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Junior Olympic Qualifying to Nationals

coachp

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I’ve watched this debate for a few years and the one thing I’ve never understood (and obviously I have no dog in this fight) is why are there so many age groups anyway? They manage competition at the Olympics with 16 year olds against 30+ year olds (thank you Chuso!). Wouldn’t it make sense to have two age groups- junior and senior- and then take a top percentage from each region? Every region would still be represented based on the number of competitors they have.
Because competing kids against each other in different sessions isn’t fair or feasible . The last session of the day ks
Always the highest scoring . And we want to bring more kids to nationals
Not less. Now a fair solution would be a percentage and to lie each
Region i it’s own even groups . But again Nooooooo......
 

MILgymFAM

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Because competing kids against each other in different sessions isn’t fair or feasible . The last session of the day ks
Always the highest scoring . And we want to bring more kids to nationals
Not less. Now a fair solution would be a percentage and to lie each
Region i it’s own even groups . But again Nooooooo......
I’m not so sure that particular brand of fairness is key- there is no way to ensure fairness or judging across regions at all, but the scores still stand to send girls on. Maybe more judges training instead of just accepting their scores are so flawed.
 

GAgymmom

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I’m not so sure that particular brand of fairness is key- there is no way to ensure fairness or judging across regions at all, but the scores still stand to send girls on. Maybe more judges training instead of just accepting their scores are so flawed.
Judges are highly trained. It’s not like you can just decide “I’ll be a judge!” And go out there. There are tests, and clinics, and volunteering, and fees, and more tests. Level 10 judges have to have judged at least 2 years before being allowed to test for 10, and most regional judges are rated National anyway which takes a minimum of 10 years to achieve, 8 of those while holding a level 10 rating.

Redrawn regions would help some, but there will always be more populous regions against less populous.
 
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MILgymFAM

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Judges are highly trained. It’s not like you can just decide “I’ll be a judge!” And go out there. There are tests, and clinics, and volunteering, and fees, and more tests. Level 10 judges have to have judged at least 2 years before being allowed to test for 10, and most regional judges are rated National anyway which takes a minimum of 10 years to achieve, 8 of those while holding a level 10 rating.

Redrawn regions would help some, but there will always be more populous regions against less populous.
People are always saying that judging varies from place to place, and having seen it in person in various regions, I agree. I understand the training- we’ve known many judges, but there are still variations- it’s not judging by computer after all.
 

GAgymmom

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People are always saying that judging varies from place to place, and having seen it in person in various regions, I agree. I understand the training- we’ve known many judges, but there are still variations- it’s not judging by computer after all.
you Suggested better training for judges at level 10 Regionals. This is not a debate about judging variations, i was explaining how highly trained the judges there are.
 
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raenndrops

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People are always saying that judging varies from place to place, and having seen it in person in various regions, I agree. I understand the training- we’ve known many judges, but there are still variations- it’s not judging by computer after all.
Not to mention, that a lot of judges have that "Thing" they give extra focus to ... to either the detriment or favor of different gymnasts.
There is one judge that we (as a team) want to see on Vault but not on Beam because our scores go up if she is on vault but down if she is on beam - except for YG, who is the opposite of the rest of the team.
I could go on, but I won't. ;)
 

3girlsmom

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The age old argument - every year! Such a fun debate!
It really is! I have been questioning it myself. Has there ever been talk of doing by percentage? Take a certain percent of girls let region. So if you have more level 10’s in your region then more girls have the opportunity. We are in region 3. It is crazy how many get left home with great scores.
 
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skschlag

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I think the issue with percentages (which I think is a fabulous idea btw) is that you can't do the region teams at every level with 7 gymnasts. KWIM? The region team structure would have to change.

The men's side just reinstated JO region teams at L10 this year. 1 15/16 and 1 17/18 team per region. Top 5 JO boys make the team. So, even if they were not in the allotment (which is a percentage), they could make nationals and participate fully, as a part of hte region team. Not sure how that would work for the girls, but you could have a minimum, like each region gets 5 per level, and then do a percentage above that..
 
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3girlsmom

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Gotta keep in mind though that even in the same region kids can stay home in one age group with a higher score than a kid that qualifies in another. Being in a group of 19 vs 34 is quite a difference and those sizes are both in region 5. No matter how you slice it no one way is gonna make everyone happy
Yes so true! Valid point. Within our region there were groups that varied tremendously in numbers within level 9 and 10. Ranging from 13 to 26 respectively. Would you happen to know why they wouldn’t alter the birthdate ranges? I believe they are set after all states have completed state competition. So it seems they could just take each the number of 10’s in region and split evenly. I’m sure it’s not that easy and I by all means don’t know the ins and outs but thought you may.
 

3girlsmom

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No one said it was "easy". Easier perhaps -- yes, it can be easier. Hard to dispute that for R4 and R2 where some of the age groups don't even have enough to field a team of 7. It's not personal; it's just raw data.
And every region will have those amazing girls like you listed where it wouldn’t matter if they were up against 8 or 58 they would still be on top. They are definitely in a league of their own and super talented.
 
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3girlsmom

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It really is! I have been questioning it myself. Has there ever been talk of doing by percentage? Take a certain percent of girls per region. So if you have more level 10’s in your region then more girls have the opportunity. I realize this isn’t a set number but could work and still represent all regions.
 

duyetanh

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I saw there was a really tough Jr. B group in region 8 and the region 1 Jr. As were HUGE!!! How many did region 1 Jr A take to JO nationals?
All regions take the same regardless of number in group...7, as long as they score 35...region one and eight had some doozy sessions where girls almost getting 38s were denied....
 

gymbeam

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All regions take the same regardless of number in group...7, as long as they score 35...region one and eight had some doozy sessions where girls almost getting 38s were denied....
Some age groups in some regions got to take more than 7 to fill spots that other regions couldn’t. See the chart posted earlier.
 

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