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paks, jaegers, tkachevs, gingers

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JenFen

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Hi,
Just wondering if anyone can give me some drills and ideas on any progressions for the pak salto, jaeger, tkachev, ginger.

Have trouble finding much info abouot these moves.

We have one girl currently working the pak, we started out on to fat mats bit higher than the low bar, and have progressed to her doing it onto the low bar with mat over top and coach spotting each side.
Was going well, but she has done extra training at another gym around the country and has input which has seen the pak go backwards. We had been teaching it with less of an arch. This other coach was teachign more of an arch, which has ment that she is now chucking her head back.

Where should her feet be aimed at when letting go of the bar, and where should her shoulders be positioned on landing on the low bar.
We have thought so far her feet should be in similar position tot hat of a back giant, and when she lands on the bar, her shoulders should be pretty much overt he top of the baar so she can planche over the top to get a kip out of it.

We are currently going into comp season here in NZ so these moves will not be going in this yr, but would be good to have some info so when we go back to working them she has a chance of at least putting in the pak and starting the new skills next yr.
Any help on these moves would be much appreciated.
 

TDiver

Member
Jul 21, 2007
133
TN
Tkatchevs, Jeagers

Hey JenFen,

I have trained tkatchevs and jeagers and many of the girls at gym have done paks and a few geingers.

For the tkatchevs we did a quite a few drills.
-On tramp we do a seat drop into a backhandspring, but instead of going over in the back handspring we land short and pop off or hands to go fowards into a stomach drop.
-We have a black tube and we have the girls do a handstand with their backs facing the tube. They drop down to the tube so they land on their backs and then pop off and rotate fowards so they land behind the tube with their hands on it, just like they would to catch the bar.
-On the bars we have them do tap swings and do the hollow arch thing and then let go and rotate to land on their stomachs in the pit.

I'm sorry if I didn't explain that well, it is hard to without a video.

For jeagers:
-We start off by just doing tap swings to like a front flyaway to get them comfortable before starting from a front giant. When I learned it, I was catching the jeager from three tap swings before I even did it with a front giant.

For Pak Salto:
-They do drills from the pit bar onto a resi with a mat as high as the bar first. Then progress to the bar with mats all the way up and a stingmat on top, and just slowly take down the mats.

Hope it helps, i know it's hard to understand anyways but I tried.

-Tori
 

Valentin

Coach
Coach
Nov 12, 2007
376
USA
Hi JenFen

Where in New Zealand are you? Don't hear of to many girls working on these skills around these parts.
I will try to reply to your post with some more drills later on.
 
H

hammy

Guest
I competed a Geinger. I've seen it taught a few ways, but both of the ways consisted of teaching a fly away half first, then completing it earlier and higher and what not. When I was taught them, I was just kind of thrown into them--In other words, my coach just told me to do a fly away half--then he had me twisting earlier and what not.
 

ACoach78

Coach
Coach
Feb 22, 2007
112
USA
For the Pak...if hanging under the bar = 0 degrees and a handstand on top of the bar = 90 degrees, then I'd probably try to have the feet around 55-60 degrees depending upon the swing dynamics of the gymnast and their size.

I prefer to see the skill float. I think it should release with the toes up (very similar to an overshoot release) and then the gymnast should open up the chest as she reaches for the bar. At release, I teach to spot the feet and after release to reach back and look for the bar.

Ideally, the shoulders should be over top of the bar when they land as that allows them to catch in a strong, protracted position and to control their descent into the glide or whatever is to follow.
 
J

JenFen

Guest
Hey,
Thanks everyone for their replies. its all a help.




Valentin
In Nelson.
Think Kay introduced us in wellington clinic last year. This gymnasts was working the pak at that clinic.
 
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Valentin

Coach
Coach
Nov 12, 2007
376
USA
Hi JenFen

The teaching of these skills is actually and usually much more simple and straight forward then the basics. The trouble with them is that they require good physical conditioning, and good basics.

Lets tackle the jaeger, because that is easiest of the skills to learn and teach, and you have had help from Ken and them for the Pak.
So for the jaeger you should have
1- A good front giant tap. Having a front giant with a tap action rather then a hecht action is definitely a bonus and a help. She should be at least able to do the tap action (for the front) so that she gets to 45deg above the bar, before she dishes in preparation for a normal tap swing going forwards (a little confusing here). Reason for this is because she needs to release able to release with her hip (approximate estimate of CoM) when inline with the bar, along with having enough power in the tap to continue CoM going up, so that she can come ontop of the bar on the catch rather then try to reach for it from underneath (not that she will catch it anyways like that)

Aside from that its drills and practice
1st drill. 101 front layout flayways, until she can do front flayaway in layout she won't stand a good shot at the jaeger. Much easier when you (as a gymnast) are used to releasing and flying straight, and forward..and risking hitting your feet on the bar.. For the psychy having a front layout flayway that like a normal flaywas rises and then comes down will help immensly
2nd drill on tramp she should work on doing backdrop front 1/2 front pike to front drop. WIth the arms reaching (draw a line on the tramp so that is the bar.. teach her to spot for the bar. This drill and be made harder by having to do back drop 1 and a half front pike to front drop. Its an orientation drill. This drill can also be done in straddle front, but pike is easier. However IF she is going with the straddle jaeger then do it in straddle and pike.
3rd Drill... its more of a conditioning and fear removal drill. Get her to stand on the single rail (you can do this first on a ground parallet). Do a pike jump going back to open out into a front drop (onto soft matting of course) as she tries to catch the bar. Once she can do this do it on the high bar into a pit. This will get her confidence about being close to the bar for 1, 2 it will teach her how to catch (hands onto of the bar, not reaching to grab), and it will also be a strengthening drill because ok she can catch but what if she is not strong enough to hold on when she does.... hence why you should train this (this applied for all release skills)

The are more drills for this skill, but these are the only 3 core drills in my opinion.
From here Once the gymnast has a good enough tap, correct body shape on the release, i would get her to do front flayway in pike of straddle 1 and 1/2 to front drop onto crash mats. Ideally in a foam pit. Work on her spotting for the bar and building up confidence. At this point its ok is she is flying way to far back to be able to catch. You dont want her to catch anyways at this point. As she get more confidence she needs to work on releasing a little later and a little later which will bring her closer and closer to the bar (doing the same drill to front drop). Once she is getting quite close and it looks like she might be catching it soon, i would put knee pads on her heels. This is incase she does release a fraction to late, and her heeds impact the bar. This does hurt a lot!, and can cause injury to the tendon, which not only stuffs up everyone (from a fear factor) but now she won';t be able to tumble either. So take the precautionary steps to prevent this.

The key is in the release timing to making it into a consistant release and catch. Doing the actual somersault by the time she is in a position to catch will not even be an issue.

Hope that helps

Next time ..the Tkatchev.
 
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