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For Coaches Release skills taught on low bar?

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bpatient

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Her bars coach kindly suggested that my daughter watch the Olympics next week with an eye towards choosing the release skills she'll want to learn for Level 10. While that's very exciting (and it seems to be an excellent way to motivate her), it may be that since the gym doesn't have a bar pit my 72 pound dd should be nudged towards skills that can be introduced with a spot on the low bar. Her coach's first choice is a Hindorf; other than that, it seems that a Comaneci salto might work. Can you suggest some releases that might be suitable? Thanks.
 

gymdog

Well-Known Member
Coach
Former Gymnast
Proud Relative
Jul 5, 2007
5,121
If she's short enough to swing through with bent knees I suppose you have more options. I saw a video on youtube of a pretty small girl doing a geinger on the low bar. I'll see if I can find it. I don't know if the coach would have her trying to get this competition ready on the low bar or just means introduce, since while possible, it seems to me like it would be a lot harder to work out of any of these releases on low bar (then again I can't remember being 72 lbs ;)).

Edit: found it

[YOUTUBE]0VneuKxSdRo[/YOUTUBE]
 
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bpatient

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Thanks. I believe he intends to introduce the skills on the low bar and have her take them to the high bar when she's ready.

I think his idea was that, in the absence of a bar pit, it would be easier and perhaps safer to introduce on the low bar a skill that doesn't start out of a giant (e.g., if like the Hindorf it begins with a clear hip circle) even if its _supposed_ to finish in an extended position. I hadn't thought that she could compete with bent knees as in the video, but that might come naturally. . . .
 

gymdog

Well-Known Member
Coach
Former Gymnast
Proud Relative
Jul 5, 2007
5,121
I think his idea was that, in the absence of a bar pit, it would be easier and perhaps safer to introduce on the low bar a skill that doesn't start out of a giant (e.g., if like the Hindorf it begins with a clear hip circle) even if its _supposed_ to finish in an extended position. I hadn't thought that she could compete with bent knees as in the video, but that might come naturally. . . .

Okay, makes perfect sense, I just wasn't sure. The bent knee swing through to giant on low bar is allowed (at least in USAG JO) although the legs and body do have to be extended as the skill comes around the top of the bar (in the case of the baby giant which is done out of the straddle back in the example above). I don't know about swinging through with the body extended and knees bent into a kip like that (as she does out of the geinger) but maybe the skill was evaluated that way. I thought that was not acceptable technique into a kip but perhaps it is or they are just taking the deduction.

I actually saw another interesting video of a skill done at JO Nats, a straddle back flip around to catch into a bent knee front giant action on the low bar (switching hands on top). I found it particularly interesting because I was at a meet a couple of years back where a girl warming up a front giant into a regular straddle back unintentionally did something very similar to this skill and ended up peeling to her hands and knees in front the low bar (although she was not hurt and actually ended up competing her routine well enough to receive first place - at which point the announcer commented "despite trying to invent a new release skill during the warm-up" :)). I don't know how this has been evaluated or whether it was evaluated such that the way she worked out of it was legal.

[YOUTUBE]1rFOuD1agmE[/YOUTUBE]
 
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bpatient

Guest
Thanks for your reply. BTW, I was interested to see that the little girl shown in your first post above used the same bent-knee geinger on the low bar at Nationals that year, so she got pretty far with that technique.
 
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BlairBob

Guest
Even without a pit bar, I have seen a lot of transitional drills be trained in many gyms. Obviously, the releases on one bar or stuff like toe shoot front really necessitate a pit bar or access to one somehow.

Quite a few of these releases can be trained position wise on tramp as well. Not the same but helpful if you have a tumbl-trak with a bar or just a tramp.
 

lannamavity

Member
Sep 13, 2007
409
way out West
The one thing to watch is the versatility of a skill repertoire on bars.

A Hindorff is an upgraded version of a Tkachev...and a Comeneci is a really difficult and time-consuming release...and is extremely hard to spot, even on a low bar. Both releases usually take a year to learn properly.

I would always teach a Tkachev and Shaposhnikova first...then the Hindorff, so if this athlete grows considerably taller, or is injured (especially arm or shoulder) she's not stuck trying to do an "E" release because it's the only one she has trained...when there are related skills she could do with less difficulty.

With the right drills, a Tkachev, Jaeger and Geinger can all be taught without a pit. I have taught little ones a Geinger on a low bar cranked up to it's highest setting without too much trouble.
 
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hammy

Guest
A lot of skills can be taught on low bar and then tansitioned to high bar. There are also numerous release skills that start on low bar and transition to high bar and vice versa. A rather simple C level release skills is a clear-hip hect (clear hip on low bar, release, and catch high bar). One of my teammates competed a geinger type skill that released the low bar (facing towards high bar) and caught the high bar (a fly away half and catch the high bar).
 
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KBT

Guest
Does her gym have a spotting belt? That can help safely teach releases on high bar when you don't have a pit. Honestly, I think any release could be taught safely sans pit if you do the right drills and timers and have a good spotter.
 
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bpatient

Guest
Thanks.

Thanks for your helpful replies.

My dd seems to be taking a long view in that she wants to build on skills that she can practice on the low bar (e.g., Tkachev variations—although I naively thought until I saw the linked video that it would be difficult to learn on the low bar skills that started from giant swings) with the idea that she will move them to the high bar in the future. I’m impressed that my young daughter and her coach are thinking so far ahead. It seems that even in the absence of a pit bar or a spotting belt that she’ll be limited by her aspirations and her ability rather than by the equipment.
 
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