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Repeating a level after getting a score of 38?????

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cadybearsmommy

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Is this common? Now I've seen girls repeat after getting 35's and 36's (still good respectable scores) but I can see the benefit in that. However at a meet we had today, there were girls in our session from another team, and probably about half of their team are repeats from last year, that were all around state champions scoring in the HIGH 37's and even 38s! I'm trying not to be judgmental, I realize it's none of my business and I don't want my inner CGM to make an appearance. But is this a common occurrence or very unusual?
 

MILgymFAM

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There is one gym in our area with just absolutely over the top move up requirements. You have to be top 3 AA at states and be over a 37 to move up. They have many, many girls repeat 2-3-4 times. That alone was enough to let us know it wasn't a good place for us (my DD would never get out of L3). They are a hugely popular and large gym though, so the appeal is there for some and girls/parents suck it up year after year. My DDs gym has no official rules (besides the ones set by usag)- the HC decides doe each girl at the beginning of the season. This has its own set of frustrations and challenges. Different strokes for different folks.
 

flippin out

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What level? I mean maybe the girls did not have the required skills to move up. Just bc a girl scores a 38 in level 8, that does not mean that she was able to get her release on bars. Some gyms have set skills that are expected (separate from usag requires)....like all level 9s are their gym are expected to do X series on beam, and XYZ pass on floor...etc.

Also applies for level 4. Just because a girl was State Champ at level 3 does not mean that that girl was able to get her kip for L4.

And then there are the teams that just like to pad the teams. And the gyms who drop kids down a level at meets where there is a cash prize for super team. That's the shady side of it.....and there are some that do that. I don't know many, but do know a few.
 

cadybearsmommy

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Wow a cash prize? That would be amazing, we never see that around here lol.

It was Xcel Silver. There's such a wide range of skills you can use, and silver and gold overlap a lot in the skills that can be used from what I've seen. I have nothing against repeating in general. My dd had to repeat bronze, but she had bad form issues, and was scoring nowhere near a 38 her first year lol. And I've seen girls repeat before with perfectly passable scores, but I guess I've never encountered anyone with that exceptional of scores having to repeat a level. I definitely see what you are saying about skills though.
 

Taurus

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not to sound like a negative nellie but some gyms sand bag girls (to the kids detrement) to have high scoring teams which in turn brings more kids to their gym - if that's the case, be glad your Dd isn't there b/c I would think excessive repeating would be such a bummer to those qualified to move on. A good gym moves kids at more or less their own pace- happy kids+ happy parents = good gym
 

gymjunkie

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It helps when states adopt the policy that their score cannot count for a team trophy at state meet if they are repeating a level that they already scored 37+ at the previous state meet. I know of a few states that have implemented this rule.
 

cadybearsmommy

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It helps when states adopt the policy that their score cannot count for a team trophy at state meet if they are repeating a level that they already scored 37+ at the previous state meet. I know of a few states that have implemented this rule.
That sounds like a good rule to have! It doesn't keep the kids from repeating if they really need to (don't have the skills) but it keeps teams from holding them back without good reason.
 
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cadybearsmommy

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The funny thing is that I never would have known if I hadn't overheard some other parents from a different gym talking about it at the meet, but out of curiosity I looked when I got home and it was true. I figured it was just idle gossip at first.
 
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Gymmommy71

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It helps when states adopt the policy that their score cannot count for a team trophy at state meet if they are repeating a level that they already scored 37+ at the previous state meet. I know of a few states that have implemented this rule.
Yeah - I was going to say that I think there is a rule like this in our state. Something like if you got the state qualification score 2 seasons in a row, you are not able to repeat that level a 3rd time. I've heard there are a few gyms that purposely scratch gymnasts on an event or two at every meet to get around this (you know, bank them their first year so they get more years out of that level - kind of like "red shirting") - but that may be more for development purposes than winning medals. These same gyms also seem to have their athletes compete different levels during the year. Like they may do the scratch one event thing for 9 at some meets, but then do all the events as an 8 and go to 8 states.

I'd have to be very happy w/ the training and the long term plan that a gym has for my DD to stay there w/ some of those strict move up requirements described above. Top 3 AA at states? Repeating when you got a 38? Geesh. I at least hope these places are doing some serious uptraining for these gymnasts and parents sake.
 
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profmom

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That's the thing -- even if they are uptraining in the gym, it's difficult to balance the uptraining with the focus on competition. It's a very different thing to be doing skills in the gym than to be competing them. I know it's extremely frustrating to see the same kid up on the podium for a second or third year after clearly having mastered skills well beyond the level, but you have to realize that this will not benefit them in the long run. It leads to one of two paths -- either they move up so slowly that by the time your child reaches optionals, they are two age groups ahead, or at some point they have to try to skip a bunch of levels, which generally does not go well.

Gymmommy, I would guess that a girl who does 3 events at L9 and competes AA at L8 is not sandbagging or redshirting or whatever but rather is having significant struggles with one event. It's not at all uncommon for an upper level optional gymnast to be doing great with 2-3 events and struggling a lot with another. DD had a teammate a few years ago who was really, really stuck on beam, which kept her at L9 for something like three or four years, although she was super awesome on floor, with the national medal to prove it.
 

IreneKa

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the only thing that I can see is that with Xcel it covers quite a few levels. So maybe they scored 38s last year doing the BASIC routines, no extras. Now this year, they go to doing more of the maximum routines...
Yes, that's the thing with Xcel, the big range of skills in a level. You can compete Silver with the maximum routines, but you can compete Gold with the same routines too. Yet, some gyms choose to compete Silver, just so they can place higher.
We have a gym like that nearby. Their girls compete Silver 3 years in a row, after getting 36+ their 1st year, and 37+ their second year. During the 3rd year they get 38+, and winning all the meets, including states and regionals.
 
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ldw4mlo

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Sorry, sounds like wanting to stack the deck to me. Of course its opinion only.

And that would only be if they are doing the same skills in both seasons.

Because if they are doing higher skills (because there is that flexibility in Xcel) in the subsequent year then they are that good.

And of course the difference in training hours between gyms is huge. And then add in what you do with those training hours.

The reality there is always going to be someone, who trains more, trains harder, is repeating.

For us we focus on her performance and skills. Not scores and what everyone else does or doesn't do.
 

ldw4mlo

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You know injuries, not having skills I get all that.

And when you have girls, the OP said girls (as in multiple) from a team, one team. All getting 38s (previously scoring mid to high 30s), all repeating, that is in all probability stacking the deck.

Again, don't know what they did last year vs this year. But its stacking the deck.

Our old gym has a bunch of girls repeating 4 this year (I only know this because its our old gym, I know the girls). These girls were probably not all that ready for L4 last year with scores in the high 20s, low 30s. This year they are repeating and scoring more like 34-36.

But they aren't going from 37s last year.
 
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CanAmGymMum

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We have a girl repeating level 4 this year after scoring a 37.6 last year at state, with a fall. But, she's afraid to do a back walkover on beam. She's slowly working through her fear and maybe she'll be level 7 next year. Our club definitely does not have a history of holding kids back, but in some circumstances, it's the best option. Sometimes, even kids who are excelling, need some extra time so that the mental aspect of the sport can catch up with the physical...
 

cadybearsmommy

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You know injuries, not having skills I get all that.

And when you have girls, the OP said girls (as in multiple) from a team, one team. All getting 38s (previously scoring mid to high 30s), all repeating, that is in all probability stacking the deck.

Again, don't know what they did last year vs this year. But its stacking the deck.

Our old gym has a bunch of girls repeating 4 this year (I only know this because its our old gym, I know the girls). These girls were probably not all that ready for L4 last year with scores in the high 20s, low 30s. This year they are repeating and scoring more like 34-36.

But they aren't going from 37s last year.
Yeah I definitely see what you were saying. It wouldn't have even struck me as unusual if the girls had been scoring even like 35's-36's and repeated. Or if it was just one girl. But it was like 6 girls lol, over half of their team. So it just seemed strange. Apparently to a lot of people since the reason I took notice was b/c of hearing others talk about it. These girls are going to be criticized/scrutinized all season long for the actions of their coaches, if people are taking notice at the first real meet of the season it will only get worse. I kind of hate that for them and hope the actual girls don't hear the comments/etc that others are making.
 
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ldw4mlo

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We have a girl repeating level 4 this year after scoring a 37.6 last year at state, with a fall. But, she's afraid to do a back walkover on beam. She's slowly working through her fear and maybe she'll be level 7 next year. Our club definitely does not have a history of holding kids back, but in some circumstances, it's the best option. Sometimes, even kids who are excelling, need some extra time so that the mental aspect of the sport can catch up with the physical...
Again, one child is one thing.

If a lot of the team is not moving on, its a training issue or stacking the deck.

Again, disclaimer. I realize at higher optional levels kids may be a multiple years per level. But I wouldn't expect it to be a large portion of the team.
 
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BachFlyer

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Was it the first meet of the season? At our gym, EVERYONE repeats the previous season's level at the first meet, doesn't matter how good you did the year before. Most of them could be moving up at the next meet.
 
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