WAG Question About New Level 6

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GymMom67

Proud Parent
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If I am reading it right, it looks like the new Level 6 is not required. Looks like you can skip straight from current Level 6 to Level 7 with no required mobility score.....am I reading that right? If I am, is that level always going to be that way.....there if they need it, but not required? Or is that just for this year?
 
You are correct, it is not required. I can't imagine it would be required in the future either, given that it is not really any more difficult than the new level 5.
 
Is there anything required in new 6 that would be more difficult than the new 5?

To me beam looks more difficult - new L5 is a slighly watered down version of current L6...new L6 requires a 180 leap/jump (IMO this is a pretty advanced thing on beam, takes a lot of courage and practice to do it well at a meet) and a flipping dismount (front/back pike/tuck) where the new L5 dismount is essentially the old L5 dismount (easier than the old L6 dismount). I'm not sure what group 5, 6 or 7 acro elements are, so that may be the same...

To me floor looks the same - there is discussion that the 150 leap is a typo, and should really be 180, and if so, that would make it harder, but not by much.

I don't understand the bars at all, and it actually may be easier than old L6, but I don't know what "group 3, 6 or 7" is... I need to find the link that explains that.
 
Basically for bars the group 3, 6, or 7 means you can do a clear hip, stalder, or giant. I believe it's the same as old Level 7 except for the number of B's. A clear hip above horizontal counts as a B. Giant is a B.
As for beam, the acro elements are pretty much the usual - cartwheels, walkovers, etc.
 
Bars: New L5 requires cast to above horizontal and a clear up above horizontal. So, that would fulfill the one B, the required circling skill and the cast requirement of L6. An "A" dismount is required which is the same or easier than the L5 requirement.

Beam: Full turn requirement is the same for both levels. Yes, the 180 requirement for the leap or jump is higher than the 150 required at L5. Only one acro skill is required at L6 and you have more options than the L5 choices (i.e. if a gymnast has issues going backwards). The 180 leap or jump also fulfills the B skill requirement. L6 only requires an "A" dismount which says it can be with or without hand support, so not necessarily a salto.

Floor: Possibly a higher degree of split in the jump/leap. Otherwise the full turn is required at both L5 and L6. You could actually do the old L5 tumbling pass of ROBHSBHS to fullfill the series requirement, although you would need to have a FT, BT or arial somewhere in the routine. However, L5 requires both a FT and a BT and some gymnasts have problems with one or the other of these and at L6 you only have to have one or the other. You do have to have a B skill, but that would be pretty easy to accomplish with dance.

I really think that most gymnasts will either score out of L5 and compete L6 or just skip L6 unless they need an extra year to get ready for L7 skills.
 
I feel a little dumb having to ask, but we don't have a current code of points at our gym, and I'm not sure we'll be getting a code for the next round of routines....

Could someone give a sample "new" level 6 bar routine? I realize that the new code has not been released....but a basic outline of a routine would be awesome.

I'm asking because with the old level 7, I've seen kids do:
kip, cast, squat on, jump to high bar, kip cast, free hip, giant, layout flyaway.
And I've seen kids do:
Kip, cast, free hip, kip, cast, squat on, jump to high bar, kip, cast, free hip, tuck flyaway.

Obviously there is way more room for deductions on the second routine because it contain more skills...

Is it safe to assume that with the new level 6, kids could do the current level 6 routine? And...I think I might be confused about the dismount. Does the current level 5 tap swing 1/2 turn dismount qualify as a legit dismount for the new level 6??
 
Some may raise an eye brow over this, but I try to avoid looking up stuff in the code. That practice has led to embarrassing moments when somebody points out an *obvious* over sight, but I like teaching right up to the edge of a childs ability without respect to the code or the JO requirements. What I've accomplished through this philosophy, is that each child makes more progress during a three year period than their peers from teams that coach to the code.

When you get down to it..........

There are things in the code a child will have difficulty with that become easier simply by spending more time in the sport. Kinda like the adage "If you spend enough time at a barber shop, sooner or later, you'll end up with a (free?) hair cut." Ya see, some skills can be allowed to grow in the background of a total gymnastics experience that is driven by skills a child can hang their emotional hat on.

Sure, I'll follow the "general outline" for each kid, but will lean heavily toward beam with a bwo-bhs series even though the child can't stick a full turn. I'm rather work the series and let the full turn grow, with some help, on it's own. If it comes time to compete with a wobbly full turn they're certain to fall on, well, what's going to cost them more, falling after a 1/1 or failing to get the second foot down at the end of *that* series or, worse, an easier series crafted hastily to satisfy the requirement. I feel that's the best strategy to prevent the use of a "second choice" series chosen because those "pesky" requirements kept a child too busy to get the "big deal skill" ready for the season.

Bottom line....... work with the child, not the code.
 
Some may raise an eye brow over this, but I try to avoid looking up stuff in the code. That practice has led to embarrassing moments when somebody points out an *obvious* over sight, but I like teaching right up to the edge of a childs ability without respect to the code or the JO requirements. What I've accomplished through this philosophy, is that each child makes more progress during a three year period than their peers from teams that coach to the code.

When you get down to it..........

There are things in the code a child will have difficulty with that become easier simply by spending more time in the sport. Kinda like the adage "If you spend enough time at a barber shop, sooner or later, you'll end up with a (free?) hair cut." Ya see, some skills can be allowed to grow in the background of a total gymnastics experience that is driven by skills a child can hang their emotional hat on.

Sure, I'll follow the "general outline" for each kid, but will lean heavily toward beam with a bwo-bhs series even though the child can't stick a full turn. I'm rather work the series and let the full turn grow, with some help, on it's own. If it comes time to compete with a wobbly full turn they're certain to fall on, well, what's going to cost them more, falling after a 1/1 or failing to get the second foot down at the end of *that* series or, worse, an easier series crafted hastily to satisfy the requirement. I feel that's the best strategy to prevent the use of a "second choice" series chosen because those "pesky" requirements kept a child too busy to get the "big deal skill" ready for the season.

Bottom line....... work with the child, not the code.

I get what you're saying, ANSI don't really disagree, but I can't have kids competing the new level 6 without a routine that meets the requirements as outlined by USAG...

The proposed outline for bars is:
5 A's and 1 B with special requirements being: one cast to a min of horizontal, one bar change, one element from group 3, 6, or 7, and a dismount valued at a minimum of A...

Since I don't have access to a JO COP, how do I know what skills are in group 3, 6, or 7? How do I know if a skill is vaulted at an A?

My guess is that a 2013-21 level 6 routine could consist of: kip, cast squat on, jump to high bar, kip, cast above horizontal, free hip, flyaway...I have no way to confirm this as I have nothing to look at. Also, we have a kid who HATES flyaways, but is strong enough on the other events to move forward. That being said, is there another dismounting option for the new 6 on bars? Or is a flyaway it?
 
And then what about just using the new level 5 bar routine as the new 6 optional routine? Would that meet requirements? Or can I add a counter swing if the kid can't flyaway right from the free hip?
 
Here is my response to a multitude of things I have seen posted above:

The 1/2 turn dismount used at new L4 (old L5) is not a value part and would not count for the A dismount requirement at new L6.

Casts don't count as a skill, unless they are to handstand (there is no A cast in the Code.)

Doing a clear hip on the HB straight into a flyaway at new L6 is going to make it difficult to have 5 As and 1 B.

An additional counterswing would result in a .3 deduction for extra swing.

The L6 routine meeting all the requirements would be: kip, cast, clear hip (at horizontal or above to achieve a B), kip, squat on, long hang kip, cast, flyaway. If the clear hip in this routine does not receive B value part credit the only result would be losing .3 from the SV, it would still fulfill the special requirement.

An undershoot would work as a dismount at L6 as it is an A dismount and the requirement is just for a value part dismount, not a salto dismount.

Giants are not found in groups 3,6,7.
 
Here is my response to a multitude of things I have seen posted above:

The 1/2 turn dismount used at new L4 (old L5) is not a value part and would not count for the A dismount requirement at new L6.

Casts don't count as a skill, unless they are to handstand (there is no A cast in the Code.)

Doing a clear hip on the HB straight into a flyaway at new L6 is going to make it difficult to have 5 As and 1 B.

An additional counterswing would result in a .3 deduction for extra swing.

The smart L6 routine would be: kip, cast, clear hip, kip, squat on, long hang kip, cast, flyaway.

An undershoot would work as a dismount at L6 as it is an A dismount and the requirement is just for a value part dismount, not a salto dismount.

Thank you :)
 
Here is my response to a multitude of things I have seen posted above:

The 1/2 turn dismount used at new L4 (old L5) is not a value part and would not count for the A dismount requirement at new L6.

Casts don't count as a skill, unless they are to handstand (there is no A cast in the Code.)

Doing a clear hip on the HB straight into a flyaway at new L6 is going to make it difficult to have 5 As and 1 B.

An additional counterswing would result in a .3 deduction for extra swing.

The L6 routine meeting all the requirements would be: kip, cast, clear hip (at horizontal or above to achieve a B), kip, squat on, long hang kip, cast, flyaway. If the clear hip in this routine does not receive B value part credit the only result would be losing .3 from the SV, it would still fulfill the special requirement.

An undershoot would work as a dismount at L6 as it is an A dismount and the requirement is just for a value part dismount, not a salto dismount.

Giants are not found in groups 3,6,7.

This is very helpful. A couple of questions:

1) On the HB, after the kip and cast, are you saying go right into the flyaway? Or would there be tap swings first?
2) Isn't this the same as the current level 6 bar routine, minus baby giant and cast height requirement?

Thanks!
 
This is very helpful. A couple of questions:

1) On the HB, after the kip and cast, are you saying go right into the flyaway? Or would there be tap swings first?
2) Isn't this the same as the current level 6 bar routine, minus baby giant and cast height requirement?

Thanks!

My thoughts exactly...yes, you would cast and flyaway without an additional tap...

I'm sure everyone keeps saying it, but to me, the routine outlined above seems easier an more likely to score well than the compulsory version with the baby giant
 
Yes, the requirements, I think, for the new level 6 bars are easier than the new level 5 bar requirements. BUT remember that the new level 6 will be judged using the optional execution deductions. That means that the same two casts(low and high) to just above horizontal that would receive no deduction at the new level 5 would get up to 0.3 deduction each at new level 6 because every optional cast that doesn't go to handstand receives an amplitude deduction.
 
Yes, the requirements, I think, for the new level 6 bars are easier than the new level 5 bar requirements. BUT remember that the new level 6 will be judged using the optional execution deductions. That means that the same two casts(low and high) to just above horizontal that would receive no deduction at the new level 5 would get up to 0.3 deduction each at new level 6 because every optional cast that doesn't go to handstand receives an amplitude deduction.

Wait, what? Again, apologizing for my lack of knowledge on optional levels, but...

WHY is the "special requirement" a cast to a minimum of horizontal, when meeting that requirements would incur an automatic deduction?! Makes absolutely no sense at all. Why wouldn't they just make the requirement "one cast with a minimum of vertical?"
 
It is similar for level 7, where the cast requirement is only 3/4. There is an "expectation" in the code that all casts at the optional level should achieve handstand(at least within 20 degrees of vertical). Even gymnasts at the lower optional levels should be working towards this. I think they set the special requirements lower at level 6 and 7 so the gymnasts won't get completely hammered(ie 0.5 for missing the requirement plus execution deduction) while still working towards this standard.
 
Please, gympanda, feel free to correct me if I have given any incorrect info. I am still in the "studying" phase, looking to pass the level 7/8 judging test.:)
 
Maybe this will be a deal breaker for me then. None I my kids are casting to a handstand yet, just to 3/4 or just above that. This means that their bar routines will start from a 9.4...

Now I don't know what to do...go with new 6 or stay in compulsories. I guess I can always do new 6 and keep working on getting handstands...since we work on handstands anyway

Since I don't have a code to reference, are there any more things like the casting to a handstand that I should know about for the other events?
 
Don't worry about it. You will see LOTS(I would bet the overwhelming majority) of gymnasts without casts to handstands at the new level 6, so your gymnasts won't be behind the other gymnasts they will compete against. Just work towards good form on all the elements and work towards getting that cast higher.
 

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