WAG Liukin just resigned

[Flyaway]

Nicely stated @azara. I feel similarly to you.

 

[scanlri]

@azara Your brain dump is significantly more well stated than anything I could have written and re-written many times! Thank you for your take on all sides of the issue.

 

[RGmomLV]

His words to Russian media is very Liukin. I think he naturally is not a very good communicator.

My cautious attitude towards Liukin is shifting into negative territory: http://eng.gymnovosti.com/valeri-liukin-everyones-looking-for-someone-to-blame/. He gave this short statement to Russian media.

“The main reason for my resignation is the scandal with the doctor. Everyone is now looking for someone to blame even though I had nothing to do with the main [team] staff at the time”.

I do not think he has grasped the reason people are against him. His relation to the Nassar case is solely that Nassar sparked a sport-wide investigation into generally abusive and unsavoury practices. Whether or not you think it's fair, every wrong that coaches and gymnastics-affiliated individuals have done in the past are being discovered, scrutinised, and punished at the moment. Valeri's past is far from squeaky-clean, regardless of what he is like now, and without his initiation of a transparent conversation, he has gotten hammered. I'm not sure his position was ever tenable given how closely he was affiliated with the "old guard", but I do think he could have bowed out gracefully had he been more open. Clear conversation about his past practices vs. his present ones, an explanation of his ethos and methods as a coach, accepting past wrongs, and specifically outlining how and why he changed would have made a big difference to perceptions of him. Although I think he'd have to resign anyway, it would be primarily for association, not for his reprehensible approach, which I should think is preferable.

Although I personally think his strategies as a coach were totally unacceptable and correctly disqualified him from the NTC position, I would be open to hearing about how he has evolved. I do believe that people can change and that he is not an evil person. I believe all of you who interacted with him and liked him. He is nevertheless the product of an old system and it is sad, but perhaps unsurprising, that he has employed the baser aspects of that in coaching his gymnasts.

If this post is contradictory, it's because I'm still sorting out my complex feelings about all this. I am not totally on board with the "his past actions have little to do with his position as NTC", but I also disagree that he is an evil person who deserves no forgiveness. I don't think he's Geddert-level awful, but I think he's bad enough that he shouldn't have been NTC. I am reasonably sure that he has missed the point in why some people dislike him.

tl;dr you are all the unwilling subjects of my brain dump as I think through this

his

 

[bookworm]

My cautious attitude towards Liukin is shifting into negative territory: http://eng.gymnovosti.com/valeri-liukin-everyones-looking-for-someone-to-blame/. He gave this short statement to Russian media.

“The main reason for my resignation is the scandal with the doctor. Everyone is now looking for someone to blame even though I had nothing to do with the main [team] staff at the time”.

Well now I see where his daughter's PR skills come from...apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

 

[azara]

Nicely stated @azara. I feel similarly to you.

@azara Your brain dump is significantly more well stated than anything I could have written and re-written many times! Thank you for your take on all sides of the issue.

You are very kind. I guess this is one of those issues where it's impossible to take a side - it's not a black and white problem with a clear solution.

Well now I see where his daughter's PR skills come from...apple doesn't fall far from the tree...

I certainly agree. Neither of them have handled this at all well, unfortunately. Both shut up like clams for a long time, and both made somewhat tone-deaf statements when pretty much forced to speak. I did think Nastia's letter was well-expressed, but she has not done very well otherwise. Perhaps it is a Russian thing. Or perhaps they are so wedded and connected to the old system that they are convinced that not much was wrong.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

it's not a black and white problem with a clear solution.

...as are so many problems in this world. Imagine how many we could solve if people could realize this. Great points, @azara

 

[wandrewsjr]

Anyway I totally don’t get why some people are acting like him resigning is a huge loss. It’s not like he has some kind of magic touch for creating winners. Nastia was an extremely lucky fluke whose style happened to align perfectly with that year’s code..

You have said this before and it’s downright silly. Nastia also won multiple World gold and silver medals, on 3 different events and in the AA, in the previous cycles code. There are many things to be critical of in regards to both Liukins, but Nastias gymnastics prowess is not one of them.

 

[Hollowarchkick]

USAG is being sued. USAG has attorneys. Attorneys tell you to not speak if there is a lawsuit. USAG tells employees and affiliates they are to not speak.
Even if they are no longer with usag, they have agreements we may not know about and legal support they have to answer to.

 

[merritt]

I make my daughter eat healthy food, despite her desire to have some ice cream and her favorite junk food. I hope she would not write about me negatively in her diary when she grows up and post it online.

But “eating healthy” doesn’t mean you can’t ever have ice cream or junk food. It’s about balance and moderation. Maybe I misread your post, and I hope so, but I think it’s extremely sad if your D isn’t allowed to have treats occasionally.

 

[GymFan96]

I make my daughter eat healthy food, despite her desire to have some ice cream and her favorite junk food. I hope she would not write about me negatively in her diary when she grows up and post it online.

I hope you aren’t saying this in response to Ohashi’s blog. There is a HUGE difference between making your kid eat healthy, and restricting/shaming them to the point where they develop bulimia.

Katelyn was constantly being told at the gym that she was too fat, and then her mom was reinforcing that message at home. That’s emotionally abusive to do to a child.

 

[Midwestmommy]

Ok, for writing this off to communication style and that this is only the problem of one bad guy... here’s an analogy.

We go out of town on a fabulous vacation to a far flung sunny place. I leave the sliding door to the deck unlocked, the mail and newspaper pile up, I don’t arrange to get the snow removed from the walkway and driveway, I don’t know my neighbors, and neither they or the police are keeping an eye on the house. I don’t have an alarm system.

I get home and my house has been robbed.

They catch the guy who has been breaking into houses in town, and whew I am so relieved! They got that guy! Next time I go out of town I won’t worry, and I don’t change anything except now I will always remember to check that all the doors are locked.

I think the problem is solved.

That’s what we mean be not getting it....

 

[Hollowarchkick]

Personally I’d blame the police, the neighbor, the mailman, the milkman, and the paperboy. In fact, the mayor should’ve had more police. The governor should’ve given more funds to the mayor.
And where was NATO when this happened?

 

[txgymfan]

Liukin allegedly ignored a gymnast being abused at WOGA after being informed.

This is another heartbreaking story of sexual and verbal abuse that way to many adults ignored.

http://indy.st/2nZItKj

 

[RGmomLV]

just read that Indy star story, it was horrific! My heart goes to the girl and her family!https://amp.indystar.com/amp/310129002?__twitter_impression=true

 

[Seeker]

Personally I’d blame the police, the neighbor, the mailman, the milkman, and the paperboy. In fact, the mayor should’ve had more police. The governor should’ve given more funds to the mayor.
And where was NATO when this happened?

Being sarcastic for affect/attention or do you truly believe that any adult who is aware of the abuse of a child should look the other way and ignore it because “it’s not my problem”?

 

[Hollowarchkick]

What I was trying to show is that there are always things that could’ve been spotted and hindsight is 20/20. There’s plenty of blame to go around after the fact. The bad guy is still the bad guy and the others can try to do better. It doesn’t necessarily mean that people weren’t interested in helping or didn’t care. They just may not have seen it.
To imply that I would ever be ok with a child being hurt or an adult turning a blind eye is ridiculous if you know me. I’m the last one that would ever fail to act. I realize you may not know me but that’s a bit over the line.

 

[Seeker]

What I was trying to show is that there are always things that could’ve been spotted and hindsight is 20/20. There’s plenty of blame to go around after the fact. The bad guy is still the bad guy and the others can try to do better. It doesn’t necessarily mean that people weren’t interested in helping or didn’t care. They just may not have seen it.
To imply that I would ever be ok with a child being hurt or an adult turning a blind eye is ridiculous if you know me. I’m the last one that would ever fail to act. I realize you may not know me but that’s a bit over the line.

Leaving an anonymous sarcastic comment leaves it open to interpretation, so that’s why I asked the question about your intent. It seems a stretch to say it’s ‘over the line’ because you’re right — we don’t know each other and I have no idea where you’re coming from or what you believe in. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Hollowarchkick]

Happy to do it. Have a great day!

 

[GymFan96]

Did y’all see the pic Nastia tweeted of the girls in the anchor shirts? It’s been confirmed they are protesting Valeri’s departure. Nastia tweeted the pic of some girls with Valeri and the caption “We Refuse To Sink.” A gym blogger named Lauren Hopkins posted the same pic with the caption “THE RESISTANCE IS NIGH.” And finally, Nastia liked a tweet by Lauren that’s says the shirts and “refuse to sink” slogan are their way of protesting Valeri no longer being part of the program.

Regardless of the other issues, I always felt he has too many conflicts of interest to be a fair Team Coordinator. His daughter has business ties through her Grander company with Ashton Locklear, and may sign deals with more national team members in the future. Also, there’s still WOGA. Despite him not coaching there in a while, how can he really be fair and impartial when it comes down to a WOGA girl and another gymnast who are neck and neck?

I think Nastia is only making herself look worse by tweeting her support of this protest. I get it, that’s her dad and she’s disappointed. But move on! I think it also makes her look kind of unprofessional as an NBC commentator.

 

[SMH]

I guess....what do they hope to accomplish? He resigned, are they just ‘showing aupport’ or are they expecting USAG to beg him to come back? He did leave of his own volition.