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John

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I believe having a sanctioned meet simply mean giving USAG 140 dollars and having a meet director.

For those interested:

Domestic Sanction Procedures and Frequently Asked Questions
Q:
I want to hold a sanctioned event at my gym. Where do I begin?
A: The first step is to complete the 2018-2019 Request for Sanction form. This form is available online by clicking here.
Q: Can I register for a sanction online?
A: Yes, the meet director of the event may submit the sanction request online. Instructions can be found here.
Q: What are the eligibility requirements for a person to be a meet director of a sanctioned event?
A: In order to be a meet director of a sanctioned event you need to have the following:
  • USA Gymnastics Professional member with all of the membership requirements fulfilled (background check and safety/risk management certification)
  • Meet Director must be affiliated with a Member Club
  • Meet Directors must have the discipline level(s) for the sanction event requested. Example: a men's sanctioned event, must have a meet director
  • Meet Directors requesting sanctions for Women's or Acrobatic events must have completed meet director exams
Q: What is the processing time for sanction application
A: Sanctions placed online will be available immediately. Sanction sent via fax or mail has a processing time of 3-4 weeks. Sanction application must be received at least 30 days from the date of the event. USA Gymnastics cannot guarantee that the certificate of insurance will be received in time for those sanction application is received less than 30 days prior to the event. Sanction applications that are faxed/mailed in less than 30 days from the date of the event will be assessed a $25 late fee.
Q: How many disciplines can I place on one sanction?
A: Only one discipline is allowed per sanction. Example: If there is a men's and women's meet being held on the same day at the same location, each meet would be submitted on a separate sanction request form and sanction fees paid for both.
Q: What are the domestic sanction fees?
A: Domestic Sanctions are $140.
Q: I have applied for a sanction. Where will the sanction report form be sent?
A: Once the sanction application has been processed the sanction report form will be available online. Sanction report forms will be available immediately for sanction placed online. Sanctions that have been faxed or mailed please allow 3-4 weeks for the report become available online. You may request a report form to be mailed or faxed by contacting the Member Services Department.
Q: How do I cancel a sanction?
A: The original sanction report form must be returned to the USA Gymnastics National Office with the words "CANCELLED" written on the form. Please note: Sanction fees are non-refundable and non-transferable.
Q: Can a sanction be postponed?
A: Yes, if a meet cannot be held due to poor weather conditions the meet may be postponed. Please send in writing by mail, fax or email the date that the sanction should be changed to along with the sanction number. You will be faxed a new sanction reflecting the new dates in 48-72 business hours.
Q: How do I make a change to a sanction that has already been submitted?
A: A meet director and/or sanction administrator has the ability to update levels, competition start/end dates, and the location of the event online. Any other sanction edits must be submitted in writing via fax, email or mail to the following:
  • Fax: 317-692-5212
    Email: sanctions@usagym.org
    By Mail:
    USA Gymnastics
    Member Services Dept.
    130 E. Washington St. Ste. 700 Indianapolis, IN 46204
Q: My meet is today and I forgot to sanction. Can I still send in a request for sanction?
A: Yes, sanction may be placed online and be available to print immediately. Same day sanctions that are faxed will be assessed a $25 late fee. Certificate of Insurance may not be available if requested less than 30 days.
Q: What do I do with the sanction report form?
A: Please follow the sanction report instructions below to ensure the proper reporting procedures are followed.
  • Step 1: Post the certificate of insurance at the event location.
  • Step 2: Ensure that all participating coaches and judges sign in and provide their member number and rating. Please note: all participants in the sanctioned event MUST have a current USA Gymnastics membership.
  • Step 3: Return the original completed sanction report form to the USA Gymnastics National Office
  • Step 4: Return a copy of the completed sanction report form, meet results and competition fees to the state/regional chair.
  • Step 5: Please be sure to keep a copy of the completed sanction report form on file for your records.
Q: Where do I send the scholarship money?
A: All Men, Trampoline and Tumbling and Acrobatic sanctioned events are required to send in an additional scholarship fees. Please see below for the fee schedule for each of these programs:
  • Men's Program Scholarship Fund: $1 per participating athlete
  • Trampoline and Tumbling Program Scholarship Fund: $1 per participating athlete
  • Acrobatic Gymnastics Scholarship Program: $5 per participating athlete
Please send a copy of the original sanction and scholarship fees to the following address:
USA Gymnastics
130 E. Washington St.
Ste. 700
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Q: Someone at my sanction event was injured. What procedures should be followed?
A: In the event of an injury of an athlete/coach/judge/spectator please follow the procedures below:
  • Step 1: The meet director must fill out and complete the appropriate sections of the accident report form. The sanction number, date on the event and meet director signature should be included on the form.
  • Step 2: The person and/or (if the individual is under the age of 18) responsible party (parent/guardian/coach) of the injured person must fill out the appropriate portion of the accident report form.
  • Step 3: A copy of the accident report form should be retained by both the meet director and the person and/or (if the individual is under the age of 18) responsible party of the injured person.
  • Step 4: If the accident involved a competing gymnast, keep the gymnast from activity for a full 24 hours.
Q: Where should the accident report form be sent?
A: It is the responsibility of the person injured and/or (if the individual is under 18) responsible party (parent/guardian/coach) of the athlete to submit the completed accident report forms to the insurance company that files the claim. Please note: USA Gymnastics does not receive the accident report form. Sending the accident report form to USA Gymnastics may cause delay in claims processing. Please submit the accident report form to the following:
American Specialties Insurance Services
PO Box 459
Roanoke, IN 46783-0459
*Any and all questions regarding accident claims should be directed to American Specialties at: 1-800-566-7941
Please feel free to contact Member Services for any other question or concerns.​

USA Gymnastics Member Services Department
Phone Hours: Monday -Thursday – 9:00 a.m.-5:00 p.m. ET
Friday 9:00 a.m.-3:30 p.m. ET
1-800-345-4719 toll free
membership@usagym.org
 
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mls529

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I appreciated the OP question -- the approach to JO and Xcel differs by gym and your questions are really good ones.

To me, these forums are interesting because every gym, every region/state, and each program has a different approach. My DD moved from JO to Xcel last year, and typically us Xcel parents are complaining that Xcel is the red-headed stepchild of the gym. It is certainly a more recent phenomenon that you are seeing Xcel sold hard to parents vs. JO (i.e. telling Golds they are level 5s, etc.) We had the exact opposite experience -- our old HC hated Xcel and would threat Xcel on gymnasts with blocks or other struggles.

It is my personal opinion that JO will be the best path to the highest levels of gymnastics including NCAA for quite a while. Many states only have a handful of Diamond gymnasts, and while it is definitely growing, it doesn't seem likely for it to come close to the JO numbers -- or talent -- that you see at JO levels 9 and 10.

I don't entirely understand why gyms "cheat" on the mobility scores and move up meets/in-house meets, but I agree that it is not worth getting worked up about it. It will all end up being a disservice to the gymnast -- if she is being pushed along faster than she is ready, optionals (or platinum/diamond) is going to be a real struggle.
 

wandrewsjr

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Any mobility score achieved must be achieved at a sanctioned meet. Even in-house meets must be sanctioned to use a score for mobility. Scores will be checked, so if a gym doesn't sanction the meet and have a 2-judge panel, the scores can't be used for mobility.
.
Two judge panels are not required for level 1,2,3,4 & 5 local sanctioned meets. One judge panels can be used for mobility from levels 4 and 5. This means one judge can judge the entire meet, if it is small enough.

Two judge panels are required for all sanctioned meets level 6 and up, state qualifying meets for level 5 and up and for all state meets.

This info can be found in Rules and Policies, General Info section of chapter 8(JO Comp Program) pg81-82 and chapter 5 (Meet Officials) pg39-40.
 
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mommyof1

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So essentially you have a qualified meet director, the check clears you have a sanctioned meet.

Score outs done.

Ca ching
Can any meet directors or judges here comment on this idea? Our club's in-house meet is always sanctioned. As a parent volunteer, I get the impression that a sanction comes with a lot of requirements (e.g., meet director cannot also judge at the same meet, must provide meals for judges, must give awards out to a certain place), and that there is some sort of oversight to ensure that these requirements are met.
 

wandrewsjr

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Can any meet directors or judges here comment on this idea? Our club's in-house meet is always sanctioned. As a parent volunteer, I get the impression that a sanction comes with a lot of requirements (e.g., meet director cannot also judge at the same meet, must provide meals for judges, must give awards out to a certain place), and that there is some sort of oversight to ensure that these requirements are met.
A sanctioned meet could be achieved with a certified meet director and one judge(two judges for level 6 and up). The meet director would apply and pay for the sanction and both she/he and the judge would have to sign the sanction and submit to USAG certifying that all USAG rules and policies were followed. Judges can be paid per diem instead of having meals provided. Awards are not required for level 4 and below, there is a minimum number of AA places that must be awarded to level 5 and up.
 

ldw4mlo

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Can any meet directors or judges here comment on this idea? Our club's in-house meet is always sanctioned. As a parent volunteer, I get the impression that a sanction comes with a lot of requirements (e.g., meet director cannot also judge at the same meet, must provide meals for judges, must give awards out to a certain place), and that there is some sort of oversight to ensure that these requirements are met.
Its not really an idea its the actual rules.

Two judge panels are not required for level 1,2,3,4 & 5 local sanctioned meets. One judge panels can be used for mobility from levels 4 and 5. This means one judge can judge the entire meet, if it is small enough.

Two judge panels are required for all sanctioned meets level 6 and up, state qualifying meets for level 5 and up and for all state meets.

This info can be found in Rules and Policies, General Info section of chapter 8(JO Comp Program) pg81-82 and chapter 5 (Meet Officials) pg39-40.
Above is where it gets more specific. And way different if you are having a full on meet with other teams present vs a lets have a judge come in and score these girls out.

A sanctioned meet and one that counts as a qualifier for state meets are very different things as the requirements for different levels.

In fact, we don't always do all meets on our schedule. One of the things that go into my decision is, it is a state qualifier, not all are.

Mobility must be a sanctioned meet, it doesn't have to be a state qualifier.

A sanctioned meet at L4/5 score out needs a meet director present, 1 judge and a check.

Our gym doesn't have a qualified meet director (more ca ching), small gym, they don't want to add to their costs and pass them down to us.
So we do mock meets and have judges in to baseline the kids. But the only way for our kids to score out is an actual meet at another gym.
 

mommyof1

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A sanctioned meet could be achieved with a certified meet director and one judge(two judges for level 6 and up). The meet director would apply and pay for the sanction and both she/he and the judge would have to sign the sanction and submit to USAG certifying that all USAG rules and policies were followed. Judges can be paid per diem instead of having meals provided. Awards are not required for level 4 and below, there is a minimum number of AA places that must be awarded to level 5 and up.
So if something fishy were going on as described by previous posters (judging warm-ups instead of routines, etc.), then both the meet director and the judge(s) would have to be in on it and willing to falsify records, right?
 

John

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@mommyof1 it has been my experience that the meet director is sometimes the gym owner. The Gymanstics world in small and judges and owners all know one another. It is not a stretch to think they both sign the street and send to the usag all while thinking they are not doing anything wrong. The kids did the skills the judge judged the skills. I do not like what happens but as others have said you cant concern yourself with what you cant control.
 

ldw4mlo

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Not everywhere--in our state, any sanctioned meet is a state qualifier.
Every state qualifier would have to be sanctioned.

Not every sanctioned meet would necessarily be a state qualifier.
 

ldw4mlo

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@mommyof1 it has been my experience that the meet director is sometimes the gym owner. The Gymanstics world in small and judges and owners all know one another. It is not a stretch to think they both sign the street and send to the usag all while thinking they are not doing anything wrong. The kids did the skills the judge judged the skills. I do not like what happens but as others have said you cant concern yourself with what you cant control.
This and we are pretty much talking L4 and L5 here for the most part. Seriously if a gymnast is going to do 7 and above they will have to have the skills. They simply aren't going on without them.

And how they score out, impacts no one else. Of the many things to stress over in gymnastics and what goes on. This is a non starter.
 
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ldw4mlo

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This and we are pretty much talking L4 and L5 here for the most part. Seriously if a gymnast is going to do 7 and above they will have to have the skills. They simply aren't going on without them.

And how they score out, impacts no one else. Of the many things to stress over in gymnastics and what goes on. This is a non starter.
Timed out for edit.

And no its not right nor do I condone it.

It doesn't in anyway impact my gymnasts level, skills or scores. Its simply not anything to fall on my sword about.

All the Level 7s when she was 7 and 8s now that she is 8 have the same shot at individual meets at states and regional shots. No matter what they did in L4, L5 or Xcel and how they did or did not score out, in the past. They all have to compete the requirements.
 
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gymdog

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Every state qualifier would have to be sanctioned.

Not every sanctioned meet would necessarily be a state qualifier.
We don't have sectionals anymore and we also don't have any restrictions on whether a meet has to be in state to qualify to states. So if they compete in any sanctioned meet after the last state meet I guess, but generally if you were going to stay in a level your first meet wouldn't be before Oct, its a state qualifier for our state's purposes.

A lot of states still have sectionals for compulsory. This is another thing thats random. VA dropped it when we got the new routines/levels. In our region, I'm pretty sure NJ still has sectionals but I don't think MD, PA, DE, WV do. Some states also say your state qualifying score has to be achieved in state.
 

Curlyfry7

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And anyone who knows of an improper score out has the ability to report it. To what end? Really whats the gain/loss? They kids still have to compete where they end up. So lets close down a gym over a L4/L5 meet. Lets tell a kid she is out of gymnastics over a L4/L5 meet.
.
I have known about this situation for several months and have not reported it for this exact reason.....I am not trying to ruin the gymnastics careers of any little girls!

However, it does bother me....first because this is plainly cheating, and the gym knows it...they told the parents not to post any videos on any social media in order to prevent any questions. And I have zero tolerance for cheating. I have concerns that if it ever does come out, could there be consequences for these girls, even a few years from now?

Second, this gym struggles once girls get to optionals, and I feel this probably plays a role. So the gym is not truly looking out for the best interests of its gymnasts. And I have to wonder WHY they feel they need to do it this way?? The girls were very disappointed in their first meet this year.
 

Along4theRide

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She would not have had to have been held back. If she would of been it is likely a gym policy. As you have the ability to score out of a Level. So if you have the skills you score out. You can even score out of 2 levels at the same meet.

We have 2 girls on the older side at our gym. They scored out of L4 and L5. Now L6s. Kids are happy, parents are happy, coaches are happy. Now instead of 2 small groups of 5s and 6s, usually needing different sessions. There is one larger Level 6 group. All training the skills they are ready for.
No. She gained skills asymmetrically. She would have been required to compete only level 3 her entire 1st 2 seasons because she was missing skills on 1 event. Not a gym policy... It's a compulsory requirement of Usag. The flexibility of Xcel gave her the ability to compete at the top of her abilities on every event, even though she was "behind" in some ways. It was the right path for her.
 

moogacat

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No. She gained skills asymmetrically. She would have been required to compete only level 3 her entire 1st 2 seasons because she was missing skills on 1 event. Not a gym policy... It's a compulsory requirement of Usag. The flexibility of Xcel gave her the ability to compete at the top of her abilities on every event, even though she was "behind" in some ways. It was the right path for her.
We had a similar situation even though my daughter has had little interest in JO. Xcel is great for kids with asymmetrical skill development. My daughter came from a rec-only gym at age 10 with Gold-level skills on three events, but they did not teach vault at all. She was building that event up from the ground floor. She did a season in Bronze and Silver each, and this year tested out of Gold and is competing Platinum. Her vault is still her weakest but she is at least competitive with it. The flexibility of Xcel allowed her to compete some of her higher-level skills on the other event while meeting minimums elsewhere.
 

ldw4mlo

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Second, this gym struggles once girls get to optionals, and I feel this probably plays a role. So the gym is not truly looking out for the best interests of its gymnasts. And I have to wonder WHY they feel they need to do it this way?? The girls were very disappointed in their first meet this year.
Again, not that I condone it.

If its not your gym, not your business. If it is your gym and it goes against your code and expectations its time to consider moving elsewhere.

I am sure there are many reasons the gymnasts struggles when they get to optionals at that gym. While a not by the book score out might be part of it, I am sure its the least of it.

Of course they likely have the parents buy in to rush them to optionals. Personally I wouldn't let my daughter compete a level she couldnt do safely. So I would not let her rush a score out. Now disappointment is an entirely different matter. Optionals gets harder. Disappoint at times is part of gymnastics for all but a very select few. And even the select few have bad days/meets
 

Curlyfry7

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Again, not that I condone it.

If its not your gym, not your business. If it is your gym and it goes against your code and expectations its time to consider moving elsewhere.

I am sure there are many reasons the gymnasts struggles when they get to optionals at that gym. While a not by the book score out might be part of it, I am sure its the least of it.

Of course they likely have the parents buy in to rush them to optionals. Personally I wouldn't let my daughter compete a level she couldnt do safely. So I would not let her rush a score out. Now disappointment is an entirely different matter. Optionals gets harder. Disappoint at times is part of gymnastics for all but a very select few. And even the select few have bad days/meets
I completely agree....the fudging of score out meets is not the crux of the problem. And we are looking elsewhere at the end of the season as I won’t be part of it.

I can’t say the girls that are affected by this are being unsafe...it is not my daughter’s level, although a friend’s daughter is in it. So while not my exact business, I still don’t like to see kids upset. And the parents were, IMO, (and we all know what that’s worth, right ) fed a bunch of stories, and trusted that the gym was making the right decision. Maybe it was, and this initial season at optionals will be just a bump in the road. But I don’t think any of them truly understood how rough this season would be.
 

Laura0531

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It’s really nice that you know everything and everything is standard everywhere. I actually do know the meaning of in between. All levels of JO and Xcel compete the same season where we live. There is no in between season. I’m not guessing either, and you are rude.
Our XCEL and JO season are also the same.
 
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