiting" activity. If they refuse to come after several warnings, they forfeit their turn.

If waiting in line and cutting is a real daily problem in a team level training group, then I think the structure of the program needs to be evaluated. 99% of team participates are age 7-8+ and this is old enough to follow basic social courtesies most of the time. If someone accidentally gets out of order or messes up and thus goes again quickly, that is fine with me and to be expected on occasion. With older girls I have found the bigger problem is that for certain exercises everyone tries to get out of "their turn" with various injuries or needs to rest/eat/get a drink/go to the bathroom, resulting in a lag where no one goes resulting in a lot of "Whose turn is it???" "I just went!!!!" "I'm after Mary!!!" "Mary's after Jane!!!" etc.
 

lakshmi369

Member
Mar 4, 2008
97
Thats kind of funny. I know what you are saying though ... at the level our DD is at this year she is the receipient of lots of "extra rotations and coaching" by default! All of the girls on her team are older than her and are often "Going to get a drink, going to the bathroom, strained their____ (fill in the blank)". Only bad thing is it really wipes out our DD to fill in the openings and though the extra training is great she usually pays for it physically for a few days after! I guess if it is not one thing it is another in gymnastics! Thanks for the insite.
 

lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
409
way out West
A lot of it depends pretty heavily on the age and level of the athlete.

While cutting in line in itself is not a desireable behavior, the urge to repeat a drill or skill is. I never punish an athlete for wanting to try again, but they may never touch another gymnast or try to intimidate a classmate/teammate.

As stated above, the kids should really not be standing around long enough for anyone to "cut".

As the kids get older, however...they need to be way more assertive and cognizant of their warmup order, which is probably why coaches would rather see a little gymnast push to the front rather than stand around staring off into space.

Some kids (and many adults for that matter) always try to push to the front of the line...it's second nature to some.
 
B

Billy

Guest
There isn't too much line cutting at our gym. However, I do notice girls often taking "do-overs." You know... "I messed up/ didn't get my front hip circle/ etc. I need a do over." It's really only problematic on bars where a girl must actually let go of the bar and move away before someone else can have a turn. Thus it's easier to monopolize things.
 

midwestgymmom

Active Member
Aug 27, 2006
661
midwest
We were just discussing this type of behavior last week at the gym. At camp I was watching the beam rotation and another mom and I watched one of dds teammates being a "beam hog" It was really intersting to watch her methodically picking a beam she wanted, attach herself physically to it, take it over, and not give it up until she was ready-usually after 15 backwalkovers and after all the girls who wanted to try the beam had waited and waited and finally gave up and wandered off. And the coaches never see it because they are too busy.


And yes I have to sit at practice usually for the whole thing because we live so far away.(I have to conserve gas and money) It is so interesting to watch the dynamics in the gym- the pushers, the polite turn takers, the order trackers, the line leavers, the do-over beggars and the daydreamers(which my dd falls into this group due to her ADHDit's not that she wants to miss a turn she just gets distracted easily

Sorry for the derail:eek:
 

lakshmi369

Member
Mar 4, 2008
97
midwestgymmom (or anyone else that wants to chime in), I like all the catagories you have come up with! How very true! I have seen the same "diversity" at some other practices. Just curious but do you also have the Parent "Turn Counters"? You know the super uptight among us that actually count the number of turns at rotations to see if their DD is somehow getting short changed?
 

mom2kazkids

Member
Proud Parent
Feb 16, 2008
452
We have a girl similiar to the one that midwestgymmom describes and DD hates to get behind her in beam rotation. She will not leave a station until she has done the skill at least 6 times. There is always a line forming behind her.

We also have one with the opposite practice methods, she will skip the back walkover on the beam until she gets busted for not doing it.

Barb
 

lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
409
way out West
We have a girl similiar to the one that midwestgymmom describes and DD hates to get behind her in beam rotation. She will not leave a station until she has done the skill at least 6 times. There is always a line forming behind her.

We also have one with the opposite practice methods, she will skip the back walkover on the beam until she gets busted for not doing it.

Barb
And you guys ask why coaches are crazy...;)
 

midwestgymmom

Active Member
Aug 27, 2006
661
midwest
midwestgymmom (or anyone else that wants to chime in), I like all the catagories you have come up with! How very true! I have seen the same "diversity" at some other practices. Just curious but do you also have the Parent "Turn Counters"? You know the super uptight among us that actually count the number of turns at rotations to see if their DD is somehow getting short changed?

We used to have some of those. Since I am there at dds practices I am usually the only who notices whats going on. there is about 4 of us that have to drive half an hr to an hour and a half to go to practices. the rest of the parents dont come so we are the cheering section for the girls whos parents arent there to see their accomplishments or smile and hug them when practice isnt going well.
We also have one with the opposite practice methods, she will skip the back walkover on the beam until she gets busted for not doing it.

Barb
Oh yeah I forgot the "scared skippers" that let people budge ahead so they dont have to try it:rotfl:
And you guys ask why coaches are crazy...;)
Oh we know better than to ask ;) :D
 

gotgym

Coach/Proud Parent
Coach
Former Gymnast
Proud Parent
Jun 11, 2008
275
Illinois
I am sure it looks different from the outside than inside the gym.. After reading this post I observed the bar rotation from the beam area. I counted turns and later discussed it with a group of level 8s a variety of ages. I asked why Kailee(age 9) got 2- 3x as many turns as everyone else. The girls looked very sheepish as I announced I thought Kailee was cutting and going to discuss it with her. Kaillee looked upset until one of the older girls chimed in that Kailee wasnt cutting but she doesnt talk and is fast getting her assignment done because some of them just stand around the chalkbin., then another girl admitted to skipping several turns because of cramps ,and finally another mentioned she always takes a bathroom break on bars since its her least favorite event. I knew what was happenning but I wanted to bring it to their attention what it looked like. I thanked them for being honest and they asked if I am going to continue to count their turns. It may keep that bar rotation moving for awhile anyway!
 
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K

KBT

Guest
As a coach, I try to monitor the number of turns each kids gets. With my younger girls I know who's after who in line - it's easy to notice when a kid tries to skip. With my older, high school girls who have a more informal structure (i.e. do eight beam routines, and they can choose when and how and what beam to use) it's harder to monitor especially since I do a lot of wandering around spotting and giving corrections. I still have a pretty good idea of who's getting their skills done and who's going to the bathroom. Also, I spot most of the newer skills so I definitely know when those get done! If I notice a kid consistently skipping parts of their assignment, I'll talk to her, monitor her a bit more closely, and maybe remove her from the lineup. If you don't do the work during practice, it's not fair to let you compete over a kid who does work hard.
 
B

Billy

Guest
But what do you do about kids who "hog" the equipment taking turn after turn and not letting anyone else in?
 
K

KBT

Guest
But what do you do about kids who "hog" the equipment taking turn after turn and not letting anyone else in?
If you're talking about things like bars where the kid keeps doing skills, I ask the kid to get off the equipment, stating that her turn is over and she'll get another chance after everyone else goes. For a real equipment hog who still won't get off, I will physically get in the way of her being able to do the skill so she has to stop. With younger kids, you can usually get in the way so she'll "fall off" the bar - like preventing her from getting all the way around in a back hip circle - at which point I can remove her hands from the bar. If a kid skips, I will also physically get in the way of her being able to go.

I've never had to do anything beyond this, although I would make a kid sit on a mat for a few minutes while she thinks about playing nicely and taking turns like everyone else. I could also change the skill or drill we're doing. These are mostly rec kids so moving to a "group" activity like everyone lining up and practicing jumps or doing circle situps would work. Actually, once I get to know the kids I try to structure my class to avoid these types of situations.

For older kids, I might change the assignment - instead of eight routines, you could do two routines on each beam. I've also done rotations where each kid takes a beam for five minutes, then we rotate beams so it's impossible to hog. For the most part, my older girls share equipment well.
 

gymgymgymnast08

Active Member
Former Gymnast
Proud Relative
Dec 8, 2007
1,233
Country
USA
We have rotations on beam like usually 2 people to a beam. If you get stuck with one of the beam hogs you just have to physically make them get off the beam. For every other event we are just in line so we don't really have and hogs but there is always a few girls who will be done before the others. Then theres the ones who are always like can I do 1 more? Thats the group im part of.
 
K

KBT

Guest
Also on bars I'll often announce "everyone gets three tried at a back hip circle when it's their turn" so the kids know what to expect. The very well behaved children hop right off after three, the equipment hogs try to do one more but then I can clearly say "no, you've tried your three, time for someone else".
 
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