WAG New USAIGC rules

[Mrs. Puma]

Since there are not too many USAIGCers, I thought I’d just piggyback this new info on this thread if that’s ok. I was told Worlds would be in New Orleans next year, but apparently it’s Nashville. Who knew?! Lol

 

[KipWinger]

Since there are not too many USAIGCers, I thought I’d just piggyback this new info on this thread if that’s ok. I was told Worlds would be in New Orleans next year, but apparently it’s Nashville. Who knew?! Lol
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That is so funny! I had heard it was going to be in Phoenix. Thanks for posting this!

 

[aspiringymnastmom]

I am new to USAIGC - can someone explain Worlds to me? How does one qualify? My daughter will be a C1.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I am new to USAIGC - can someone explain Worlds to me? How does one qualify? My daughter will be a C1.

You can qualify to Worlds from States or Regionals. For CI last season it was only a 30.5, but the new rules are not online yet. Scroll to page 6 for Worlds info, but again this is from last year. Good luck! http://usaigc.com/SitePDFs/USAIGC RULES & POLICY BOOK 2017.pdf

 

[Mrs. Puma]

2018/2019 rules are up: http://usaigc.com/SitePDFs/USAIGC RULES & POLICY BOOK 2018.pdf

 

[NY Dad]

aspiringymnastmom, welcome to USAIGC. If you don't mind me asking, is this the beginning of your dd's competitive career or was she previously on another track?

I'm rarely in a position to provide anything other than my opinion. Even though Mrs. Puma already answered the question I'll provide a little more detail. This is based on the 2018-19 rules:

Copper One
28.5 0 AA from Local to qualify for State Championship *
29.5 0AA from State to qualify for Regional Championship
30.5 0AA from State or Regional Championship to qualify for World Championship (as Mrs. Puma wrote)

* Gymnasts who do not attain a 28.00AA DO NOT have to move to Copper 2

Hopefully I'm not offending anyone by saying that I agree that if you can't get a 28 at a meet, you're not ready to move up. If you get a 28 you are required to move to Copper Two.

My understanding is that if you're dd is sick or there's some other extenuating circumstance which prevents her from getting 30.5 her coach can petition her to still qualify for Worlds.

All Around Gymnasts not qualifying to their All Around State Championship may enter the State/Regional Championship as an Individual Event Specialist on a maximum of two events if they have scored the individual event qualification score once in an USAIGC Sanctioned Qualification Meet.

Individual Event Specialists Qualification Scores:
8.0 per event from Local to qualify for State/Regional Championship
8.5 per event from State/Regional to qualify for World Championship


Since your dd hasn't even started competing yet it's probably a little early to start worrying about this (not that I didn't worry about it a year ago )

 

[aspiringymnastmom]

aspiringymnastmom, welcome to USAIGC. If you don't mind me asking, is this the beginning of your dd's competitive career or was she previously on another track?

I'm rarely in a position to provide anything other than my opinion. Even though Mrs. Puma already answered the question I'll provide a little more detail. This is based on the 2018-19 rules:

Copper One
28.5 0 AA from Local to qualify for State Championship *
29.5 0AA from State to qualify for Regional Championship
30.5 0AA from State or Regional Championship to qualify for World Championship (as Mrs. Puma wrote)

* Gymnasts who do not attain a 28.00AA DO NOT have to move to Copper 2

Hopefully I'm not offending anyone by saying that I agree that if you can't get a 28 at a meet, you're not ready to move up. If you get a 28 you are required to move to Copper Two.

My understanding is that if you're dd is sick or there's some other extenuating circumstance which prevents her from getting 30.5 her coach can petition her to still qualify for Worlds.

All Around Gymnasts not qualifying to their All Around State Championship may enter the State/Regional Championship as an Individual Event Specialist on a maximum of two events if they have scored the individual event qualification score once in an USAIGC Sanctioned Qualification Meet.

Individual Event Specialists Qualification Scores:
8.0 per event from Local to qualify for State/Regional Championship
8.5 per event from State/Regional to qualify for World Championship


Since your dd hasn't even started competing yet it's probably a little early to start worrying about this (not that I didn't worry about it a year ago )

I have 2 DDs. One is doing USAG - Level 4 (she has been competing for the past 2 years). My younger one was on track to compete Level 2 this year, but we moved her to USAIGC. So far it seems to be a fantastic fit for her. My younger DD has never competed. I was curious about Worlds, because there is no such thing at lower levels in USAG. Sounds fun!

Thank you both for the info. I love the rule book and how everything is laid out! USAG deductions are still totally a mystery to me!

 

[NY Dad]

There are very few USAIGCers around here so it's nice to see someone new join the ranks.

My dd was at level 2 for a year (her gym didn't compete at level 2). She switched gyms and moved to USAIGC. She was Copper 1 last year and (as far as I know) she's going to be Copper 2 this year.

USAIGC has been great for my dd, but don't get too excited about all of the information. Unless something drastic changed, the rules listed are inconsistent, unclear and my understanding is that sometimes they're not enforced. Also, JO has a set of rules somewhere that you would be able to analyze if you wanted.

I've tried, and I'm sure I won't be able to stop myself from continuing to try to understand deductions, but so far I've had very little success. If you aren't able to understand deductions for USAG, you're probably not going to be able understand them for USAIGC. If you ever feel like you do, I've got a bunch of videos I'd like to send you so that you can explain them to me LOL.

 

[KipWinger]

If you get a 28 you are required to move to Copper Two.

Yes, aspiringgymnastmom, welcome to USAIGC! It's been great for my DD. She joined in the 2016/17 season as C1.

In my experience, most gyms will hold their Copper 1s back with AA scores much higher than 28.0--often at 35 or so. USAIGC is pretty big in my state and many gymnasts do 2 years at C1 before moving to C2. Two years in C1 may be even more frequent now that there's more of a differentiation between C1 and C2 (new vault, possibility for bar change, cartwheel on beam).

 

[Deleted member 18037]

In my experience, most gyms will hold their Copper 1s back with AA scores much higher than 28.0--often at 35

That’s crazy. And we have done IGC, just crazy.

 

[NY Dad]

In my experience, most gyms will hold their Copper 1s back with AA scores much higher than 28.0--often at 35 or so.

How does the gym explain this to the parents? How would any girl benefit from being held at Copper 1?

Copper 1 has no upgrades. Last year the only difference between Copper 1 and Copper 2 was that the girls were allowed to do a BHS and floor in Copper 2 and not Copper 1. And (I thought) Copper 1 is just for the first year of competition.

I’m really just trying to understand.

 

[KipWinger]

How does the gym explain this to the parents? How would any girl benefit from being held at Copper 1?

Copper 1 has no upgrades. Last year the only difference between Copper 1 and Copper 2 was that the girls were allowed to do a BHS and floor in Copper 2 and not Copper 1. And (I thought) Copper 1 is just for the first year of competition.

I’m really just trying to understand.

I understand your concerns. I wouldn’t have been too happy if my DD repeated C1. However, I think there may be reasons for lower-scoring C1s to repeat the level. Just a bit of background: at our State meet, there were >200 C1s. The median AA score was 36.0. Only 3 of the >200 girls who competed all 4 events scored <32. For C2s, about 1/3 scored 37 or higher. Of course, these scores may be artificially high because so many repeat C1.

Nonetheless, given these stats, some parents might appreciate giving their lower-scoring daughter another year in C1 to boost their confidence, improve their skills and scores, and increase their likelihood of placing. It’s possible that some kids may be less likely to leave the sport if they’re given this chance to “succeed.” Some of these girls are very young and one of IGC’s goals is to maximize longevity in the sport.

One of the benefits of IGC is that mobility is usually left up to the coaches (unless they score out of the level). Some coaches don’t move kids from C1 to C2 if they don’t have their BH. Some gyms also encourage their C1 and C2s to do slightly different skills…in our gym, C1s usually do a half turn and C2s do a full turn on the floor. Also, in our gym, bar dismounts are different between the two levels, jumps on beam are different, and handstands on beam need to be closer to vertical in C2 vs C1. Of course, each gym is different.

That said, I’m just providing the counterargument. I don’t think that girls should necessarily be held back if they are lower scoring. I just think in IGC, as in USAG, level placement depends on a variety of factors, including scores.

 

[NY Dad]

KipWinger,

I understand that you, like me, are just a parent and that you aren’t making this decision. I’m most likely the only Copper parent at my dd’s gym that has read the USAIGC rules. For the other parents, if the gym tells them that everyone holds their Copper 1’s back until they’re getting 35s, they have no reason not to believe the gym. From my perspective, many/most gyms (at least in our area) appear to follow the rules. Based on my dd’s season as a Copper 1, it appeared as though the large majority of kids my dd competed against (and all the Copper 1’s on her team) were competing for the first time.

One of the benefits of IGC is that mobility is usually left up to the coaches

Per the rules, the move to Copper 2 from Copper 1 is required if the gymnast attains a 28.00 during the season.

some parents might appreciate giving their lower-scoring daughter another year in C1 to boost their confidence, improve their skills and scores, and increase their likelihood of placing. It’s possible that some kids may be less likely to leave the sport if they’re given this chance to “succeed.” Some of these girls are very young and one of IGC’s goals is to maximize longevity in the sport.

I’m not clear if they’re defining low scoring as getting 35 once in a season or consistently getting a 35 in their first year of competition. (If you said that your dds gym holds the girls back if they didn't attain a 32 once in the season I might understand, but 35??)
If all the teams followed the rules there would be a level playing field, wouldn’t that accomplish the same goal? Wouldn’t holding them an extra year at Copper 2 accomplish the same goal? Especially now that there are upgrades available in Copper 2. They still get a 10 start value without the upgrades.

I hope you can see it from the other perspective. My dd had a meet early last season where it was clear that some/many of the copper 1s that were competing were repeaters and guess what?, they crushed our girls. I’m sure that was a great confidence boost for the teams with repeaters. Many of the girls on my dd’s team had their best performances, highest scores at that meet and they didn’t even medal.

Many skills that are required in Bronze aren’t included in Copper 2. It’s very possible that girls that are scoring 36s or 37 in Copper 2 still don’t have all the skills they need for Bronze so the high scores in Copper 2 make sense to me. After Copper 1 there are no rules about required move-ups unless they get over 36.4 (Bronze to Diamond) or a 37.85 twice for all other levels.

 

[KipWinger]

KipWinger,

I understand that you, like me, are just a parent and that you aren’t making this decision. I’m most likely the only Copper parent at my dd’s gym that has read the USAIGC rules. For the other parents, if the gym tells them that everyone holds their Copper 1’s back until they’re getting 35s, they have no reason not to believe the gym. From my perspective, many/most gyms (at least in our area) appear to follow the rules. Based on my dd’s season as a Copper 1, it appeared as though the large majority of kids my dd competed against (and all the Copper 1’s on her team) were competing for the first time.

Per the rules, the move to Copper 2 from Copper 1 is required if the gymnast attains a 28.00 during the season.


I’m not clear if they’re defining low scoring as getting 35 once in a season or consistently getting a 35 in their first year of competition. (If you said that your dds gym holds the girls back if they didn't attain a 32 once in the season I might understand, but 35??)
If all the teams followed the rules there would be a level playing field, wouldn’t that accomplish the same goal? Wouldn’t holding them an extra year at Copper 2 accomplish the same goal? Especially now that there are upgrades available in Copper 2. They still get a 10 start value without the upgrades.

I hope you can see it from the other perspective. My dd had a meet early last season where it was clear that some/many of the copper 1s that were competing were repeaters and guess what?, they crushed our girls. I’m sure that was a great confidence boost for the teams with repeaters. Many of the girls on my dd’s team had their best performances, highest scores at that meet and they didn’t even medal.

Many skills that are required in Bronze aren’t included in Copper 2. It’s very possible that girls that are scoring 36s or 37 in Copper 2 still don’t have all the skills they need for Bronze so the high scores in Copper 2 make sense to me. After Copper 1 there are no rules about required move-ups unless they get over 36.4 (Bronze to Diamond) or a 37.85 twice for all other levels.

I agree with you on all accounts--I'm just explaining the context in my state. When my DD first competed C1 last year I know she competed against 2nd and 3rd year C1s and the competition was a bit demoralizing. I don't think that rule is followed in my state and I wanted to provide perspective. And yes, if all gyms moved the girls up after 1 year, that would accomplish the same goal. I'm curious...in your gym, are all of last year's C1s moving to C2? And are the C1 scores generally lower in your state than in my state?

 

[Mrs. Puma]

I have some numbers...hold on!

 

[Mrs. Puma]

And are the C1 scores generally lower in your state than in my state?

Ok, short answer, yes. In NY we have both Upstate and Downstate State meets. This is Upstate info because that’s where NYDad’s DD was, but I could analyze Downstate as well (because I’m a nerd lol).Downstate does tend to be a little more competitive in my opinion. There were 64 CIs and the mean was 35.2785. There were six above 37, and three below 32. And to be honest, I think this was a pretty gently scored meet. At least for Bronze. For Worlds I didn’t actually do the average, but of 138 CIs, there were only eighteen above 36 (eight above 37) and there were fourteen below 32. I will say that most kids at Worlds were from either my State or KipWinger’s for what that’s worth.

 

[Mrs. Puma]

For NY Downstate, there was 200 CI and only one was above 37. Nine were above 36 and eight were below 32. So yes, KipWinger’s State does have higher CI scores than NY. Thanks for letting me nerd LOL

 

[NY Dad]

I'm curious...in your gym, are all of last year's C1s moving to C2?

When my dd joined her gym as a Copper 1, I was told that the move to Copper 2 was virtually automatic. My initial reaction after I read your post was to question whether or not this might have changed. The more I think about it, I didn't see why that would change. I see the upgrades in Copper 2 as a reason to stay in Copper 2 not a reason to stay in Copper 1. Nothing changed in Copper 1.

I don't know for a fact what my dd's gym is doing, but I'm under the impression that they are all moving to Copper 2.

 

[John]

Hey guys. When Dani did copper1 she did it one year and one year only. She scored ok getting over 37. That was 2015. Now that she is in USAG and 11 she still manages a few 37's she has potential but unrealized at this time. I guess my point is everyone should follow the rules and don't let those that don't get you down cause, in the end, it all evens out as the levels progress.

worlds 2015
http://www.meetscoresonline.com/R17295

Best Meet of the Year
http://www.mymeetscores.com/meet.pl?meetid=53741&gymnastid=21366295