Moving up without being ready

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Just a thought, it seems like many parents with young, talented gymnasts are feeling "pressure" on this board to move their gymnasts quickly through the levels without being prepared. Perhaps the coaches can comment, but, how many gymnasts have you had or do you have that are able to master each level well enough to move 2-3 levels within one year? Is it common for gymnasts to do one meet at level 5, move to level 6 and then onto optionals the following year? From what I have seen those gymmies that fast track are really quite exceptional and have equally exceptional skills.
 
Just a thought, it seems like many parents with young, talented gymnasts are feeling "pressure" on this board to move their gymnasts quickly through the levels without being prepared. Perhaps the coaches can comment, but, how many gymnasts have you had or do you have that are able to master each level well enough to move 2-3 levels within one year? Is it common for gymnasts to do one meet at level 5, move to level 6 and then onto optionals the following year? From what I have seen those gymmies that fast track are really quite exceptional and have equally exceptional skills.

There is a story(rumor) about a girl in our gym who came from a Little Gym program at 8 yo. She did level 5 on Fri, 6 on Sat and 7 on a Sunday. She is an 8 now. She is very strong (I think she is 11) but we do have other girls who have "caught" up to her. Her bars are unbelievable tho - so maybe she will compete as a 9 this year. Its hard for the little girl parents to tell where they are before the optional season starts.
 
There is a story(rumor) about a girl in our gym who came from a Little Gym program at 8 yo. She did level 5 on Fri, 6 on Sat and 7 on a Sunday. She is an 8 now. She is very strong (I think she is 11) but we do have other girls who have "caught" up to her. Her bars are unbelievable tho - so maybe she will compete as a 9 this year. Its hard for the little girl parents to tell where they are before the optional season starts.

Wow that sounds like so much moving up. Couldn't imagine putting my daughter through that. But I guess if they have the talent and are ready to move up I guess you should let them. But only if they have their skills and aren't struggeling a lot. Still want it to be fun for them.
 
It depends on training I guess. I would say out of about 12 kids, I have 4 or so who could do what you describe, but they won't, because we simply don't structure things that way. Of course I'm talking about the foreseeable short term, because things usually slow down around the L8 to 9 jump, and it's hard to tell where they'll end up after that.

In some gyms kids just don't skip levels. That's fine, but I think that's the disconnect on this board, especially for people who are mostly only familiar with gymnastics through their daughter's participation and may have a limited perspective on how much training can vary. Some of these gyms skipping kids have very different training models, do more time, etc. I don't have a problem with the concept of skipping levels, but I tend to think it's rarely necessary. For me the kid would have to be 9+ at the compulsory levels to consider it. Otherwise we can get more skill training done by competing the lower levels and allocating more time to individual skill development than routines and frustration.
 
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Usually when a kid moves up like that, they have usually been uptraining for those levels...it's not a question of the gymnast not being ready but that they are progressing quickly through the levels.
 
The one thing I tend to see when I see threads about girls being moved up is they have skills at a level higher than what they are competing and it gives the impression that that is the reason parents think their child should move up. Having an isolated skill in no way means that a child should move up. Unless the skill can be performed in a routine, the isolated skill really means nothing.

Also, there is more to a routine than "hitting the big skill", especially at compulsory. If you can do a cartwheel or BWO on the beam, doesn't mean you are ready to move on. Can you hold a HS, a HS dismount? Can you do a 180 degree leap? Can you hold the scale in the position it is meant be held in? These are all requirements of a level too.

Same goes for floor, just because you can do a RO-BHS-BHS or RO-BT doesn't mean you are ready to move up a level. What's the FHS look like, is it squatty, does it lack form? Back extension roll, does it have the pop up to HS, does she T out of it - same with the BWO, does she T out of it. Again, are the leaps 180 degrees?

On bars, can the person cast to the required degree? What's the clear hip look like and the flyaway, is the flyaway low, do they have a tap in their baby giant. Can they do a straight arm kip?

Vault - Is the run good? Do they have pop on the FHS? I remember that when my dd did compulsory that the level of the table mattered. It was unacceptable to do a FHS on the lowest setting in our gym. You will certainly not be doing a Yurchenko vault on the lowest setting. And this all mattered for my dd, if she could of done vault on a lower setting she probably would of scored better. She's not a big kid and she was even smaller when she competed compulsories. She's 14 and she's 4'10" and weighs 88# so image what she was 3/4 yrs ago. I totally understand the claim that my child is small.

All of these things lead to the next skill. If you are pushing through the levels and fast tracking, the gymnast should be doing all of these things right. It should never be said that they score low because they are young, immature or lack dance (and isn't that the reason they are being pushed through because they can do everything?). If they are pushing through and fast tracking, they will always be young and immature and competing against girl their same exact age who will be doing everything perfectly. It's that mighty-mite group. They don't stand out so much as compulsories because there are a lot of youngens good & bad, but get into optionals and that mighty mite group is cut throat. They tend to blow all age groups in the level away (not just 1 or 2 girls, but most of them). Their AAs tend to be higher than every other age group and if you don't have the form and good basics to learn the hard skills, those mighty mites show no mercy. At this point, I am actually glad my dd is a little older because my Lord, it's tough at that younger age group.

Having been around awhile now, I've seen a couple of girls who have tested through to the next level and it is not surprising for many to end up repeating a level at some point or another to clean up form, get over a fear issue or whatever. So when they might of been a level or 2 higher than my dd, they are all at the same spot now.

My dd is now a freshman in HS and it's not a matter of me saying I have (whatever young age, high gymnast level) girl, I'm happy to just be able to say I have a dd that is still involved in the sport after doing it for so long, withstanding all of the external factors (schools & friends) and as of this past season mucking through a serious injury that took 4 months to heal. She still loves the sport and is going strong! And just for sh*ts & giggles told me when she came out of gym on Saturday that she not only had a "good" day and but she had a "good" second half of the week (not quite sure what happened to the first half! :p). She was proud of herself, smiling and happy!
 
Well said Granny! My dd is going to be a 9yo Level 7 and that age group is insanely competitive in our state. They are indeed the mighty mites!

As for moving quickly through the levels, we have had a few girls do more than one level in a year - usually L6 one meet and then to L7. Last year, we had two girls do both L7 and L8 in one year. One of them has been L4, L5, L6and L7 state champion. The other skipped 6 but won states at L5 and L7. They will both be 9s this year. They would both meet the criteria of being exceptional gymnasts and skipped 8 largely due to the fact that L8 is now so much closer to L7 than it used to be.

Edited to add that our gym doesn't usually skip levels other than L6 and usually only when we have girls who really are exceptional. Our HC is super competitive and wants to win so he wants his gymnasts to do well at meets, which means they have to have absolutely solid skills.
 
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megley, is Griffin J. one of those moved up? She was phenomenol at the state meets!!! I remember at Level 5, she went into a perfect cast to handstand in her bar routine!
 
Yes indeed. She will be a Level 9 this year and I predict great things. Her skills are impressive.

Our Level 7 team won states last year due in large part to the huge scores she and the other little girl put up. Not thinking we will be as successful this year at L7, but look out for our L9 team!
 
In WAG, I've only seen it a couple times, and not to that degree. I've seen a few former power tumblers go in and rock the socks off levels 4, 5, 6 in a couple months. The one I'm thinking of went to 7 pretty fast too-once she figured out bars, an awful lot of it was just like tumbling (MOST AGGRESSIVE BEAM ROUTINE EVER OH MY GOSH).

And in tumbling & trampoline I see it all the time. Just this summer we had a girl with very minimal gym/trampoline experience go from complete beginner to level 6 on trampoline, 6 training 7 on double mini, and a respectable training 5 on tumbling.
 
In some gyms kids just don't skip levels. That's fine, but I think that's the disconnect on this board, especially for people who are mostly only familiar with gymnastics through their daughter's participation and may have a limited perspective on how much training can vary. Some of these gyms skipping kids have very different training models, do more time, etc.


I agree we all tend to feel most 'secure' with the training model we experience at our own gym. I feel this is actually the great 'gift' of the forum - to share all our experiences. Sometimes it takes someone to stick their neck out and say something that to them seems normal - then you read the replies and realise there is so much variety out there in training and expectation. It is a great learning platform. Unfortunately sometimes we learn that a different way (not available to us lol) is actually better. :D
 
I really don't think you can make a blanket statement about fast progression in general, it really is totally dependent upon the individual child. Just because it works out really well for one kid doesn't mean it should be the route of choice with others or, on the flip side, just because it fails miserably with one kid doesn't mean it can't work out wonderfully for another.
Personally, I kind of have the "why rush?" theory, but I have also never coached a kid that is so exceptionally talented that they need to move up more than one level a year. My mind could easily be changed if I came into contact with that. With the girls I am working with currently, I think it's important for them to clean things up, develop good form and presentation, and really perfecting the basics before moving on and for these particular kids, that has taken time. Pushing them along, even if they did have the higher level skills, would just be setting them up for disappointment because they look sloppy.
However, the gym where I coach has a very reputable tramp and tumbling team as well and they have taken a kid from his first formal lesson to level 10 in a year or two and he is absolutely rocking at that level. I thought it was insane as I heard the other coaches talk about their plans for this kid, but it has worked out remarkably well and he is being challenged but also able to feel success at the same time. So there really is no standard good or bad formula, at least in my opinion and experiences.
 
For those comparing trampoline and tumbling to gymnastics it is like comparing apples to oranges. I love both sports and I doubt trampoline and tumbling to be easy but it is way different. Unless the kid is very little or has some fear you can train a monkey to do levels 1-4 in trampoline, the hardest thing about level 5 is a pullover and a front tuck, all you need for level 6 is a back tuck and back pike, not that those things are not hard but I have seen little fearless kids pick them up very quickly. It is very common to move multiple levels in a year in that sport. I would find it odd a child would have all the required regular gymnastic skills for level 6 in a matter of months of starting. Trampoline also makes life easier on regular gymnasts who want to pursue it or people coming back as you can begin competeting at level 7 and move score out of up to 2 level a meet. I know you cannot do that in regular gymnastics, two totally separate worlds.
 
I can say that rushing my DD through levels has NEVER been a mindset for me. Heck, when they moved her to level 4, I thought her coaches were nuts. But they have proved me wrong. A parent at our gym seems to think that at our gym they do have the mindset of moving her quickly because of her young age. But I don't see it as that.
I did my research before bringing her to the gym. This place has an outstanding record within our area. They have produced various elites and pre-elites. They have consistently contributed the most level 9 and 10 gymnasts to Nationals and Easterns, and if I was going to put my child in the best possible place for the long run this would be the best place. Many smaller gyms tell their own girls to come try our gym once the child reaches the optional level. Coaches working together for optimal training of the gymnast is always the best.
DD's gym is NOT about just pushing kids through levels. This factor is so stressed in my other post on another thread. I can say they do work on individual basis, but they do it without sacrificing the whole team. Coaches at DD's gym are very calculating. I strongly believe that that is the way to go. The best results are noted with this type of mentality.
To answer the question of some parents wanting their talented young gymmies to move up quickly, I would have to say I am not one of them. I do want DD to enjoy herself and live up to her potential. The seriousness she has in practice yet still manages to have the best laugh, or so I have been told, is what I am talking about. This child can also tumble so well. Her ability to observe a skill and do it to the best of her ability is also tremendous in my eye. That doesn't negate the factor that her coaches have to stress to her to keep her legs straight and point those toes!! She is still so young.
I brought her to this gym because I don't want to repeat the mistakes I made withj her older sister by moving her from gym to gym. Her coaches and DD herself hold her career in their hands. I will step in if I ever think something is too crazy. So far, I haven't seen anything. Where she belongs is where she will be. You can't rush things especially when kids are involved. Trust me this DD will tell us to stop. That is the #1 aspect I love of this sport! Gymnastics has created such an empowered little girl. Tell her she can't do a move or read a book at a certain length get ready to see you proved wrong!! I think secretly she yearns for that! Is that good or bad? I'm not sure yet...
 
Ok, I may get slack for this but my husband and I always joke that we want our daughter to be doing level 4 for 35 hours a week in high school so we don't have to deal with the boyfriend thing. We don't care if she progresses through the levels quickly, we just want her to have something to do that she loves and is so busy and loving it that she doesn't even give boys a second look in highschool. We are on our second teenage girl and we have to constantly deal with boys. Oh, they keep us on our toes.
 
LOL
actually I agree with you. DD is now 18, Sr in HS and L10. While there has been some interest in boys it has always been low key. She does have a date this coming weekend for homecoming, but i could probably count on my fingers the total number of dates she has had over the years. Gym as always come first (after school, of course). When you really look at this, its not the boy thing that matters as much as the fact that the time that she has dedicated to gym has meant less time not spent in the mall, watching tv, etc. The whole gym experience has been had a major impact on her growning up and I am very proud of the poised and confident young lady that she has become. I credit a lot of this to gym and to her coaches. Good luck to you.
 
Shelovesthebars and Gymdad2.. you are both sooooo right!! My DD is now 15 and is doing o.k. w/her gymnastics... She's had her share of injuries, is dealing with mental blocks (again), but she works hard, loves it and most important... IT KEEPS HER OUT OF TROUBLE!!! And that's MY biggest reason why I want her to stick with it! I've raised 2 boys who were NOT involved in anything when they were in high school... and let's just say they had too much free time! They both straightened up and one's just graduated from college, and the other is at a top school in Williamsburg, VA, so it's worked out o.k.... but I just want DD to avoid any kind of trouble and stay focused on school (first) and gymnastics (second)! Oh, she will be going to homecoming this month, but with a group of friends! I love it!
 
For those comparing trampoline and tumbling to gymnastics it is like comparing apples to oranges. I love both sports and I doubt trampoline and tumbling to be easy but it is way different. Unless the kid is very little or has some fear you can train a monkey to do levels 1-4 in trampoline, the hardest thing about level 5 is a pullover and a front tuck, all you need for level 6 is a back tuck and back pike, not that those things are not hard but I have seen little fearless kids pick them up very quickly. It is very common to move multiple levels in a year in that sport. I would find it odd a child would have all the required regular gymnastic skills for level 6 in a matter of months of starting. Trampoline also makes life easier on regular gymnasts who want to pursue it or people coming back as you can begin competeting at level 7 and move score out of up to 2 level a meet. I know you cannot do that in regular gymnastics, two totally separate worlds.

Actually you can score out of multiple levels at an artistic meet if you are prepared.

And fearless doesn't equate to kickout, to slap-sliding properly, to riding the bounce, or to anything really at all on tumbling until a coach steps away and says "you do it". Fearless doesn't necessarily get the mobility scores.

A very strong kid could have level 6 WAG skills in a year, if she wasn't training routines. That's not necessarily as fast as that same kid could have level 6 T&T on all events, but it's still theoretically doable.
 
Oh I hear you on the boyfriend thing! my older dd is a teen and coping very nicely. Younger dd is a different kettle of fish. She is going to need to be soooooo busy to keep out of trouble. lol. Gymnastics will have many and varied positives for her.
 

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