Not really a question, but gotta say regarding parents

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monkeysmom

There is a whole lot of criticism of gymnastics parents in general on this board.

Me being new to the board, relatively new to gymnastics, just gotta say. The vast majority of parents with kids involved in gymnastics seem to me to be cool people, flexible, supportive and definitely more laid back than most of my friends when it comes to their kids.

My daughter is seven and has a number of friends who have not had a sleepover at a friends's house, whose moms are very careful about who they leave their kids with, show they play with, what actitivies they do, food they eat etc etc. I'm not knocking that at all, I'm a little that way myself. Many of those friends would be blown away by what gymnastics parents deal with and accept as normal. My daughter loves gymnastics and I wholeheartedly support her in it, but part of me is certainly jealous of my sister in law whose daughter is a soccer standout, she gets to go to fun games, sit in the sunshine, chat, hang out with other parents. So does my sister whose kids are involved in hockey and soccer, they have a lot of fun at games and tournaments. My daughter picked a sport where there is very little communication from the coaches to parents, you don't watch practices and turn your kids over to coaches you barely know for hours.

My daughter won't be in a meet for quite a while, all I do is pretty much write checks and drive a lot. Recreational programs and the money those parents pay make the gyms and team programs possible, yet there is another weird thing, they are often not acknowledged at all at our gym by team personnel/coaches and athletes while occupying the same physical space, it's weird--so my hats off to those kids and parents as well because they play a unrecognized pivotal role at the gym and many of their kids love the sport. Seems these kids would be potentially some of the biggest gymnastics fans, including being fans of the higher level teams girls at their gym, but the connection there, at least at our gym in terms of unifying spirit is, well, nonexistent. No flyers even went out to the rec girls to come and cheer or watch the gym's own home meet (it's in a big venue with lots or room). Discounts to the national championships were not offered or even mentioned to the rec girls. Come on, any sport needs more fans not less, what better potential and future fans are there out there than kids who are participating in it?

This is such a strange insular sport even within the same four walls! To sum up, in my observation, gymnastics parents (in whatever shape and form) are a pretty amazing and supportive bunch, and by definition are more laid back than most other parents I know, not less. You gotta be to just function as a parent in this sport. I'm still waiting for the fun part for me! I went to a friend's son's baseball game during my daughter's practice last week just to enjoy watching some kids play a sport--it was wonderful and yep I'm jealous!!
 
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There is a whole lot of criticism of gymnastics parents in general on this board. Me being new to the board, relatively new to gymnastics, just gotta say. The vast majority of parents with kids involved in gymnastics seem to me to be cool people, flexible, supportive and definitely more laid back than most of my friends when it comes to their kids. My daughter is seven and has a number of friends who have not had a sleepover at a friends's house, whose moms are very careful about who they leave their kids with, show they play with, what actitivies they do, food they eat etc etc. I'm not knocking that at all, I'm a little that way myself. Many of those friends would be blown away by what gymnastics parents deal with and accept as normal. My daughter loves gymnastics and I wholeheartedly support her in it, but part of me is certainly jealous of my sister in law whose daughter is a soccer standout, she gets to go to fun games, sit in the sunshine, chat, hang out with other parents. So does my sister whose kids are involved in hockey and soccer, they have a lot of fun at games and tournaments. My daughter picked a sport where there is very little communication from the coaches to parents, you don't watch practices and turn your kids over to coaches you barely know for hours. My daughter won't be in a meet for quite a while, all I do is pretty much write checks and drive a lot. Recreational programs and the money those parents pay make the gyms and team programs possible, yet there is another weird thing, they are often not acknowledged at all at our gym by team personnel/coaches and athletes while occupying the same physical space, it's weird--so my hats off to those kids and parents as well because they play a unrecognized pivotal role at the gym and many of their kids love the sport. Seems these kids would be potentially some of the biggest gymnastics fans, including being fans of the higher level teams girls at their gym, but the connection there, at least at our gym in terms of unifying spirit is, well, nonexistent. No flyers even went out to the rec girls to come and cheer or watch the gym's own home meet (it's in a big venue with lots or room). Discounts to the national championships were not offered or even mentioned to the rec girls. Come on, any sport needs more fans not less, what better potential and future fans are there out there than kids who are participating in it? This is such a strange insular sport even within the same four walls! To sum up, in my observation, gymnastics parents (in whatever shape and form) are a pretty amazing and supportive bunch, and by definition are more laid back than most other parents I know, not less. You gotta be to just function as a parent in this sport. I'm still waiting for the fun part for me! I went to a friend's son's baseball game during my daughter's practice last week just to enjoy watching some kids play a sport--it was wonderful and yep I'm jealous!!

i agree with 100% what should be done to promote from within the gym. it is unfortunate that it sounds like your gym does nothing. that is not the norm.

for the rest, gymnastics is a hard sport. it's a long process. it's not as simple as kicking a ball, hitting a puck or throwing a ball. if your daughter 'gets there' your time will come. and your experience should be as similar as your sister & sister in law.:)

i thought i would throw this is in just for thought and because you have little to no experience in the sport of gymnastics at the moment. and i mean that in a good respectful way. truth be told, there is really nothing to communicate. and you can't understand or believe how many times a week a parent asks the coach "how is my kid doing" or "when will suzie learn her kip". this goes on week after week after week and ad infinitum for coaches and owners. and the anwsers to these questions are repetitive and redundant week after week. progress is measured in months and years in gymnastics. most people just can't accept this.

what the coaches really want to say can't be said cause everyone would be out of business. truth is, gymnastics is really really hard. and as humans we weren't made for it in the short term. everyone that comes in to it sucks. it's a level playing field for every child. no one has any introductory or rudimentary skills. and gymnastics does not discriminate. gymnastics eats you up and spits you out. if the other activities had as many proficiency levels as gymnastics does worldwide, the complaints would all be the same. maybe 1 johnny sits on the bench cause he's the worst on the team. and 1 million kids can't compete on a gymnastics floor cause they might get killed. figuratively speaking of course.

now compare that with other activities. everyone knows how to run. kick. throw. hit. yes, there are varying degrees of abilities in these other activities yet almost EVERYONE gets to play.

Gymnastics says,

"NONE OF YOU GET TO PLAY UNTIL YOU REACH A LEVEL OF PROFICIENCY & INDEPENDENT AUTONOMY ALONG WITH THE PHYSICAL AND MENTAL PREPAREDNESS REQUIRED AND ASSESSED BY TRAINERS THAT WILL AFFORD YOU THE MAXIMUM AMOUNT OF SAFETY EDUCATION IN YOUR LIKELY PARTICIPATION IN A SPORT WHERE MOST OF YOU WILL NEVER ACHIEVE A FINAL DESTINATION."

"FOR AS LONG AS YOU WANT TO LEARN, AND LEARN NEW AND MORE DIFFICULT SKILLS, I WILL MAKE YOU WORK AS HARD AS THE FIRST DAY YOU CAME TO ME TO LEARN YOUR KIP."

"I WILL NEVER RELENT. TELL PARENTS THAT THIS AIN'T BASEBALL, SOCCER. ETC; GYMNASTICS HAS LESS ATHLETES THAN ANY OTHER ACTIVITY. AND THAT I, GYMNASTICS, WILL REVEAL TO YOU WHY OVER TIME."

i've known Gymnastics for a long time. he/she is a tough cookie. and coaches really don't want to talk about just how hard it is. it might scare everyone away. so give coaches a break on this one. they have a difficult task.:)
 
From what I can tell your post seems interesting and I would love to reply but my eyes are blurry from trying to read a huge run on paragraph. ;) Can you edit it and seperate it out a bit?
 
. gymnastics eats you up and spits you out.

Gymnastics says,

GYMNASTICS SAYS, "FOR AS LONG AS YOU WANT TO LEARN, AND LEARN NEW AND MORE DIFFICULT SKILLS, I WILL MAKE YOU WORK AS HARD AS THE FIRST DAY YOU CAME TO ME TO LEARN YOUR KIP."

GYMNASTICS SAYS "I WILL NEVER RELENT.

And there's the hook that the kids get and the parents sometimes get. The life of the modern American child can be so boring. Kids, smart kids, intense kids, kids that could drink in the whole world before breakfast and never be full and never be tired NEED this sport. It is for many the only true challenge in their life.
 
And there's the hook that the kids get and the parents sometimes get. The life of the modern American child can be so boring. Kids, smart kids, intense kids, kids that could drink in the whole world before breakfast and never be full and never be tired NEED this sport. It is for many the only true challenge in their life.

You just articulated so perfectly what I love about this sport. My DD comes out of gym with a "high" no matter what kind of day she had skillwise.
 
There is a whole lot of criticism of gymnastics parents in general on this board.

There is also a huge amount of support, and tons of information for the new gym parent. I think what you may see is the people who have been around the block a few times, so to speak, saying one thing. Then the noobs saying another, every board is like that. But let me just add in the grand scheme of on-line discussions this one is VERY tame.

If anyone is offended they can PM the mods and we will look into their issue.

I edited your post to add some paragraphs, it is very hard to read a big mass of lines and most people just give up. The use of punctuation is very important here, and one of our top rules.
 
I think I see what your saying. My DD also did community soccer & T-ball & they were more parent driven sports. I had to help do a lot of organizing of snack day, picture day, scheduling & rescheduling for rain dates, etc. Parents were expected to be involved from day one. You got to know all of the other parents and it was a social & work thing for the parents as well as the kids.

I think what you are sensing here is what gymnastics really boils down to. It's about the gymnast right from the start. The gymnast is running her OWN marathon right from day one. A marathon only she can run...her parents can't do it for her. It's not really about the parent, except as a taxi driver & bill payer & cheerleader;). The most important things a gym parent can do is trust the coaches, let them work their magic & have the patience of a saint:). Gymnastics is a long but very worth while haul:D!!!

Later, when she's on the team, you will be more involved with commuting to meets arranging travel plans, helping to run home meets, etc.

But what this sport really boils down to is the gymnast & her drive, ability & LOVE of the sport.

If as a parent would like a more friendly, social atmosphere at the gym, I say go for it!!! You have to be a friend to have friends right? Get planning & organizing. Plan play dates & social get togethers among your DD's friends(teammates/class mates) & their parents outside of gym:D! I'm sure it would be appreciated by all. One mom at our gym held a "mom's night out Bunko party" at her home & we all had a blast!!!

Also, you should make your suggestions about the rec. girls & the home meet etc. to the gym management or the team parents club. Maybe you've hit on something they just haven't thought of. And I'm sure any help in offering in running a home meet wouldn't be refused;)! The team parents probably don't ask or involve rec parents, because they don't want the rec. parents to feel put upon. If you'd like to be more involved in the gym I'm sure there are places you'd be welcomed with open arms!!! Just remember since gymnastic is year round(unlike many seasonal sports) there may be times when your help might be needed & other times when there just isn't much going on(as far as meets, etc).

I just got 2 e-mails today from random gym parents(not coaches or officers in the parent club or anything) just asking about interest in going to an amusement park this summer. I'd leave the gymnastics to your DD & her coaches;). And offer to help out the gym in a more social way. Let the powers at be know your interested in being more involved, make sure no one has a problem with it. You may even find out your gym would love to have someone like you step up & organize some fun social stuff:cool:. There's only a rift if you let there be a rift. I made friends with another mom at DD's gym 10yrs ago!!! Before our girls were even on team. We have gone through so much together not even related to gymnastics at this point! We are friends & I know we will still be friends once our girls are graduated & done with this sport:D! I wish friendships like that & a love of this sport (like my DD still has at 16yrs old) for all of you & your DD's!!!
 
And there's the hook that the kids get and the parents sometimes get. The life of the modern American child can be so boring. Kids, smart kids, intense kids, kids that could drink in the whole world before breakfast and never be full and never be tired NEED this sport. It is for many the only true challenge in their life.

NTO you hit the nail on the head! No matter how tough this sport is some kids THRIVE on the constant challenge. There is ALWAYS another challenge!!! It takes a special type of person to thrive on that constant year round challege that never lets up. As soon as one skill is mastered, it's on to the next bigger, harder skill. It's never ending there's always another skill to master. My DD was the star of her soccer & T-ball teams as a young child. Now as a teen she is an honors student taking AP classes & has broke school records in track. She has said these exact words to me... "Gymnastics is the ONLY thing that really challenges me":cool:.
 
I think what you are sensing here is what gymnastics really boils down to. It's about the gymnast right from the start. The gymnast is running her OWN marathon right from day one. A marathon only she can run...her parents can't do it for her. It's not really about the parent, except as a taxi driver & bill payer & cheerleader;). The most important things a gym parent can do is trust the coaches, let them work their magic & have the patience of a saint:). Gymnastics is a long but very worth while haul:D!!!

But what this sport really boils down to is the gymnast & her drive, ability & LOVE of the sport.

Very well said, and my testament exactly from the day my oldest set foot on a gym floor. But I get what the OP was also trying to say. Sometimes 'team' parents CAN sound elitest, and I agree that 'We all should find a way to get along.' I've noted it from parents who are also non-team to team, etc. I think some people are just wired to formulate opinions before they really get a view of the entire picture. Aside from watching my DD do what drives her, I do enjoy just 'shooting' the breeze with ANY parent. The wise info. I get from those I converse with has helped in many avenues of my life. ;)
Reading an earlier post about involving gymnasts in ballet, etc., I walked into the dance studio that is located next door to DD's gym. It was quite nice when the lady behind the counter invited me to their next recital, so DD could see what they are all about. That was exciting! DD was equally excited to check it out!!:D
 
I totally agree! As a newbie, it is very off-putting. I love the support and input, but am disappointed by the criticism.

Really, in 8 posts you have complained twice about this. This is a discussion forum, not a cheer squad. Excuse me for being cranky, but it is tiresome reading complaints from people who want free information from people who are willing to share.

Can you tell me where You have been criticized, I haven't seen it, and now I am curious. We tend to stop that behavior in it's tracks, so please illuminate me.
 
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I totally agree! As a newbie, it is very off-putting. I love the support and input, but am disappointed by the criticism.

Well, to be honest, the sport of gymnastics is full of criticism from the beginning to the end. This sport is judged and unlike "game" sports like football, basketball, soccer, baseball, etc. The individual will be critiqued over and over and over again. Dunno said it best in his post about what the sport of gymnastics is. For good or for bad, the coaches will critique, as will about everybody who watching. This is NOT a sport for people who can't handle criticism. Gymnastics parents and gymnasts have to grow a tough skin or they won't survive in this sport. JMO :)
 
i prefer to call it guidance and constructive advice.:)

Okay, dunno, I will take it as such! :) Your post on my other thread did make me feel like a complete idiot, to be honest. I was so embarrassed I tried to delete it but couldn't. Guess I should stop taking message board posts so personally... :eek:

Between that and several other gym mom rants (mostly by gym moms!) that had me angry, I was trying to to stick up for the OP here by agreeing with her. I wasn't meaning any specific person, just the general feel for the boards I've received since I joined (admittedly mere days). I didn't mean to come across as a whiny b---, but maybe I did.

Sorry if I offended anyone. I think I'll shut up for a while and take it all in. Don't want to put my foot in my mouth again so soon...
 
Krystan,

Welcome to CB & sorry you feel this way, you have to remember there are many parents that post here involved in gymnastics at all different ages & stages. While some posts may be about the joys of L4 and first meets, others may involve the troubles of getting the kip, getting and loosing a giant, gym changes, and fear issues or quiting. I've been here probably about 5 years now and coming to CB is like reading a book but becoming impatient in the middle and reading ahead to the last page. The excitment about finding out what happens at the end, but not quite understanding how the storyline changed to get there because I didn't read those in between pages. You want to share about your expeience now and want to find a connection & bond with other going thru the same thing. You will! You will also stay up late at night reading all about anything and everything else gymnastics related trying to figure out how to understand this sport and taking a peek ahead at what may lie ahead for your child. I know I have done that too! But some parents here speak from experience, lots of it. I have received some great advice from parents of children that were in the sport longer, coaches that post here, or parents that have BTDT. But the longer you are involved in the sport, the less you will think of some of these posts as criticism, but more of honest feedback from well respected people. Life is about learning, and the best reponses are not always they ones that agree with us. Sometimes I see things one way, but a more seasoned veteran of gymnastics who has experienced it beforehand has made me see things in a different light. Keep on posting and sharing, there is always someone out there that you are touching, even if they haven't registered as a regular user. And brags are encouraged & equally enoyed by L2 parents up to L10 ones! I assure you, you will find many more posts that are positive than negative. Keep on reading!
 
well please, don't shut up. this is what discussion should take place here. and believe me, this board is NOTHING compared to a couple of other boards. and some of them you can't get in. so, remember that we can't see each other. no facial expressions. no inflection. just the written word. some are opinions, some we agree to disagree and some fact based that can't be changed or influenced. it is what it is. i mean i got somebody speaking latin to me and when he doesn't know that i'm so old that it was that language that we learned in parochial school when i grew up. or that some of us just might actually be experts and know what we're talking about. but since some of us can't reveal who we are, you must trust or bust.

i have stayed here this long cause everyone is polite for the most part. and i have been called arrogant before. but i guess my own parents must be arrogant also as they have so much more wisdom than i.:) i have stayed here because it is not a gossip cesspool. and i believe that i have something to offer this community. i don't believe that insiders in my industry will tell you the way it is as i have done. i have supported parents when they say their owners and coaches are spitwads and i'll defend my profession to the end if they are right and are misjudged because the parent doesn't understand what gymnastics is and what is all involved.

as others here know, i started gymnastics in my youth as an almost 9 year old. that was 1964. i have a reference. and i had mentors that most have never heard of outside of gymnastics. and this includes coaches born after 1980. a lot happened between 1960 and 1980. the majority don't know why the communist manifesto led to the rise of gymnastics excellence in the eastern bloc. and the majority don't know why they fell. and why is an arabian called an arabian?

i have one of the longest opened clubs in the united states. the industry knows who i am outside of this site. but they know because the kids are famous so to speak. not because i'm anyone special. it's the kids that are special. understand? even i remember the names of the 76 olympic team. but i would have to look up who the olympic coaches were. but i won't have to look up who coaches them. well maybe lately cause my mind is naturally aging.:) think for a moment how many kids and how many parents i must've dealt with over the years. imagine for a moment just how many times i've been asked "when will suzie learn her kip". think. for a moment, just think of all the kids that i have seen injured. think how many times i must've been injured (including breaking my neck c4 & c5) and how many times i might have been told by doctors and my own parents that i had to quit. think for a moment how many competitions i have been to in total both as an athlete and coach. think. think how many throw up messes i must've cleaned up over the years. and how many children i watched pick their nose and wipe it to the floor ex carpet. or how many times i have cleaned toilets. vacuumed. cleaned mirrors. spotted kips. spotted 4 year old forward rolls. spotted giants while the athletes sweat dripped down on me (or was it pee) cause they were so scared. all of the disappointment of sport i have experienced both as an athlete and as a coach. all the tears that i have seen both happy and sad. all the crazy parents i have witnessed. and all the genuinely thankful parents who were just happy to be a part of what we do and the excitement that it brought their children. all the college scholarships. all of the baptisms. bar mitvahs and bat mitvahs. the graduation parties. their marriages. the wakes and funerals of their parents. and the unfortunate and untimely deaths of a few of our own athletes and those of other gyms.

i could go on and on. i am sincere when i post to this site. if i make you feel anything/something it was for a good cause. nothing personal from my end. no agenda. just plain experience coming from a gymnastics road well travelled. and to the younger coaches, yes, it might appear that sometimes i sound arrogant.

and finally, offended is what you would know and feel if you were on a couple of other sites that some of us know about. i have never sensed that here. this site is a pretty diverse community and from several different countries. the beauty of gymnastics is its universal embrace. suzie's mom is asking the same questions from canada to croatia.:) good night.
 
My #1 rule for any forum of any topic - take everything you read with a grain of salt and you have to have thick skin.

I have been around this board for a little while now and my dd has risen through the levels over the years. The way I look at this board now is completely different than I did when I first joined. I no longer post my dd's meet reports on the Parent's forum, nor do I really start any threads, but I do read the board everyday and really just respond to threads that have been created by others. I try to relay to others what I have lived through already in this crazy sport. DD is now 14 and just finished her 1st yr of L9. She did compete at Easterns and is now training L10. Our family has been involved with this sport for over 10 yrs now. We are a rare breed in that dd has only been at 1 gym EVER.

When dd was a level 4 or 5, I couldn't understand why the Optional parents were so laid back and just accepted the crazy way things worked in the gym. To me, as a full-time professional myself, I considered the gym "fantasyland." The lack of communication, what appeared to me to be un-organization just never would cut it in the "real" world. BUT, as long as dd was progressing, still loving gym and happy then I kept my mouth shut. I usually just let things ride and only speak up when safety is an issue. I have had 2 conversations with the HC over the 10 yrs about safety and each time, my thoughts have prevailed. I will admit 1 conversation was heated, but it was needed at the time.

I have very strong relationships with my fellow Moms. We are a tight knit group, for outsiders we probably do come off as such. We understand each other, we know what each other is going through. We can talk about our girls injuries, skill accomplishments and goals without people looking at us like we had 3 heads. My dd's teammates are just as close as us Moms are. It's a good group. They are competitive with each other (we had 12 girls on our L9 team this past season.) They were the L9 State Team Champions. Every one of them walk out onto the competition floor and feel like they can win every event and AA. BUT when they don't and another teammate does, they are just as excited for them. We cheer each others girls on and are genuinely happy and excited when they hit a fabulous routine. We are also sad and console each other when one of the girls fall or doesn't have her best meet.

The bonds that have been built between the girls and us Moms are life lasting. The girls do tons of things together outside the gym. It has basically been that was from the beginning. It's so easy because the girls all have the same crazy schedule and are off at the same times. Just next weekend, we are hosting a "Pre-Surgery Bash" pool party and sleepover. My dd is scheduled for surgery on 6/21 for her elbow, due to the gym. Not many outside of the gym would understand this kind of party, but the girls are looking forward to it and are excited.

I do not consider what I write on this board as criticism, just my view point. As a reader, you can take it or leave it. But for a newbie, I am someone who have traveled down the road that they are now starting to walk.
 
Granny Smith, Blackie and Dunno that is what the CB is meant to be, thanks for putting it into such great words for me. I had the day from hell yesterday add that to Baby Bogs recovery from surgery and I just had had enough and reacted defensively.

Krystan this board is awesome, I have been heavily invloved here for years and some of the friendships I have made here extend way beyond this board. Some of my most trusted confidants are here and I love them dearly. If you sift through all the posts, you will find some life changing gems, just ignore the stuff that does not appeal and move on.

As Dunno says, there are some boards that he and I are a member of that would horrify you, this place is TAME.
 
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My #1 rule for any forum of any topic - take everything you read with a grain of salt and you have to have thick skin.

I have been around this board for a little while now and my dd has risen through the levels over the years. The way I look at this board now is completely different than I did when I first joined. I no longer post my dd's meet reports on the Parent's forum, nor do I really start any threads, but I do read the board everyday and really just respond to threads that have been created by others. I try to relay to others what I have lived through already in this crazy sport. DD is now 14 and just finished her 1st yr of L9. She did compete at Easterns and is now training L10. Our family has been involved with this sport for over 10 yrs now. We are a rare breed in that dd has only been at 1 gym EVER.

When dd was a level 4 or 5, I couldn't understand why the Optional parents were so laid back and just accepted the crazy way things worked in the gym. To me, as a full-time professional myself, I considered the gym "fantasyland." The lack of communication, what appeared to me to be un-organization just never would cut it in the "real" world. BUT, as long as dd was progressing, still loving gym and happy then I kept my mouth shut. I usually just let things ride and only speak up when safety is an issue. I have had 2 conversations with the HC over the 10 yrs about safety and each time, my thoughts have prevailed. I will admit 1 conversation was heated, but it was needed at the time.

I have very strong relationships with my fellow Moms. We are a tight knit group, for outsiders we probably do come off as such. We understand each other, we know what each other is going through. We can talk about our girls injuries, skill accomplishments and goals without people looking at us like we had 3 heads. My dd's teammates are just as close as us Moms are. It's a good group. They are competitive with each other (we had 12 girls on our L9 team this past season.) They were the L9 State Team Champions. Every one of them walk out onto the competition floor and feel like they can win every event and AA. BUT when they don't and another teammate does, they are just as excited for them. We cheer each others girls on and are genuinely happy and excited when they hit a fabulous routine. We are also sad and console each other when one of the girls fall or doesn't have her best meet.

The bonds that have been built between the girls and us Moms are life lasting. The girls do tons of things together outside the gym. It has basically been that was from the beginning. It's so easy because the girls all have the same crazy schedule and are off at the same times. Just next weekend, we are hosting a "Pre-Surgery Bash" pool party and sleepover. My dd is scheduled for surgery on 6/21 for her elbow, due to the gym. Not many outside of the gym would understand this kind of party, but the girls are looking forward to it and are excited.

I do not consider what I write on this board as criticism, just my view point. As a reader, you can take it or leave it. But for a newbie, I am someone who have traveled down the road that they are now starting to walk.


isn't what's in bold the truth! preach!!:)
 

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